ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 21

[layer]

If he was "unconscious" in bed, roommates wouldn't have known whether he was sleeping or unconscious, there would be no reason to call 911.

If there was no response to repeated knocking and phone calls, that would likely cause concern. If you don't/can't wake up, you are unconscious.

 

[layer]

If cause of death was Exsanguination, (bleed out), that could be caused from stab wounds, internal bleeding from damage (think broken bone that pierces something important), severe head trauma. All four might have died of Exsanguination. All four might have had one or more fatal stab wounds. All four may not have died of only stab wounds and still died of exsanguination.

I think about things like that because my friend died of "asphyxiation". Sadly, it was not just a pillow over her face but more than one type of asphyxiation to the point the autopsy was the only way to know the story. The autopsy still said asphyxiation, not asphyxiation by xxxxxx and yyyyy and zzzzzz. The autopsy report can be kind of clinical in an almost two dimensional way that doesn't explain the reality, IMO.

Now, maybe the autopsies specify exsanguination by laceration of xxxxxx for all four, which makes it seem like they all died exactly the same way. And maybe the reality of what you see in the funeral parlor doesn't match the emotionless words on a page. I know it didn't for me. JMO.

So, so sorry.

 

[al66pine]

Does anyone wonder if the University tries to downplay this and a new student gets injured by this same person for whatever reason, would the University (or even the city) be liable? It's seems like a really bad idea to try and sweep this under the rug to me.

@Ghostwheel Thx for your post.
Agreeing --- if Uni. is trying to sweep these homicides under the rug, it's a bad idea.
This post does not address the issue of uni’s potential civil liability for any future crim acts by same perp, but I hope the monster responsible for the four deaths does not have a chance to injure anyone else.

Uni. "Downplaying" Murders?
Uni. participated in media conferences w LE multiple times and also posted on official website* info re MPD's Homicide Investigation Updates, Campus Safety, e.g., Safe Walk - 24/7 Security Service, Counseling, etc.

These homicides did not take place on uni. property.
Afaik, the uni's known connection to these crimes is that all four victims were enrolled there (not as if the uni. is aware that a uni. prof. or employee committed the homicides).
Afaik, the uni. itself had no role in these murders.

Though these murders pull at our heartstrings, I don't see the Uni. is downplaying these tragic events. JM2Cents.

______________________________________
* U of I Communications to Students, Parents, Alumni and Employees

 

[debirlfan]

now that SG said "points of damage don't match" for K and M, that means they were stabbed in different parts of their bodies. (Or, at least some of the wounds aren't the same, they might've had some that were the same.) So i'm thinking something like one was primarily stabbed in chest, while the other had wounds to throat, or face, or genitals, etc. which would certainly seem targeted. JMO.

On the other hand, if the perp finds two sleeping girls, with the first it will be easy to stab wherever you want - if the second girl wakes, it's going to be harder to hit that perfect mark.

 

[WildWest]

The coroner has said the victims were likely sleeping when they were murdered. Is there reason this shouldn’t be believed? There are so many theories that have E confronting the killer; How can he do that when he is likely sleeping - or did I miss an update?

MOO

My experience only, I've never seen anyone leave a frat party sober.

 

[Seattle1]

I took that to mean (and we eventually found out) (according to K’s dad) that K wasn’t in her bed, she was with M.

“Of the four University of Idaho students who were found stabbed to death in a rental house last Sunday, some were killed in their beds, the Latah County coroner told CBS News Friday.

Coroner Cathy Mabbutt would not provide any further details. She noted, however, that earlier media reports stating all four victims had been murdered in their beds were not accurate.”

Some of the murdered University of Idaho students were stabbed in their beds, coroner says

According to police, the coroner said all four victims were likely asleep, some had defensive wounds and each was stabbed multiple times.

www.cbsnews.com

MOO

I agree.

We also have EC's parent's audible interview in their own voices stating victims E/X, were found in the same room.

ETA: And given the only source citing EC on the floor was the DM, I'll take the mother of the decedent's word every time.

 

[otto]

What we know is that initial reports are that the victims "bled out". Weeks later, we heard from Kaylee's father that one victim died from a different cause of death. All four victims' manner of death is homicide.

Kaylee's father has said that the third floor victims died in different ways from each other. That would mean that one victim did not bleed out.

The only way that Kaylee's father would know that one victim suffered additional wounds is if he was being notified about his own daughter. He would not receive that information about someone else's daughter. Privacy.

 

[EmmieA]

I did edit my post to include it. here it is again.
ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Died in Apparent Homicide, Moscow, 13 Nov 2022 ****Media Thread**** NO DISCUSSION

under November 13th: See quote:

• [TIME?] - FIRST RESPONDERS ARRIVE - First responders "discovered four individuals who were deceased" [20] - EC was found on floor of second level [36]; two victims found on 2nd floor; two on 3rd floor [60@5:29]; officers describe a bloody crime scene, "especially on upper floors of the house" [37]; fire and EMS were also on scene but did not go into residence or transport anyone out[1]

Thank you for the link @TKG!

