ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 19

[layer]

I mean, weren’t we discussing that in the first thread?

Also, the 2018 renovations aren’t when the third floor was added - that addition was done sometime before I was in it in the early 2000s. Moo

He didn't say anything about adding the third floor, he said it was remodled and expanded. And yes, this discussion has gone on from the beginning. IDK you were in that house, I need to pay more attention.

 

[theonewithallthequestions]

Has it been discussed that there were other people in the house that night for what seems to have been a pre formal party? With people coming and going, I’m leaning towards this being when and how the killer gained entrance to the house.

ETA: the party was on Friday the 11th. Sorry, my mistake!

 

[Curiosa20]

Entirely my opinion but I suspect a knife similar to this being used..
1. The coroner said it was hard to refer to the wounds as puncture wounds because of how large the knife was
2. It was indicated the killer would be proud of the knife and may have paid money for it
3. Stabbing 4 people multiple times without your hand slipping down on the blade with the volume of blood, whether or not you have gloves on would be nearly impossible - In my opinion, the knife had to have a mechanism that kept it in place, e.g. a handle like most martial arts knives will have.
4. If the killer was skilled with the knife, a martial arts type knife might indicate they had experience in combat sports, thus they were able to kill all 4.

Hi- could you provide a source for that statement by Coroner? Thank you

 

[layer]

Has it been discussed that there were other people in the house that night for what seems to have been a pre formal party? With people coming and going, I’m leaning towards this being when and how the killer gained entrance to the house.

Not that I've seen. Where did you find that?

 

[Petunia83]

They said they have M&K's ashes together. Sweet, but still increadibly heartbreaking.

I think the incomprehensible, senseless loss of each one of these lovely young people is incredibly heartbreaking in its own right. I realize people will have different opinions and views on Maddie and Kaylee’s ashes being together, but I personally think it’s a beautiful testament to the depth of their love and friendship, and the unbreakable bond between them… even in death. Again, I realize that not everyone will share my opinion, but I listened to a lot of what was said today, I listened to a lot of what was said about Kaylee and Maddie, they showed all of these pictures of them at all ages together, side-by-side, laughing and having fun and being the best friends they’ve been since they had apparently met in the sixth grade and had been inseparable since. While I don’t think any of us can say 100% how we would feel if we were the parents of these kids, but I can tell you that from my perspective, if it were me, knowing my child and her best friend were not alone, but instead had each other in the end… that would give me a great deal of peace. Frankly, it would feel like a tiny little blessing in the middle of a absolute hellscape. Of course this whole thing is indescribably tragic, but they died how they lived as BFF’s for 10+ years. Maybe M&K’s parents put them together because they were grateful their girls were there for each other in the end. Or, because it’s what they think M&K would’ve wanted, or maybe it’s just simply what felt right to them. Either way, I’m all for whatever brings them the most peace during this unimaginable time.

Rest in Peace…
Xana
Ethan
Maddie
Kaylee

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

He didn't say anything about adding the third floor, he said it was remodled and expanded. And yes, this discussion has gone on from the beginning. IDK you were in that house, I need to pay more attention.

LOL - ~you~ said those renovations included adding a couple of bedrooms

I just don’t see that his comments added anything we haven’t been discussing since the first thread. JMHO

LOL - I don’t think there’s an iconic Moscow location I haven’t been to! Consequence of moving to a small college & never leaving after graduation

 

[LucyOso]

Ahhh - you must have missed the hot story earlier today where a former tenant said every bedroom in the house had code lock doorknobs.

If that’s still the case, it’s a significant potential addition to the crime scene.

Yes! Indeed. Wow! If there are codes, I wonder how frequently they are changed. That could limit who had access for sure! Or if never changed, a lot of people could know.

 

[Friday Fan]

E was at his sister's sorority dance on the 11th.
The 12th was the last home game.
I highly doubt that there would be formal on the evening after the last home football game
Additionally, the game started at 4 pm.

 

[lucidium]

Also the mayor ("crime of passion"; no further danger to public), the coroner (not everyone, apparently, in bed when attacked), and LE in general (the flip-flops on "targeted" alone reminiscent of the death throes of a hooked trout).

