ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 21

[hopewell]

I wonder about targeting and if there is a primary and secondary target. Specifically one person could be the primary but the entire friend group could be the secondary. Then something happened that stopped the killer from going the other 2 roommates. The psychology of targeting the friend group could be jealousy (they are close to the target), revenge (they stood in the killers way or he knew it would hurt the target even more if friends were dead). Or perhaps targeting the friends was just a part of the overall appetite for death. It is all disturbing and I seriously hope they had minimal awareness of what was going on

I feel like it's more likely that this was targeted killings by an unknown pathological stalker, who was perhaps obsessed with KG via social media (it was public), knew that she was coming back into town for the weekend, and seized on his fantasy/compulsion. The elevated and 'hidden' parking lot behind the house would be ideal to sit and wait and watch. From that vantage point, I think he could have seen the second and third floor activities (and when the lights went out on each), so therefore knew that he would have to kill others just to get to her (which probably thrilled him - ugh). He would likely not have known about nor seen the first floor rooms/any lights therein.

Probably not his first time. Or if it was, probably not his last.

My opinion.

 

[redcedarblues]

I feel like it's more likely that this was targeted killings by an unknown pathological stalker, who was perhaps obsessed with KG via social media (it was public), knew that she was coming back into town for the weekend, and seized on his fantasy/compulsion. The elevated and 'hidden' parking lot behind the house would be ideal to sit and wait and watch. From that vantage point, I think he could have seen the second and third floor activities (and when the lights went out on each), so therefore knew that he would have to kill others just to get to her (which probably thrilled him - ugh). He would likely not have known about nor seen the first floor rooms/any lights therein.

Probably not his first time. Or if it was, probably not his last.

My opinion.

These are really good points. Does anyone know if KG posted on social media that she was moving? Perhaps that could be viewed as a betrayal especially if he was actually stalking her. I agree that house was unfortunately a perfect place to stalk someone especially with the woods in the back.
Your observation that he may have been a social media stalker would also track with how hard its been to identify a real POI. I hope they saved her social media to not give him the opportunity to delete posts and comb through that with a fine toothed comb
MOO

 

[newredtabby]

So, after this interview, to me, it's clear the family DOESNT think their daughter was targeted. Sounds like they don't think anyone in the house was targeted. More confusion, and THAT is why LE needs to be allowed the space to do their jobs.

 

[shane13]

So people know what can be quickly done with a knife and also how cleverly it can be concealed and rapidly brought out by someone who's trained, see here:

 

[Txbarfly]

A criminal can target a house simply because they know the occupants leave their doors unlocked; it’s easy access, one less hurdle to getting inside.

MOO

1. Targeting an unlocked house for a burglary or other strictly property crime makes total sense. Generally, the intruder wants to get in, make off with as much loot as his arms can carry, and get out before anyone wakes up or gets home.

2. Targeting a sorority house makes total sense if you’re Ted Bundy. You’re a psychopathic serial killer, your victims are young females, and you’ve escalated to that level of brazen.

3. Targeting an unlocked inhabited dwelling for the sole purpose of committing maximum murder and mayhem?

 

[hopewell]

These are really good points. Does anyone know if KG posted on social media that she was moving? Perhaps that could be viewed as a betrayal especially if he was actually stalking her. I agree that house was unfortunately a perfect place to stalk someone especially with the woods in the back.
Your observation that he may have been a social media stalker would also track with how hard its been to identify a real POI. I hope they saved her social media to not give him the opportunity to delete posts and comb through that with a fine toothed comb
MOO

Since it was public he may not have followed her, which would make it all the more difficult if he never commented or liked anything. And someone like that may also know the in and outs of how to navigate the web anonymously. Probably a youngish, tech-savvy dude who is obsessively into violent fantasy games and role play.

My opinion.

 

[MexterDorgan]

Does anyone have any data on cold case progression? Specifically how long it typically takes for unsolved cases such as these to become a cold case? Now that, apparently, much of the DNA results have returned, if we don’t see any significant updates by the end of this week, it leads me to believe that is well where this may end up…

 

[newredtabby]

There need not have been much blood for a skilled knife expert esp if asleep compounded by alcohol. A stab to throat so no screaming and then a stab to heart region [a half second later if skilled] so little blood after that. JMO.

Coroner interviews state all 4 victims died from stab wounds to the upper torso, and bleeding out. The average adult requires about a half gallon of blood loss to cause death. 4 x 0.5 gallons = 2 gallons of blood. That is at a MINIMUM, and that is A LOT of blood.

