ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 21

[Past Mortem]

Why wouldn’t you kill your intended target first? You don’t know how much time you have in that house.

MOO

It is my opinion that you would kill your target first unless confronted by another individual/s. If the killer was eliminating everyone else first as to make sure they didn’t alert the ‘true’ target, let’s say K as that’s where everyone is leaning, then why did the killer not go down to the lower level and kill the other 2 housemates?

IMO if K was the sole target yet he/she went to such effort to kill the others first then I would think the killer would spend more time with K or try to move her to a 2nd location. As awful as that is to consider, I can’t imagine they would go to the physical and mental effort of killing everyone else first only to kill bet almost instantly also.

 

[WildWest]

Not sure how accurate thus map is because
it has now been said the 2 girls on the 3rd floor were in the same bed.. The map shows them in separate rooms.. interesting to note the stairs from the 2nd floor lead right into the master bedroom where KG was labeled as victim #3 (if LE has determined the order of death correctly) so if both girls were indeed in the same room, the stairs led right to them.
As for the 2nd floor...just speculation but the bathroom is set outside of the room so if the murderer caught the boyfriend there, then it was just a matter of time before XK would come out to look for her bf. The map shows they were both in bed though.
I'm also wondering if maybe since the murderer came in thru the 2nd floor slider if they didn't even know there were 2 more girls sleeping downstairs.

MSN

That map is missing a whole floor level too beyond the location of the 3 floor bodies.

 

[NuttMegg]

Are you proposing that an extremist group turned into vicious killers to "keep the focus off them"? Did they murder the 4 victims as a distraction?

I was thinking it was a young man that believes in free college education and resents the victims being able to afford the education and thinks the richie rich students are from capitalistic families of privilege. Some people see attractive young people going to college, seemingly living their best lives, and don't realize the hard work, sacrifice, and dedication it took to get there. I came from a poor family, I don't resent anyone else's success or blessings, but I know plenty of resentful people that feel entitled to what they didn't work for. I wouldn't really think they would murder someone because of it. MOO

Actually I said just the opposite. Ie that if an extremist group discovered a vicious murderer in their group or community, it would be in their best interests to work thru informants to turn them in to LE.

ie "Turn in" not "turned into"

 

[Seattle1]

It doesn’t help because it’s incomplete information. X & E’s injuries could’ve been worse than K’s for all we know

MOO

Exactly. Just as it's possible that K had three wounds and M only had one.
I have to agree with the reporter that commented about in the dark, how would the killer even be able to tell the two girls apart? I very much doubt that I could. JMO

 

[watson1]

In civil cases, the burden of proof would be preponderance of the evidence (preponderance of the evidence), not reasonable doubt, and I suspect there will be lawsuits.

In fact, this Stanford case will stir some bigger questions, and I predict (as you've noted) duty, breach, cause and harm will rear its head in the Idaho case as well:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2022/12/01/education-stanford-death-lawsuit/

In my opinion, the University will have protection from liability because it happened off campus and they have Sovereign Immunity as a defense. (See: State Sovereign Immunity and Tort Liability ) What's more likely is the landlord gets sued for various alleged security deficiencies, inadequate exterior lighting, etc. A plaintiff Attorney will retain a security expert who will do crime mapping and point the finger at the landlord. Most commercial liability policies have $1 million limit/occurrence and it is likely this property, which is owned by an LLC with members with many other rental properties, have Umbrella/Excess insurance with multiple million dollar limits. (See: Negligent or Inadequate Security Causing Injuries ) Just my opinion based on experience of insurance and legal issues.

 

[Snoop Sister]

Most keypad locks lock automatically. The leasing company, as well as subcontractors such as exterminators would likely have access to the codes.

The apparent fact that X’s lock needed to be “fixed” suggests that there may have been issues of some sort with persons getting into X’s room.

Regarding keypad locks locking automatically - mine have a setting, which I can choose if I want an automatic lock. And, the codes can be changed on the main system. I am not sure if the students could do that themselves or would have to request such. I am not sure if contractors would have the codes for individual bedrooms. A temporary second code can be made in any keypad lock and can be deleted afterwards.