My point was that I believe LE is being criticized unfairly.

Mayor: Not LE. Plus, I've no reason to doubt either "crime of passion" or "no further danger to the public".

Coroner: Also not LE. To me, this is a minor detail from early in the investigation. She probably should have never shared those details with the public.

LE: Has been remarkably consistent (I realize no one else may share my opinion, but hear me out)

MPD did release a series of poorly written 'clarifications' this week, for which I blame the prosecutor. MPD has stated all along that they are the only official source for updates. So it was problematic when the prosecutor agreed to an interview. Predictably, everyone equated the prosecutor's uninformed and poorly worded answers with official MPD statements. Worse, the reporter mischaracterized those answers on camera.
At that point MPD felt obligated to correct the record and issued a series of hastily written 'clarifications' that added to the confusion.

Yes, they should have done better. However, no clarification would have been issued if not for the prosecutor's and reporter's failures.

LE has reasons for suspecting a targeted attack. They obviously believe it's important to keep the reasoning secret for the sake of the investigation. I support that decision.

 

[layer]

LOL - ~you~ said those renovations included adding a couple of bedrooms

I didn't say that, he did. "The house has been remodled and expanded, just to add a couple more bedrooms than when I was there." I just thought it was interesting since he had been the top legal officer in Idaho and had been in that house.

I just don’t see that his comments added anything we haven’t been discussing since the first thread.

Fair enough.

 

[blackbeary]

LOL - ~you~ said those renovations included adding a couple of bedrooms

I just don’t see that his comments added anything we haven’t been discussing since the first thread. JMHO

LOL - I don’t think there’s an iconic Moscow location I haven’t been to! Consequence of moving to a small college & never leaving after graduation

You, being a resident of this town, in the past have leo or town leadership downplayed crime, or certain deaths, due to it being a college town, not wanting to alarm the public or it's reputation as being a safe place to send your children to live?
Also, successful colleges provide a living to countless families not in a metro area.

 

[GmeCS]

There is a possibility he realized he gave away too much about tracking perp and changed it to victim. MOO

That was my take as well.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

I didn't say that, he did. "The house has been remodled and expanded, just to add a couple more bedrooms than when I was there." I just thought it was interesting since he had been the top legal officer in Idaho and had been in that house.

Fair enough.

We must be looking at different articles, which might explain things!

Unless my eyes have completely failed (not impossible), I’m not seeing the quote here:

Former Idaho prosecutor who visited house where students were murdered reveals killer's possible path

 

[theonewithallthequestions]

E was at his sister's sorority dance on the 11th.
The 12th was the last home game.
I highly doubt that there would be formal on the evening after the last home football game
Additionally, the game started at 4 pm.

Yeah just realized this after seeing Kaylee’s November 11th post. My mistake, sorry! I always forget lategramming is a thing lol.

 

[Helechawagirl]

Also the mayor ("crime of passion"; no further danger to public), the coroner (not everyone, apparently, in bed when attacked), and LE in general (the flip-flops on "targeted" alone reminiscent of the death throes of a hooked trout).

Maybe this is all part of a misdirect…or a way to cya during prosecution?

 

[Aquarian]

Ethan and his sisters would not have identical DNA. Genetically they are only siblings. They are not identical, because they are not the same sex.

Actually I believe they could be identical, though that is rare.

 

[Hexe]

Does anyone find it odd that Ethan’s family and Xana’s family did not attend either of the two vigils/ceremonies together? Just something I noticed today.

They are grieving, dealing with massive trauma and shock. I am not surprised they don't want to spora in public and deal with frenzied media.

 

[Hexe]

Actually I believe they could be identical, though that is rare.

No, multiplets of different sex cannot be identical.

 

[Petunia83]

Very true. Not only that - professional reporters have, on multiple occasions, misstated what is written on MPD's press releases! It's an impossible task for LE.

