ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 19

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I read today that the University of Idaho will not share the information regarding which students returned to campus and which haven't with LE. This is out of concern for student privacy.


Also strange:

'The University of Idaho is not formally tracking the which students are returning to campus'

each department doesn't collect data on student attendance of classes ( either in person or online?)
 
Being in public relations, I have noticed a number of things including the obvious inconsistent statements between the DA, LE and the Coroner, but I am not as bothered by that. It does not signal incompetency or a bothched investigation. What you have is three different organizations giving out inconsistent information. What it does show is inexperience dealing with the media. It's one thing to be interviewed by your local newspaper, but being interviewed by these NATIONAL cable channels can be very intimidating for someone with little experience doing media interviews. You also have people being interviewed who are not "sticking to the script. When a person being interviewed is nervous or intimidated, they start ad libbing, giving their own opinions, getting tangled up when they say something they weren't supposed to say and then, they say more trying to get themselves untangled. The spokesperson should have scripted talking points and they do not deviate from the script. They stay on point.

In a crisis, there should always be ONE spokesperson. In high profile cases, it should be the police chief or sheriff or the head of the state or federal bureau of investigation - typically, they will jointly coordinate to determine who will serve as the spokesperson and how and when information will be released.

Although many organizations have a public information officer which is what I was, that person should not be the spokesperson in a case this big. The PIO should handle written statements, coordinate logistics, handle media calls, requests for interviews, social media posts and drafting news releases. Unless your PIO is in on EVERY single detail and is savvy enough to know what to say and what not to say, that person should not be your spokesperson in such a high profile case. All official communications should be cleared through one primary information source.

The reasons this case blew up so big in the media are as follows:

1) Brutal, quadruple murder - it's a horrible crime that the public desperately wants to be solved.
2) November sweeps - There are 4 months of the year when television stations' ratings are measured. Higher ratings equals higher advertising revenue. Sweeps months are February, May, July and November. If you think of your favorite TV shows, they have their "cliff hangers" or biggest storylines in these months. The Fall season of TV shows usually starts in September and ends at the end of November. Then, the shows start again in late January and end in May. Sweeps is a BIG DEAL for EVERY TV news station.
Producers and reporters start working on investigative stories for November sweeps as early as August. With this crime happening in November, TV news channels had NO TIME to plan and investigate. They had to put stories on the air immediately. And now, that the story is so big, they have had to come up with new content EVERY night. Hence the intense media interest.
I have appreciated the reporter who posts on this forum - Bryan Entin (spelling?) because he is REALLY working the story. He is getting good interviews and staying on top of details, instead of just slapping a sensational story together to get it on the air as fast as he can. There are many reporters who will sell their soul for a BIG sweeps story because they want to make a name for themselves.The best reporters are those who gain the trust of the families or other sources and they treat that source with the utmost respect and never betray something they may have been told in confidence or off the record.
3) Attractive victims - it's unfortunate that victims of crime who are blonde and beautiful get more media coverage -- think of the cases of Natalee Holloway and Elizabeth Smart.
4) Victims whose lives were shared on social media - The social media accounts of the victims are a treasure trove of overshared information, photos, lifestyles, habits and friends -- all of this information allow reporters and the general public to scrutinize every detail of their lives.
5) TV dramas - These shows magically gather all the evidence, get it processed, determined who the perp is and solve the crime all in one hour. Thus, the general public expects cases to be solved in a short period of time - especially given the wealth of information available digitally today.

How Major Stories Unfold

1) These are the elements of a good investigative TV story - which is a VISUAL medium -- 1) a victim or someone who speaks for the victim such as family members, 2) a subject matter expert (hence the former FBI, former police talking heads that you see on cable, and 3) Interviews with #1 and #2 and photos and videos of the victims, the investigation, the memorials, etc.

2) There are sequences to a crisis that reporters will share with their audience: 1) What happened? 2) How did it happen? Why did it happen? 4) Whose responsible? 5) How do you prevent it from happening again?

What has surprised me about the media coverage of this case:

1) No police leaks:
Reporters CULTIVATE relationships with members of law enforcement year-round so that they can get information from a confidential source, a person who has asked to remain anonymous, a credible source, etc. There have been NO police leaks in this case which means that they have a TIGHT LID on information. By now, there could have been leaks about who the prime suspect is and details about the crime itself. But there have been NO leaks which is amazing.