 

[TKG]

Never seen that in MSM.

• [TIME?] - FIRST RESPONDERS ARRIVE - First responders "discovered four individuals who were deceased" [20] - EC was found on floor of second level [36]; two victims found on 2nd floor; two on 3rd floor [60@5:29]; officers describe a bloody crime scene, "especially on upper floors of the house" [37]; fire and EMS were also on scene but did not go into residence or transport anyone out[1]

Webslueths timeline and source news links

 

[slanda]

I’m scared too…and live 15 min away. My thoughts on posters: 1. This is on EVERYONE’S mind who lives around here already; 2. Both Pullman and Moscow are university towns (and lots of revenue comes from the student body) and LE in both make many allowances for student behaviors. For example, intoxicated/disorderly kids rarely end up in jail, they’re usually taken to the ER to sober up. I have a LE background and want to support them always, but I agree with SG’s suggestion that ‘someone’ (read: LE and school officials), do not want this deterring enrollment, or kids physically living here in town. A huge portion of the student body has not returned after leaving before the Thanksgiving break. Who knows what next semester will look like here. LE lost some community support right away when they declared no risk to the public within a hr or two of discovering the crime. And it’s gone downhill from there. Moscow is a ghost town now…I was at the mall yesterday and it was empty…should be full of students shopping for Christmas.
I know someone who lived in that house last year and am waiting to hear from them if the bedroom doors had locks and if so, what kind. I’ll post when I know.

Yikes! I am so sorry you’re having to live through this so closely I’m definitely on guard and live a few states away— I can’t imagine how I’d feel if this happened close to me. I’m sending lots of hugs and peace to you and your loved ones <3

I was interested to reading your opinion re: the University. Last night, SG was almost flat out accusing them (my impression) of wanting them the “suppress” (his word) the case and stop the notoriety and media coverage and said “they wouldn’t let him put up ‘wanted/reward’ posters because they are afraid it would scare off prospective students during Rush”. —(All his words.) — And after I listened to him say that I felt that he could be on to something obviously because the University is the #1 employer of the city. And he feels that (I’m paraphrasing) the mixed messages like ‘targeted vs not targeted’; and ‘a crime of passion’, etc… are said one day and walked-back the next in order not to scare off students/prospective students. So, now he comes off looking as if he’s a bit of an unhinged grieving father but he may be right about some things (IMO). One very nice Websleuther posted an official press release for me earlier today re: how the University is working directly with LE on this investigation and it was an official media statement from joint offices of the Uni/LE who released it during the first week of the investigation.

SG is afraid this case may go cold and just wants to keep the attention there.

Just as a casual observer listening to him, it all made logical sense to me. ***I’m not accusing LE of any misconduct at all and actually neither was SG, and maybe he was just venting about things he was being told, or wasn’t being told, etc… (of course there is always more to the story) — but maybe there is political pressure coming from the University to want to get out from the media spotlight as far as this case is concerned because it’s very bad publicity for a town thats livelihood orbits around said University (IMO).

Thank you also for asking your friend about the locks and how hope they’re holding up ok— that would be quite unsettling for them, I am sure <3

 

[al66pine]

Uni. as Perp's Target?

What if the target was the University? Seriously, think how much this has and will affect the university.

@Tillicum Thanks for your post. Interesting idea, but if perp wanted to ruin/stain the Uni.'s reputation, for whatever reason, seems the crimes would have occurred on campus. JM2Cents, could be wrong.

(Sorry if this has been discussed since your post; I'm waaay behind.)

 

[TKG]

I'm completely unconvinced, that was way back when they were doing the sensational reporting about "blood oozing" and it has never again appeared in any MSM story. DM is about as trustworthy as Nancy Grace.

This is in the Webslueths timeline. I've posted the link and quote. Luckily on this site all info is confirmed by MSM sources.

• [TIME?] - FIRST RESPONDERS ARRIVE - First responders "discovered four individuals who were deceased" [20] - EC was found on floor of second level [36]; two victims found on 2nd floor; two on 3rd floor [60@5:29]; officers describe a bloody crime scene, "especially on upper floors of the house" [37]; fire and EMS were also on scene but did not go into residence or transport anyone out[1]

 

[drmrgrl]

Brian Entin says Kaylee’s injuries were significantly more brutal.

NewsNation Live

Listen: NewsNation broadcast audio

www.newsnationnow.com

I watched and came away with the understanding that SG thinks that LE just threw out “targeted” to ease the townspeople’s fears and that K was not targeted

 

[layer]

This is in the Webslueths timeline. I've posted the link and quote. Luckily on this site all info is confirmed by MSM sources.