There is also a discrepancy between what MPD releases in print, versus what they say verbally to the media, specifically what we hear from the PIO, Chief and Capt. They have a messaging problem. Period. It’s clear as day since Wednesday, she has zero to do with the prosecutor so I’m not even going to go there. However, you do make a very fair statement about the press, and so-called professional journalists, so I agree with you 100% on the reporter thing contributing to the confusion as well… It’s 50-50… but, I will say that if you have a halfway decent brain your head, you’re able to quickly weed through their garbage and discern what you should and should not be paying attention to. And yes, the prosecutor getting involved was a mess. Here’s the thing, I’m honestly really not trying to be rude, but as a general rule, people are not stupid… And when you write and agree with things on here like this above, that this forum is just so full of amateurs, and then you get critical about the reporters, and then you attack anyone who has an unfavorable opinion about an action by LE, it comes off really arrogant and mean. Some people are here just because they care, some people are here because they are friends of the victims, some people are here because they are friends of the family, some people are here because they ARE the family, or they live in that town where there’s a crazy person on the lives… and they are scared to death. Not everyone here is going to be a super sleuth, as you seem to consider yourself to be… so try to be a little bit more gracious and instead of jumping all over people, trying to make them feel stupid, or making rude comments like the one above where the two of you are comparing the people in here to a bunch of amateurs (when in reality, keep in mind you could be offending some of the very people who are hurting the most from this… the people who are a lot closer to the heart of this tragedy than you are and are here looking for answers, or some thing to give them peace or some thing to lessen their fear) — instead of doing those other things above, please just ignore and don’t engage any people who may bother or annoy you. “Be kind to everyone you meet, for everyone is battling a great battle.”

 

[Sandy007]

Maybe that’s just it, we have a killer that doesn’t fit any categories or statistical designations.Think about it. It’s very easy to place offenders/killers into categories: organized vs disorganized/mass vs serial.Maybe it’s your neighborhood grandma who loves kids and dogs, makes their bed every day, goes to church every Sunday-a kindly old lady/man who lost their marbles one night. Profiling is great, but it’s not everything. Sometimes solving a killing comes down to using common sense or something simple….usually it’s a power struggle or some kind of triggering event.

Maybe that’s just it, we have a killer that doesn’t fit any categories or statistical designations.Think about it. It’s very easy to place offenders/killers into categories: organized vs disorganized/mass vs serial.Maybe it’s your neighborhood grandma who loves kids and dogs, makes their bed every day, goes to church every Sunday-a kindly old lady/man who lost their marbles one night. Profiling is great, but it’s not everything. Sometimes solving a killing comes down to using common sense or something simple….usually it’s a power struggle or some kind of triggering event.

I agree with what you say. You and I are on the same boat.

The issue is that when analising the behaviour of the perpetrator, LE has to start from somewhere in order to undersrand what they deal with.

Profiling, being based in statistical data of various crimes, comes handy precisely because points to the highest probability, and also narrows, where and what to search for. I worked with data all my proffessional life, large databases, sql.

Profiling is not math where 2 + 2 is always 4. You have certainly noticed that each profiler points to some nuances of perpetrators' behaviour they believe are significant and differ from the other similar crimes, based on the personal knowledge abd experience of the profiler, trying to find a logucal way when explaining unimaginable to ordinary person crime. And this is the beauty of the profiling that atrracts me.

So, to wrap the long story short: you srart with what is common between different crimes based on the information available and then you start fitting where you see the discrepances, deviations in realising to the perpetrators behaviour in relation to the crime they committed

So, your input about the old grandma from next door as long as it is based on logic and high probability is as useful as input from a profiler, they complement each other.

At the beginning of my posting about this case here, I wrote, and I still think it may be the case, that the perpetrator holds some sort of maintenance, manual or delivery (Amazon, regular food or groceries) job, a job which gave him opportunity to meet the victims and even to enter the house without being a close friend
My idea was based purely on analysing who may have access to the house legally but would be difficult to identify. I also suggested to check if there were deliveries or maintenance works in the neighbouring houses, as some of the neighbours may innocently attracted the perpetrators attention to 1122 Kings Road by complaining that there are regular parties and people go in and out of house all the time.

Yesterday, I was reading about different types of serial.killers and specialists also point out that statistically is more likely that a serial killer may hold a manual job.

What i am trying to say that when experience, logic, common sense and statistics join the forces together, profiling could be a very powerful tool helping to find and arrest the perpetrators.

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