ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 21

[WildWest]

There's no way to go from the third floor balcony to the second floor ground level. The only exit from the third floor is on the second floor.

I've climbed both up and down off my second story porch at our previous home of 21 years for different reasons, not too difficult for a fit person to climb over railing and drop down to the ground.

 

[sifty]

I think he said 'didn't' but it sounded muffled.

Gray Hughs is a huge resource people.

 

[otto]

nope. I kept it very vague because it's only my opinion, no basis in fact, and I do not want to cause the mods any trouble or cause any more pain to any family/friends reading here by posting what could be a hurtful scenario that's just a product of my imagination.

If the opinion is unrelated to a media link, it's hard to follow. It's not that it isn't the right idea, just that there's no way to understand it without a media link to get grounded.


"In the absence of more concrete details from investigators, armchair detectives and internet sleuths have begun sharing their own theories about potential suspects. ...

Moscow's police department warned that "speculation without factual backing" has stoked "community fears" and led to false facts being spread."

BBC

 

[KPO]

The only reason I tend to think it’s a single perpetrator is because loose lips sink ships. If more than one were involved, someone would’ve opened their trap by now.

Agreed. Loose lips but also odd behavior, possible injuries, etc.

How does one go about finding a co-killer? If you try to seek one out, chances are that a few people have said no and you're on their radar. It baffles me that anyone could think that there are 2 perps. Obviously there's a chance, but it has to be so incredibly remote. And LE would certainly have a good idea if that were the case so that would really go against the whole "there's no threat" to the community.

 

[GA_Peach]

I think what K's dad was suggesting when he said that they killer didn't have to go upstairs is that either K or M was the intended target. He was implying that one girl was wounded much more than the other girl (we found out today that was K), and that girl was the target. His point was that the killer entered on the second floor, and if either E or X was the target, the killer could have just exited through the second floor sliding door that he used to enter. BUT the killer didn't immediately exit through the door. Instead, he chose to go upstairs (and not downstairs), and therefore, the intended target was on the third floor.

 

[Past Mortem]

Where I get stuck with the father claiming that the third floor victims had a different "manner or death" is with formal legal language. Reporters should know the difference between manner and cause of death classifications. They should have set that straight from the beginning of the interview. Instead, they appear to not understand that what he's saying doesn't make sense.

Both third floor victims' manner of death is homicide. Difference in cause of homicide deaths might mean one died instantly because of knife injury to vital organ and the other bled out.

... no "means of death"

I completely agree with you. I believe we’re all reading into this from a true crime buff stand point and not from that of a grieving father who has been thrown into this foreign world where every word out of his mouth is taken and scrutinised over and over for some deeper meaning.

IMO it could be any one of the above I.e. cause or manner but he doesn’t realise the difference or the fact the there is no ‘means’ in legal language. That’s why my personal theory around it is possibly one of the girls was attacked in a more aggressive nature. That could be a combination of ferocity, quantity and location of entry/other wounds.

I think we all need to take what the father is saying with a grain of salt at this stage which is why my thoughts around his ‘cold’ approach towards E and A and a possible link between them potentially being the intended target is all just my opinion around my ever-changing theories with this case.

 

[Friday Fan]

Most keypad locks lock automatically. The leasing company, as well as subcontractors such as exterminators would likely have access to the codes.

The apparent fact that X’s lock needed to be “fixed” suggests that there may have been issues of some sort with persons getting into X’s room.

I would like to hear what Xana's dad has to say. He specifically complained about the front door automatically locking and how they would get in house via an open sliding door. MLS listings don't show keypad locks in the bedrooms.


Xana's mom has never been to the house and I don't what type of relationship she has with her dad.