How Much Blood Is in the Human Body?

www.healthline.com

 

[mickey2942]

Does anyone have any data on cold case progression? Specifically how long it typically takes for unsolved cases such as these to become a cold case? Now that, apparently, much of the DNA results have returned, if we don’t see any significant updates by the end of this week, it leads me to believe that is well where this may end up…

I don't think so, once police have identified DNA, prints, whatever else evidence they have, that is when the leg work starts.

LEO may have identified a specific individual, who has left the area, to finish the semester at home. The ability to do follow up questions may be stalled due to the POI not cooperating...meaning they have obtained legal counsel.

So, LEO has to do probable cause...that may be a lot more work. LEO has to be very careful now, to keep the evidence they have confidential.

 

[shane13]

Coroner interviews state all 4 victims died from stab wounds to the upper torso, and bleeding out. The average adult requires about a half gallon of blood loss to cause death. 4 x 0.5 gallons = 2 gallons of blood. That is at a MINIMUM, and that is A LOT of blood.

How Much Blood Is in the Human Body?

www.healthline.com

I referred to stopping the heart.

Add. The "more brutal" attack would be the one perhaps with much blood. After a throat wound to prevent screams, the sadistic nature might have unfolded and deliberately prolonged by not stabbing heart region. MOO.

 

[Emerald1328]

but just a couple of days ago Steve said that - in his opinion - wtte that he thought K had slept in M's room. ( He commented on the photo looking into K's room which he * believed * showed K's bed ' was made'. He means hadn't slept in it)

So is it the news today that both K & M were found in K's room ??( the only 3rd floor bedroom with a slider)

Brian Entin’s special last night stated that they were in Maddie’s room. It’s not referenced in the written article but it’s in the video at the end of it.

Idaho stabbing victim’s injuries ‘significantly more brutal’

Goncalves’ injuries were significantly more brutal than her best friend Madison Mogen, which may end up being a very important piece of evidence when it comes to determining who the target wa…

www.newsnationnow.com

 

[LauraAnne]

Protect how precisely? Can you suggest a meaningful way to prepare one? I am serious.

I would think that would mean deciding to disengage from this story for those posters who think continuing to follow the investigation might be too distressing.

Anyone who thinks they might need to use de-stressing techniques to prepare themselves for the details of this investigation would do well to make a decision to not purposely seek out this story further.

Anyway, that's how I'm interpreting this.

 

[Emerald1328]

Here’s a copy/paste of an update I just read on newsnation.com:*

“NewsNation’s Brian Entin confirmed Sunday that University of Idaho stabbing victim Kaylee Goncalves’ injuries were “significantly more brutal” than the other three victims.”
____

It went on to say that KG and MM were sleeping in the same bed. My first thought was how does that even happen. No blood-curdling screams? No loud and frenetic chaos? How does one person simultaneously stab someone to death while holding down the other person in that bed AND muffling his or her screams?

There would have been 3, 4, or 5 people still alive in that house when the “significantly more brutal” murder of Kaylee occurred. (If the order of the murders has been revealed, I missed it.)
With that, my mind goes to either (1) that house or at least one level of it was darn near soundproof OR (2) everybody was the same level of totally wasted and passed out cold.

I’ve been plenty drunk and passed out cold, but it’s been awhile. Also, in my experience with any group of six-ish out partying (together or not), there’d be at one or two who could semi hold their alcohol or who at least stopped drinking at the tipsy stage.


*Is it permissible to c/p from a news article? Or am I supposed to save the entire article and attach as a file?

Hello! As long as it’s MSM (mainstream media) you can copy and paste 10% of the article. Be sure to also include a link to the article.

Not just directing this at you, but this is for everyone, especially if you’re newer. If you ever have any questions as to whether a source is MSM or you can post something, before you post it click “Report” on any post. It will bring up a box that asks for the reason for the report. You can write that you’re not actually reporting the post but you have a question and ask your question. If it’s an article/webpage you want to post, be sure to include a link so they can check it out. They will then send you a private message letting you know if it’s ok. I’ve had to do that several times and they get back to you quickly and are very helpful. Mods really appreciate you checking first, since if it isn’t allowed, it saves the headache of them cleaning up the thread and also helps you from not being put on time out Hope that helps!

 

[OldCop]

It's possible that the suspect parked on Taylor Ave and walked the stairs and footpath to the house. The circle is the house with the camera - pointed away from the mass murder house. The murders could have happened without the ring camera capturing anything.