Perhaps X’s wasn’t functioning properly If she in fact did have a keypad lock.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Why wouldn’t you kill your intended target first? You don’t know how much time you have in that house.

MOO

imo, just a theory: because e was big and you would want to neutralize your biggest threat, and x was there, so again, had to do it. And if the killer had spent time planning/fantasizing, they would want to work undisturbed on the intended victim. We can't know what the killer was thinking or what he had planned. But given the fact that we're three weeks in and nothing, it does suggest IMO that this was planned, and he wanted to fully experience it. imo.

 

[WildWest]

One of them was a webslueth? On here? I wonder if Le has contacted the owners yet

SG mentioned on Fox this morning that his daughter would share stories she'd researched on sex trafficking. My mind went to the websleuth item as that and she was researching somewhere else than here.

 

[otto]

I completely agree with you. I believe we’re all reading into this from a true crime buff stand point and not from that of a grieving father who has been thrown into this foreign world where every word out of his mouth is taken and scrutinised over and over for some deeper meaning.

IMO it could be any one of the above I.e. cause or manner but he doesn’t realise the difference or the fact the there is no ‘means’ in legal language. That’s why my personal theory around it is possibly one of the girls was attacked in a more aggressive nature. That could be a combination of ferocity, quantity and location of entry/other wounds.

I think we all need to take what the father is saying with a grain of salt at this stage which is why my thoughts around his ‘cold’ approach towards E and A and a possible link between them potentially being the intended target is all just my opinion around my ever-changing theories with this case.

Reporters have a responsibility. Their headline says that two homicide victims had a different "manner of death", it makes no sense. Manner of death is homicide for both victims. Cause and manner of death have distinct definitions, crime reporters shouldn't be getting lost with legal language.

The father does confirm that there's a difference in how the 3rd floor victims died. He cannot say which of the victims had more injuries, but the fact that he knows this information suggests that it is his daughter. That is, Xana's parents would not be given information about Kaylee's murder, but Kaylee's parents would have been told if the injuries to their daughter were much worse than the others ... I think. Privacy would dictate who was told about the severity of injuries the one particular victim.


Fox News Video

 

[Dysfunkshun]

Idaho stabbing victim’s injuries ‘significantly more brutal’

Goncalves’ injuries were significantly more brutal than her best friend Madison Mogen, which may end up being a very important piece of evidence when it comes to determining who the target wa…

www.newsnationnow.com

 

[KPO]

This is one of the many reason I love this forum, so many different theories and ideas all coming together.

I actually reach the opposite conclusion from his comment about the killer not needing to go upstairs. I see it that the killer was there on the 2nd floor and had successfully taken care of his target/s and because of that all her had to do was walk back out BUT something stopped him and lured him to the 3rd floor… a noise? Did K or M come partway down the stairs? Etc. and that then prompted the killer to make his way upstairs when he never needed to.

Almost like a parent just trying to make sense of their daughter being in the wrong place at the wrong time, thinking along the lines of “he had no intention of even going upstairs to the girls, he was done and that was that but they were unlucky and in the wrong place at the wrong time and were unfortunately witnesses”.

Again, this is all based off a grieving father who has suddenly been thrust into the spotlight and he is bound to say things that make no sense or are straight up incorrect. It’s interesting reading into his words as I obviously am too, but at the end of the day we shouldn’t use him as an official source with the final word.

When I listened to just that one section of the interview, I absolutely thought what you think. But when pieced together with the rest of it, I believe he did mean the exact opposite.

And he kept saying that he's just using common sense to connect the dots. Common sense was that there was no reason to go upstairs unless that was the target.

Also, IMO, the whole "Alpha" part of the interview, he was asking for someone on the LE side to step up and admit that the girls upstairs were the target. He seems to trust LE much more so than he trusts the lawyers (no surprise there). He doesn't want to be the one connecting dots and doing interviews. He's tired and he can't take a break because he has no idea if the authorities are getting anywhere in finding a suspect. He wants someone in LE to be a man and take the lead in disclosing at least some of this information. Those poor parents need sleep.