Example, I worked for a County Manager (the highest paid county official). We had an inmate in our jail which was located ACROSS THE STREET from our office murder another inmate at 7 AM that morning. I (the PIO) FOUND OUT about the murder when a REPORTER called us for comment at 4 PM. I went to the County Manager's office to ask him about the murder and he had not been notified by the Sheriff, but he and I both found out about it from a reporter who had an inside source in the Sheriff's department.
 
We know the timeline of K&M

+in the bar through the evening
+on camera at the foodtruck buying food circa 1.30am
+gets driven home by designated driver
+arrives at the house between 1.45-2am
+makes numerous calls to J, last one just before 3am

What is unclear is X+E timeline, infact it's quite mysterious and conflicted

+LE say they were at party 8-9pm
+Xanas father says he spoke/facetimed them around midnight and they were watching movies
+Ethan friend says they txted at 2am and he's sure they were still at a party
+yet LE say they arrived home at 1.45am

It doesn't add up, LE need to solve the mystery of X+E night and the timeline of events JMO
Ethan's brother & sister were supposed to be at party with them until E & X left it. ( I posted the msm link about it early in this thread, will try & re-find that)
It doesn't clear-up the mystery but was just another chunk of information.
 
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Very interesting. I am curious too. Who was the guy in the flannel? What is his expertise? I know they are starting to receive some of the evidence results back from the labs, I wonder if it were some of the results that caused them to go back into the crime scene to collect more evidence? Maybe a very good sign. MOO
yes flannel guy could be any lab tech staff but without his white coat.
 
Being in public relations, I have noticed a number of things including the obvious inconsistent statements between the DA, LE and the Coroner, but I am not as bothered by that. It does not signal incompetency or a bothched investigation. What you have is three different organizations giving out inconsistent information. What it does show is inexperience dealing with the media. It's one thing to be interviewed by your local newspaper, but being interviewed by these NATIONAL cable channels can be very intimidating for someone with little experience doing media interviews. You also have people being interviewed who are not "sticking to the script. When a person being interviewed is nervous or intimidated, they start ad libbing, giving their own opinions, getting tangled up when they say something they weren't supposed to say and then, they say more trying to get themselves untangled. The spokesperson should have scripted talking points and they do not deviate from the script. They stay on point.

In a crisis, there should always be ONE spokesperson. In high profile cases, it should be the police chief or sheriff or the head of the state or federal bureau of investigation - typically, they will jointly coordinate to determine who will serve as the spokesperson and how and when information will be released.

Although many organizations have a public information officer which is what I was, that person should not be the spokesperson in a case this big. The PIO should handle written statements, coordinate logistics, handle media calls, requests for interviews, social media posts and drafting news releases. Unless your PIO is in on EVERY single detail and is savvy enough to know what to say and what not to say, that person should not be your spokesperson in such a high profile case. All official communications should be cleared through one primary information source.

The reasons this case blew up so big in the media are as follows:

1) Brutal, quadruple murder - it's a horrible crime that the public desperately wants to be solved.
2) November sweeps - There are 4 months of the year when television stations' ratings are measured. Higher ratings equals higher advertising revenue. Sweeps months are February, May, July and November. If you think of your favorite TV shows, they have their "cliff hangers" or biggest storylines in these months. The Fall season of TV shows usually starts in September and ends at the end of November. Then, the shows start again in late January and end in May. Sweeps is a BIG DEAL for EVERY TV news station.
Producers and reporters start working on investigative stories for November sweeps as early as August. With this crime happening in November, TV news channels had NO TIME to plan and investigate. They had to put stories on the air immediately. And now, that the story is so big, they have had to come up with new content EVERY night. Hence the intense media interest.
I have appreciated the reporter who posts on this forum - Bryan Entin (spelling?) because he is REALLY working the story. He is getting good interviews and staying on top of details, instead of just slapping a sensational story together to get it on the air as fast as he can. There are many reporters who will sell their soul for a BIG sweeps story because they want to make a name for themselves.The best reporters are those who gain the trust of the families or other sources and they treat that source with the utmost respect and never betray something they may have been told in confidence or off the record.
3) Attractive victims - it's unfortunate that victims of crime who are blonde and beautiful get more media coverage -- think of the cases of Natalee Holloway and Elizabeth Smart.
4) Victims whose lives were shared on social media - The social media accounts of the victims are a treasure trove of overshared information, photos, lifestyles, habits and friends -- all of this information allow reporters and the general public to scrutinize every detail of their lives.
5) TV dramas - These shows magically gather all the evidence, get it processed, determined who the perp is and solve the crime all in one hour. Thus, the general public expects cases to be solved in a short period of time - especially given the wealth of information available digitally today.