• [TIME?] - FIRST RESPONDERS ARRIVE - First responders "discovered four individuals who were deceased" [20] - EC was found on floor of second level [36]; two victims found on 2nd floor; two on 3rd floor [60@5:29]; officers describe a bloody crime scene, "especially on upper floors of the house" [37]; fire and EMS were also on scene but did not go into residence or transport anyone out[1]

I posted 2 confirmed MSM sources stating that the survivors were on the top floor. From sources more reliable than DM.
Go figure...

 

[Kittycat40]

What we know is that initial reports are that the victims "bled out". Weeks later, we heard from Kaylee's father that one victim died from a different cause of death. All four victims' manner of death is homicide.

Kaylee's father has said that the third floor victims died in different ways from each other. That would mean that one victim did not bleed out.

The only way that Kaylee's father would know that one victim suffered additional wounds is if he was being notified about his own daughter. He would not receive that information about someone else's daughter. Privacy.

Here’s the thing each of the murder victim’s parents recently had their children buried.When the victims parents have their child buried they get to see the entire body.

While it may be true that due to privacy of all 4 victims: Their wounds, markings etc aren’t shared with the entire group of parents. However, that doesn’t stop the parents from privately talking amongst themselves about what wounds were on their child when they buried them. I also would not be surprised if Kaylee’s dad didn’t call Maddie’s dad to talk about what that saw on their daughter (wound wise) before burials. They might have even taken their own pictures to share between them.

Also keep in mind Maddie and Kaylee were best friends since 6th grade. Both their families knew each other very very well and were close. Thus, I have no doubt that they have talked privately about all this. Which is why I am not surprised that SG knew about Maddie and Kaylee’s wounds and was able to say how they were killed doesn’t exactly match.

 

[mayhem911]

My thinking now is dominated by the concept of danger so like everyone else I am jumping to conclusions. But until LE makes more of their findings public we can only make arbitrary inferences about what really happened. Inferences now about the case are not necessarily incorrect, but they are based on internal cognitive processes rather than actual information. LE will disprove or confirm the hypothesis people are throwing out there about this case once they gather all the information.

 

[PitkinGirl]

I’m scared too…and live 15 min away. My thoughts on posters: 1. This is on EVERYONE’S mind who lives around here already; 2. Both Pullman and Moscow are university towns (and lots of revenue comes from the student body) and LE in both make many allowances for student behaviors. For example, intoxicated/disorderly kids rarely end up in jail, they’re usually taken to the ER to sober up. I have a LE background and want to support them always, but I agree with SG’s suggestion that ‘someone’ (read: LE and school officials), do not want this deterring enrollment, or kids physically living here in town. A huge portion of the student body has not returned after leaving before the Thanksgiving break. Who knows what next semester will look like here. LE lost some community support right away when they declared no risk to the public within a hr or two of discovering the crime. And it’s gone downhill from there. Moscow is a ghost town now…I was at the mall yesterday and it was empty…should be full of students shopping for Christmas.
I know someone who lived in that house last year and am waiting to hear from them if the bedroom doors had locks and if so, what kind. I’ll post when I know.

I live in Moscow. It really is a ghost town. It feels to me like everyone is on edge. Main Street always looks like a Christmas postcard. This year there’s no joy, no holiday spirit, while walking down the street. Am I afraid? Yes, I am. We have added security measures at home, which helps a little. My husband works and I am often home alone. And I worry. I am praying this killer is found. Soon.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

I believe the closest one is in Pullman. It’s only a 19 minute drive to 1122 Kind Rd. I bet it does a lot of late night business through DoorDash &/or UberEats.

Yeah, I dunno. You’d have to be a pretty hardcore Jack-in-the-Box addict willing to wait over an hour for delivery of stone cold food + pricey delivery when there are other popular local options.

Anything is possible & MOO.

 

[branmuffin]

Does anyone remember the first interview Alivia gave after the murders? I can't seem to find it anywhere online. In that interview I remember how she described K as smart, driven, etc. but one thing she said was that K was a 'mean girl'. Does anyone remember that interview?

 

[avalonisland]

On the other hand, if the perp finds two sleeping girls, with the first it will be easy to stab wherever you want - if the second girl wakes, it's going to be harder to hit that perfect mark.

Do we know if Maddie and Kaylee shared same bed prior to falling asleep or did killer killing one prompt the other 3rd floor girl to enter the room of first target on 3rd floor? I think 3rd floor killings happened prior to X & E because X & E had defensive wounds which I would think may have cause physical injury to killer, making it less likely for killer to go upstairs to 3rd floor if hurt IMO