 

[Bliss_Perth]

Ethan and Xana

View attachment 384941

At the beginning, DM video shows this image of the Sigma Chi frat house with the greek letters on it. What an interesting coincidence!

Video: Sigma Chi fraternity house where four Idaho students partied before being found dead | Daily Mail Online

you could see the Greek letters lit up behind Brain Entin in his last TV cross tonight also reminded me that Xana had a blue n yellow Flag on her wall near the bedroom door entry with the same greek letters. I thought it was cute because it was their initials.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

So hire more people.

LE has a million dollar budget.

The University itself is very wealthy, and could easily afford to offer a hefty reward.

I personally do not like the kind of powerful influence the U. has upon this case and over the investigators.

JMHO

There aren't enough recruits to lateral from other LE agencies. The process of recruiting LE candidates, testing, background investigations, etc, and putting them through the academy, then field training is more than a year. There is a shortage of LE officers all over the country. I know many who retired early due to being treated poorly by the media and public. No budget is going to expedite the process. MOO
I can't tell what kind of influence the U. has over the investigators, but a homicide investigation has established protocols, LE is not going to change the way an investigation is handled because of the U. MOO

 

[EmmieA]

This is one of the many reason I love this forum, so many different theories and ideas all coming together.

I actually reach the opposite conclusion from his comment about the killer not needing to go upstairs. I see it that the killer was there on the 2nd floor and had successfully taken care of his target/s and because of that all her had to do was walk back out BUT something stopped him and lured him to the 3rd floor… a noise? Did K or M come partway down the stairs? Etc. and that then prompted the killer to make his way upstairs when he never needed to.

Almost like a parent just trying to make sense of their daughter being in the wrong place at the wrong time, thinking along the lines of “he had no intention of even going upstairs to the girls, he was done and that was that but they were unlucky and in the wrong place at the wrong time and were unfortunately witnesses”.

Again, this is all based off a grieving father who has suddenly been thrust into the spotlight and he is bound to say things that make no sense or are straight up incorrect. It’s interesting reading into his words as I obviously am too, but at the end of the day we shouldn’t use him as an official source with the final word.

BBM

…a dog?!

MOO

 

[HL79]

They were not out of town. They were sleeping on the first level and are the people who discovered the blood trail/bodies.

When were they out of town? I believe MSM is reporting that the first floor roommates came home at around 1 am and were sleeping?

Sorry I thought a read somewhere that they had been out of town and returned around 1am. Apologies I’m new at commenting.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

In my opinion, the University will have protection from liability because it happened off campus and they have Sovereign Immunity as a defense.

we'll see. check out @10ofRods post. I'm not discussing this for reasons I stated later. Also, Section 6-903 – Idaho State Legislature

and I'm not reviewing it and breaking it down, but it's relevant.

there's a good summary here;

https://www.mwl-law.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/STATE-SOVEREIGN-IMMUNITY-AND-TORT-LIABILITY-CHART.pdf

Idaho Tort Claims Act.
Every governmental entity is subject to liability arising out of its negligent or otherwise wrongful acts or omissions and those of its employees acting within the scope of employment to the same extent a private person would be liable. Idaho Code § 6-903 (1976).

Idaho is more similar to WA than to some other states, for example.

 

[10ofRods]

Maybe to jurors during trial, but I wouldn’t think so otherwise.

Whatever goes into the legal record at trial will eventually be public.

Trials are public.

 

[HL79]

They were not out of town. They were sleeping on the first level and are the people who discovered the blood trail/bodies.

When were they out of town? I believe MSM is reporting that the first floor roommates came home at around 1 am and were sleeping?

Sorry I thought a read somewhere that they had been out of town and returned around 1am. Apologies I’m new at commenting.

 

[HL79]

Why wouldn’t you kill your intended target first? You don’t know how much time you have in that house.

MOO

IMO I thought about that also. This person may have wanted more time with the intended target. MOO

 

[Bliss_Perth]

SG mentioned on Fox this morning that his daughter would share stories she'd researched on sex trafficking. My mind went to the websleuth item as that and she was researching somewhere else than here.

That's interesting i wonder if anything was researched about people in her immediate area with a shady backgrounds that lived near by. Sometimes that's common knowledge in small towns.