How Major Stories Unfold

1) These are the elements of a good investigative TV story - which is a VISUAL medium -- 1) a victim or someone who speaks for the victim such as family members, 2) a subject matter expert (hence the former FBI, former police talking heads that you see on cable, and 3) Interviews with #1 and #2 and photos and videos of the victims, the investigation, the memorials, etc.

2) There are sequences to a crisis that reporters will share with their audience: 1) What happened? 2) How did it happen? Why did it happen? 4) Whose responsible? 5) How do you prevent it from happening again?

What has surprised me about the media coverage of this case:

1) No police leaks:
Reporters CULTIVATE relationships with members of law enforcement year-round so that they can get information from a confidential source, a person who has asked to remain anonymous, a credible source, etc. There have been NO police leaks in this case which means that they have a TIGHT LID on information. By now, there could have been leaks about who the prime suspect is and details about the crime itself. But there have been NO leaks which is amazing.

Example, I worked for a County Manager (the highest paid county official). We had an inmate in our jail which was located ACROSS THE STREET from our office murder another inmate at 7 AM that morning. I (the PIO) FOUND OUT about the murder when a REPORTER called us for comment at 4 PM. I went to the County Manager's office to ask him about the murder and he had not been notified by the Sheriff, but he and I both found out about it from a reporter who had an inside source in the Sheriff's department.

bumping this

very illuminating, thank you
 
Thank you for this.

Brian Enton (sp?) also revealed to Ashley Banfield that the idea Kaylee or one of the other girls had a stalker was not a fact but conjecture on the parents’ part because they were all “pretty” girls and apparently LE once again stated to them that there is no evidence of an actual specific stalker of any of the girls.

I think that is pretty relevant as well.
Yes, but Brian is sort of only half right… I am not a huge fan of him I feel like he’s one of the reporters who’s not doing MPD any favors right now… Big fan of Ashleigh, Bryan isn’t always getting his facts straight. So the stalker claim did originally come from some of the girls friends, not the parents. From what I understand it was just a few girls, maybe even as few as two or three, they pretty much didn’t have any other information other than hey there could be this guy who’s interested in my friends kind of thing… But I mean come on, they’re pretty and that could happen just from meeting a guy in a single evening… some guy hits on you, he gives you the creeps, so you say something in passing to your friends, that at the end of the day very well may not mean anything when it comes to this case. That said, correct, the police have not been able to verify a thing related to that, where I have personally seen it blown into this big, loud declaration, is from Kaylee’s dad. I vividly remember mental noting this because before the stalker possibility emerged from the friends, I had heard Kaylee’s dad on more than two occasions talk about how his daughter was hyper vigilant and very aware of her surroundings because she knew she was a pretty girl and didn’t want that to ever cause any problems, and in the early few days there was another interview where he went on and on about how pretty she was. Then when that stalker theory came to light, at least for us in the public, the parents really seemed to grab a hold of that as fact, like you mentioned above, even though there’s been no evidence so far to support those claims. All I know is that right now, we know so very little it could be almost anything… ‍
 
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Yes, but Brian is sort of only half right… I am not a huge fan of him I feel like he’s one of the reporters who’s not doing MPD any favors right now… Big fan of Ashleigh, Bryan isn’t always getting his facts straight. So the stalker claim did originally come from some of the girls friends, not the parents. From what I understand it was just a few girls, maybe even as few as two or three, they pretty much didn’t have any other information other than hey there could be this guy who’s interested in my friends kind of thing… But I mean come on, they’re pretty and that could happen just from meeting a guy in a single evening… some guy hits on you, he gives you the creeps, so you say some thing in passing to your friends, that at the end of the day very well may not mean anything when it comes to this case. That said, correct, the police have not been able to verify a thing related to that, where I have personally seen it blown into this big, loud declaration, is from Kaylee’s dad. I vividly remember mental noting this because before the stalker possibility emerged from the friends, I had heard Kaylee’s dad on more than two occasions talk about how his daughter was hyper vigilant and very aware of her surroundings because she knew she was a pretty girl and didn’t want that to ever cause any problems, and in the early few days there was another interview where he went on and on about how pretty she was. Then when that stalker theory came to light, at least for us in the public, the parents really seemed to grab a hold of that as fact, like you mentioned above, even though there’s been no evidence so far to support those claims. All I know is that right now, we know so very little it could be almost anything… ‍♀️