I would think he would have said something about a bedroom lock in his interview

‘She’s a tough kid’: Avondale father says University of Idaho student killed fought her attacker

The father is now struggling to understand how this could have happened.

www.azfamily.com

Google Photosz

UI Student Murders

 

[r3d-ros3]

This isn't necessarily a question of liability re: the University; however, if a student was on the University's radar for violent threats or behavior that could potentially implicate them in this crime, they will have to disclose this to LE. Hopefully, they are already in the process of ruling out these potential suspects. Previously, I linked the student who threatened other students with knives on campus in September as evidence that they would (and already have) ruled out some potential suspects quickly. Specifically, students who may not have criminal records, but students who have a record of disturbing behavior as it pertains to the University / campus life. (edit to clarify that LE ruled out the person involved in the knife threat -- but it does allude to the fact that the University is, hopefully, working through similar complaints)

 

[NuttMegg]

Why wouldn’t you kill your intended target first? You don’t know how much time you have in that house.

MOO

Yep. How would killer know that sidetracking to kill others first would not produce a ruckus, ie victims fighting back.

 

[WildWest]

Three years ago, when I was a junior in college, a freshman was stabbed to death near campus. Because it happened in a public area and not on-campus, there was nothing the university realistically could have done to prevent it and therefore they weren’t liable. The only real impact the murder had on the university was allowing students flexibility to defer final exams until the following semester and making more counseling resources available for those affected. Since the victims in this case were murdered in an off-campus residence, there’s nothing the university can be faulted for. JMO.

Same with (non murder) crimes at CSU Colorado, though they were on private land (residence and Frat/Sorority homes) vs public land. Campus police could assist in investigation but off campus crime was the City/Sherriff LEO's responsibility.

 

[Seattle1]

On one of the earliest interviews they did, her mom said that K was always on the lookout for bad guys, bordering on paranoid (my words). She said that she would call her and say someone's following her but then the person would go on their way while they were talking and they would laugh. It wasn't like she was saying she thought she had a stalker, it was more like she was saying K was very security conscious, not just naive and happy-go-lucky.

^^bbm

I remember this interview. IMO, I think Kaylee was the known drama queen of the family and I think when her mom shared the story about how Kaylee would frequently phone saying she thought she was being followed-- only to quickly rescind the comment and say the car turned at 7-11, I think she inadvertently planted the idea that Kaylee had a stalker where the allegation soon grew long legs.

(Searching statewide, LE could find no reports that neither Kaylee nor any friend/family member ever reported any suspicion or person believed to be a stalker). MOO

 

[warbuckle]

Ok this on my mind. I keep hearing that K was the target because her wounds were worse but I don’t understand why if she was the intended target the offender would go into M’s room? Seems like offender would’ve gone into her room. Perhaps found her in M’s room and still decided to carry out crime.

Other thing that bothers me though is X and M worked together right? If X changed her locks and M had K sleeping with her maybe it’s because X and M were worried about someone specifically from work. Employee or co-worker?

Idk, I know K’s dad is very upset but I’m not convinced K was the target. There is just so many unknown variables.

I mean honestly both K and M kinda look similar and I think it’s entirely possible killer might have been targeting M since it was her room and might have overkilled K my mistake.

Both X and M had someone sleeping with them that night, was it because they were scared? I’d like to know more about people connected to them.

 

[rahod1]

What if he killed the top floor first, went to exit second floor but accidentally woke up X and E? Therefore had to get them too. In this scenario, top floor still the target. Moo

All indications so far are that they were asleep when killed. My take is that this killer is very savvy with a knife and knows how to kill quickly. It appears all were killed in a compromised state, ie, while asleep. ERGO>> you have minimal skirmish all around. This is why those on the ground floor heard nothing. *SILENT BUT DEADLY* is the phrase that comes to mind here. MOO

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

Just like police often have informants in gangs, I predict that they have the same in some of N Idaho's extremist groups. People that may revel in rhetoric, but haven't yet done anything particularly illegal and would turn in vicious killers, just to keep focus off them.

I voiced my opinion from the start that imo it is a local, begrudging of one or all of the victims because of "free" lifestyle, possibly rejected in a bar where he hung out to "watch". He loves his knife, most likely had a cool sheath that bar patrons may recognize, maybe shows up on bar videos. Is practiced in butchering game. Would fit in any isolated rural area, but the extremist groups would be more aware of his fervent attitudes towards richie rich students, (in his opinion).

Imo

Are you proposing that an extremist group turned into vicious killers to "keep the focus off them"? Did they murder the 4 victims as a distraction?

