ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 22

[gliving]

BE is quoting the 12/5/22 Moscow Police Update in OP's link. IMO, News Nation's source that KG's injuries were more brutal than MM's was SG who may have visually compared their wounds. Nonetheless, I think it's clear from the MPD Update that LE has not released additional facts to the family, media, or the public.

Thanks! That makes more sense.

Mr. Goncalves says he's connecting the dots and using logic to form conclusions. Certainly his right to do so but a bit frustrating when I try to remain fact based. Even saying they were murdered in the same bed is his inference as LE has not released that info.

Idaho murders: Kaylee Goncalves' father believes suspect 'chose to go' upstairs to potentially target victims

Kaylee Goncalves' father, Steven Goncalves, says he believes the suspect in the murders of four Idaho college students may have chosen to go upstairs to target two victims.

www.foxnews.com

Victim’s father: Two Idaho students died together

The father of Idaho stabbing victim Kaylee Goncalves disclosed that his daughter and Madison Mogen were killed together.

www.newsnationnow.com

 

[DizzyB]

Well, if I recall correctly, a lot of people wanted to know where Murphy was when the murders occurred. Or are you thinking that there is an ulterior motive behind the release of this specific info now? I’m a tad lost here…

To me, any new info released is good. JMO

Sure, I wanted to know where the dog was, why he didn’t bark, was he locked up or let out by the killer, walking around the crime scene. But I don’t think it’s my business, nor does LE owe anyone an explanation. Just like the exact nature of wounds, and how many people might be upset with SG possibly saying things that could affect an eventual prosecution. This could be one of those things that only the killer might know. Weed out false confessions and all that. The press releases that includes lists of cleared people, and stuff like this-I don’t know. Feels funky to me.

 

[ktm44]

IMO BE had other sources than SG for the injuries.

I disagree only because the tabloids aren't getting inside sources to talk but I do believe that SG did offer to BE privately what he feels makes the injuries different.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

I just noticed something interesting in the photo the grey house. One of the ground floor screens is off the window. Not sure when Googlemaps took the photo - although it appears to be fall - but what year? I tried to post a photo, but could not due to file size. Here's the link: Google Maps

October 2021 is what I see as the date?

 

[indicolite22]

i agree with this. i really do think that they have someone in mind and under watch. i just can't imagine they don't with just how tight to the vest they've been keeping everything.

If they do have an unofficial suspect, I wonder what is it based on? It likely isn't DNA. Problem with an alibi? What are the chances that the perp left their DNA at the scene? Is that known to LE by now?

 

[whirrledpeas]

It definitely seems like a change in how they are wording X & E's time at the party. My memory isn't what it used to be, but I don't recall them saying "believed" to be at the Sigma Chi House in earlier statements, opting for a more definitive statement about their attendance at the party.

Based on LE’s wording in their press releases, I have always believed that X and E were at the frat party from 8-9 and that their 9-1:45am whereabouts were not accounted for.

MOO

Edited for grammar.

 

[10ofRods]

Regarding commercial DNA testing, couldn't LE just submit a sample that they are sure belongs to the perp? Sure they have their own labs, but this would enable them to get the coveted matches that any competent genealogist can trace within a week to a short list of suspects. This would require no subpoena. I know these companies usually use a saliva sample, but if you have any fluids containing DNA, they will be able to process it.

No, 23andme specifically bars anyone but the person whose DNA it is...from submitting. However, if they have a fairly complete sequencing of the DNA, I don't think GEDMatch does.

GEDMatch will almost certain lead to some distant relatives - who might also be in 23andme (because GEDMatch itself doesn't sequence DNA - most people come in with DNA sequenced by Ancestry or 23andme).

23andme uses only its own proprietary saliva sampling kit - not blood, not ever (not set up for it).

Once run through GEDMatch, LE can probably find relatives which may be enough for genealogical research. As that researh progresses, its quite common for distant relatives to be asked to get their DNA sequenced - to get closer and closer to the perp.