agree

when I said previously that some bereaved parents are naturally more suggestible ( understandably grasping at any hope & info in the vacuum ) I'd also heard one of the parents repeat phrases which they'd possibly picked-up outside of official/ LE sources
 
My bad, you are correct. I don’t know if I was considering the identical issue, but now I get the issue at hand. Thank you for the correction.
Just to point out, even the identical twins do not have completely 100% identical DNA, there are deviations, albeit minor, that could be detected using modern DNA testing technology and help distinguish the twins.

Originating from a single fertilized egg, the identical twins later acquire unique genetic mutations. New advances in DNA sequencing are making it possible to pinpoint those mutations — and to tell identical twins apart. This kind of test could well determine which of the identical twins committed the crime or fathered a child (paternity tests)

 
Not all persons of interest are suspects. I see that there are some legitimate criticisms of its use, as it's not a well-defined legal term (unlike 'suspect'). So thanks, I learned something.

And you are definitely correct about it being used much more today than 25 years ago.
Richard Jewell, were he alive, and subsequently Steven Hatfill could tell you plenty about the danger of naming someone as a "Person Of Interest". Both LE and the media have great monetary incentive to refrain from using the expression publicly at all...
 
Yes! Indeed. Wow! If there are codes, I wonder how frequently they are changed. That could limit who had access for sure! Or if never changed, a lot of people could know.
Whoa. That is a big deal… good one! Let us know if you hear any more details!
 
I think the incomprehensible, senseless loss of each one of these lovely young people is incredibly heartbreaking in its own right. I realize people will have different opinions and views on Maddie and Kaylee’s ashes being together, but I personally think it’s a beautiful testament to the depth of their love and friendship, and the unbreakable bond between them… even in death. Again, I realize that not everyone will share my opinion, but I listened to a lot of what was said today, I listened to a lot of what was said about Kaylee and Maddie, they showed all of these pictures of them at all ages together, side-by-side, laughing and having fun and being the best friends they’ve been since they had apparently met in the sixth grade and had been inseparable since.
I watched that entire memorial today. It never occurred to me that anyone would find anything objectionable about it. They lived together, grew up together, went to school and college together, and died together. They belong together.
 
Whoa. That is a big deal… good one! Let us know if you hear any more details!
Actually, X's father went there just the weekend before the murders to "fix" a door lock for her. It's not clear if it was replaced or repaired or if it was her bedroom door or not. But there are photos of door knobs/locks that are not the former keycode locks.If you scroll to the 8:11 mark here you can see them:
Mother of slain Idaho student speaks for the first time
 
Your 911 call theory is more or less what I've thought all along. I suspect, however, that 'unresponsive' is a term the dispatcher used, not what the callers stated unprompted. LE obviously has reasons for wanting to keep the details private, and I think that's just fine.
8 times out of 10, these types of bedroom door locks in college housing automatically lock every single time you shut the door. Every time you go back inside you have to put the code in. Obviously we can’t say for sure which is the case, but it does lend credence to his theory.
 
Richard Jewell, were he alive, and subsequently Steven Hatfill could tell you plenty about the danger of naming someone as a "Person Of Interest". Both LE and the media have great monetary incentive to refrain from using the expression publicly at all...
Yes, i remember the case. Naming wrong person as POI could be costly not only in financial terms but also in terms of precious humans lives. Named as a POI but never charged with 2001 crime, Steven Hatfield filed a lawsuit in 2003, accusing the FBI agents and Justice Department officials who led the criminal investigation of leaking information about him to the press in violation of the Privacy Act. In 2008, the government settled Hatfill's lawsuit with $4.6 million annuity totalling $5.8 million in payment. Sadly, in 2008 S. Hatfield died of apparent suicide.

 
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