The arrow is the footpath to the house and possibly around to the back of the house

View attachment 385063

I agree, @otto. I have strongly felt that if, in fact, the killer had a vehicle, he would have parked on Taylor Ave. If he had parked in one of the lots at one of the neighboring apartment complexes, his vehicle would be more likely to be noticed. Lots of folks parked on Taylor as evidenced by the Google Earth view I attached here. I suspect overflow or non residents of the apartments parked here and also folks attending parties at one of the frat houses.
Taylor Ave runs along the field in front of Greek Row, is the northern boundary of the area that MPD has requested any video or other information from, and leads to HWY 95s, the eastern boundary of MPD’s coordinates. There is a gas station and other businesses at that corner which would have recorded vehicles coming out of Taylor Ave that evening. Because it was a Saturday night in a college town, I imagine there were at least a few cars leaving leaving that way. I believe LE is trying to identify each of those vehicles and interviewing the owners to see if they saw anything or to see if they couldn’t explain why they were in the area that evening.
ETA corrections

 

[Cindizzi]

Does anyone have any data on cold case progression? Specifically how long it typically takes for unsolved cases such as these to become a cold case? Now that, apparently, much of the DNA results have returned, if we don’t see any significant updates by the end of this week, it leads me to believe that is well where this may end up…

Well here’s how the dictionary defines it:


From following true crime for years, I have always heard that a case doesn’t become cold until investigators have exhausted every single tip and lead they have.

I don’t see that happening here any time soon. JMO

Definition of COLD CASE

an unsolved criminal investigation (as of a homicide or abduction) that has stopped being actively pursued because of a lack of evidence… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

 

[Emerald1328]

We have no way of knowing what photo SG viewed. But imo i very much doubt it was this picture, you can hardly see anything. I suspect LE showed him a photo of Kaylees room and got him to identify it. JMO

This is JMO, but I do think he was referring to that photo. He mentioned it in this interview with Fox News on 12/1 transcribed by @Allabouttrial :

Reporter - One of the things that you said last night (at the vigil) about the two of them having fallen asleep in the same bed, that was new information. Is that the case that they were actually in the same bed?.

Dad - To me, it wasn't new. The coroner had shared a bunch of information about... there was some photos.. if you knew the house design, you would have seen that there was a picture of Kaylee's bed and it was made, there was nothing in there. So, it was kind of a process of elimination, if you've been in the home, if you knew the inside information, like, I knew that was my daughters room, so to me it had been out, but I'm sure they're not happy with me saying that. I didn't mean to say something that was supposed to be under wraps.

All BBM. I think he’s saying that him revealing that they were in the same bed wasn’t new information and that it was already out in public because of that photo. If the public knew that that was Kaylee’s bedroom, they would have seen the bed made (though to me, it doesn’t necessarily look made) so people should have know by a process of elimination. If that’s actually what he was saying, I believe this is the only photo out there that shows her room that you can see into. All JMO though.

 

[thatssoamy]

I asked the same exact thing yesterday (even the part about setting fire to it). Like what does targeting a house even mean? Is someone enraged by the structure, the design, the materials used in its construction …… or the people who live in it?

Targeting a house means they picked that house because it has no dogs, no men, the window is a make that's easier to get in, no camera, no outside lighting etc etc (just some examples). That's what targeting a house looks like.

IMO

 

[WingsOverTX]

Does anyone have any data on cold case progression? Specifically how long it typically takes for unsolved cases such as these to become a cold case? Now that, apparently, much of the DNA results have returned, if we don’t see any significant updates by the end of this week, it leads me to believe that is well where this may end up…

Stats on cold case progression will not tell you much even if available IMO. Every case is so unique!

Put yourself in the investigators shoes for a minute. They cannot RUSH to judgment for many reasons no matter how much evidence they have.

Perhaps this case will go cold. I know of many that have. But there is a lot of evidence in this one & we are not yet a month out.

This terrible crime is nowhere close to going cold IMO. Many people are allowing fear to cloud their judgment, something LE cannot responsibly do.

Respectfully, knowing an average, mean or median of similar or all violent crimes "going cold" won't change much.

JMHO

 

[newredtabby]

So people know what can be quickly done with a knife and also how cleverly it can be concealed and rapidly brought out by someone who's trained, see here:

Respectfully, I don't see how this relates to the information we have (from coroner interviews) that all 4 victims were attacked, likely while sleeping, and stabbed to death.

 

[shane13]

Respectfully, I don't see how this relates to the information we have (from coroner interviews) that all 4 victims were attacked, likely while sleeping, and stabbed to death.

There were defensive wounds on at least one victim and also people are incredulous at how perp could get away with doing this to 4 people.