I was thinking it was a young man that believes in free college education and resents the victims being able to afford the education and thinks the richie rich students are from capitalistic families of privilege. Some people see attractive young people going to college, seemingly living their best lives, and don't realize the hard work, sacrifice, and dedication it took to get there. I came from a poor family, I don't resent anyone else's success or blessings, but I know plenty of resentful people that feel entitled to what they didn't work for. I wouldn't really think they would murder someone because of it. MOO

 

[Curiosa20]

Based on Brian's report. New to me, but he seems to be pretty legit. Ties in to what papa G said about the wounds not matching.

Brian’s unsubstantiated report.
We could avoid approximately 60% of back and forth messages if we just add a MOO or IMO or phrase comments as a question instead of fact.

 

[Past Mortem]

I think what K's dad was suggesting when he said that they killer didn't have to go upstairs is that either K or M was the intended target. He was implying that one girl was wounded much more than the other girl (we found out today that was K), and that girl was the target. His point was that the killer entered on the second floor, and if either X or Z was the target, the killer could have just exited through the second floor sliding door that he used to enter. BUT the killer didn't immediately exit through the door. Instead, he chose to go upstairs (and not downstairs), and therefore, the intended target was on the third floor.

This is one of the many reason I love this forum, so many different theories and ideas all coming together.

I actually reach the opposite conclusion from his comment about the killer not needing to go upstairs. I see it that the killer was there on the 2nd floor and had successfully taken care of his target/s and because of that all her had to do was walk back out BUT something stopped him and lured him to the 3rd floor… a noise? Did K or M come partway down the stairs? Etc. and that then prompted the killer to make his way upstairs when he never needed to.

Almost like a parent just trying to make sense of their daughter being in the wrong place at the wrong time, thinking along the lines of “he had no intention of even going upstairs to the girls, he was done and that was that but they were unlucky and in the wrong place at the wrong time and were unfortunately witnesses”.

Again, this is all based off a grieving father who has suddenly been thrust into the spotlight and he is bound to say things that make no sense or are straight up incorrect. It’s interesting reading into his words as I obviously am too, but at the end of the day we shouldn’t use him as an official source with the final word.

 

[drmrgrl]

Ethan and Xana

View attachment 384941

At the beginning, DM video shows this image of the Sigma Chi frat house with the greek letters on it. What an interesting coincidence!

Video: Sigma Chi fraternity house where four Idaho students partied before being found dead | Daily Mail Online

It’s a creepy coincidence…one that brings to mind a disturbed perp.

 

[MCath]

So many things had to go just right for this person/s to be able to pull off this attack at this time if Kaylee was their target- which is almost 100 percent likelihood now imo. Since she was only in town this one night or weekend, to show off the car, they first needed to know she was in town (how, if the murder was planned in advance?), needed to know where she was staying that particular night, room and floor level, needed to either know the code to get in or the back sliding door to be unlocked, needed her of Maddie’s room to be unlocked as they were sleeping or know the code to enter, needed to there not to be too many extra people in the house or the bottom floor not to hear so no one would call 911. I would think it’s also most likely this would be someone who could not get her in a place or situation alone where they could attack. They must’ve been pretty comfortable with that house, the people in it, and felt like it was that night or never. Right?

 

[10ofRods]

IMO I think the killer knew the other two 1st floor roommates were out of town. Maybe he heard that earlier that week. Had no reason to go downstairs. IMO K was the intended target so he started on the 2nd floor because he wanted to make sure X and E weren’t alerted. Quickly killed them and proceeded to make his way to the 3rd floor. IMO maybe K wasn’t in her room so he went into M’s room where he found them both. Killed M and K woke when he started to stab her so the killer became triggered further resulting in overkill. This is just MOI and nothing more. Hope this is solved soon.

They were not out of town. They were sleeping on the first level and are the people who discovered the blood trail/bodies.

When were they out of town? I believe MSM is reporting that the first floor roommates came home at around 1 am and were sleeping?

 

[mayhem911]

The other major development on the News Nation special report from Idaho tonight was that K and M were in the third floor bedroom together. Source they did not reveal but they seem to have confirmed it.