23andme would argue strongly in court that someone violating terms of service (in your example, LE) are not entitled to any results. Every person submits for themselves and signs the ToS (which includes info that if compelled in court by warrant or subpoena, 23 will give up your DNA - but not necessarily one's ancestors).

LE could also ask someone who is a relative of a suspect to submit to 23andme, voluntarily share all their results, etc. I would share and don't really understand why someone would not. Of course, I don't have many bio-relatives, most are already dead, and I'm pretty sure neither my kids or grandkids have committed major crimes.

 

[thx4_medic_Babby]

Sure, I wanted to know where the dog was, why he didn’t bark, was he locked up or let out by the killer, walking around the crime scene. But I don’t think it’s my business, nor does LE owe anyone an explanation. Just like the exact nature of wounds, and how many people might be upset with SG possibly saying things that could affect an eventual prosecution. This could be one of those things that only the killer might know. Weed out false confessions and all that. The press releases that includes lists of cleared people, and stuff like this-I don’t know. Feels funky to me.

I believe Kaylee’s family said he wouldn’t have barked, albeit, I think this was in reference to a potential intruder as opposed to his means of communication, such as a need or want. If he wasn’t able to traverse a crime scene, then I imagine he was either kenneled or put into a room with the door shut, where a murder did not partake. This could even be a bottom-stairs surviving roommate, I reckon.

 

[kittythehare]

genuine question: how would they be so certain it belongs to the perp?

Process of elimination, alibis etc.
At the actual murder scenes he may have bled or been cut, the victims may have scratched him and their fingernails may have contained his DNA ( and hopefully lumps of his eyes)

 

[Friday Fan]

We know how it goes, weve all been to high school. Somethings just come easier to some kids. You see those rich beautiful kids with their party house and new cars and all their friends, kids that dont have those opportunities feel slighted and hold *advertiser censored* agaisnt people who have been given a disirable life. I would say kids living in a 3 story party house are probably more taken care of then those in that apartment. If this were the case still something had to trigger them. Maybe you have somewhat of a carrie situation, no sexual assault is what its stumping me. Seems very personal. Dont think anyone would think they were bold enough to commit and actually get away with 4 murders. Maybe someone was waiting for x and e to come home, my understanding they were at home for majority of the night and then went to the frat house for a minimal amount of time and returned home before K and M. Then you may have blood transfer leading up the steps telling that he didnt have to go up the stairs. I feel as though SG is on a state of madness, he doesnt believe this should have happened to his daughter making it seem as she was not the target, thats why he is so upset. I dont think they were sleeping together, it says likely, i think they were either corralled together after encountering the perp or was aware of something going on and went to M's room being in fear and then calling ex bf for help

Slight difference: Apartments are probably more expensive than living in a house.

I lived in a house with my friends because it was cheaper because the way the rent is split. I believe the rent at 1122 King is $2100-$ 2700/6 or $350-$450/month.

The apartments across the street are $695/month for a single bedroom. (I guess two could rent for $350/month)

I know the apartments are kinda shabby looking, but they do afford more privacy
The downside of living in a house is that it can be kinda noisy.

 

[indicolite22]

I disagree only because the tabloids aren't getting inside sources to talk but I do believe that SG did offer to BE privately what he feels makes the injuries different.

Yes, but SG likely could not comment on X's and E's injuries.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

I'm hard pressed to find an example of someone actually donating their DNA in one of these mass volunteer drives if they know they are the perp).

I don't have much experience with large scale volunteer DNA drives nor do I think they are a valuable investigation technique. When did any such (expensive) quest turn up a suspect? I know we have a lot of true crime gurus here - there must be at least one case.

I thought maybe I'd once read a case out of Europe in which there was a solve because the brother of the guilty-party gave DNA when a village was mass-tested. But I didn't have luck finding such a case. I was only able to find an example of mass-testing done in Germany in 2019 (Claudia R. case), but no result. However I don't think it would be necessary in the United States where many more people have done Ancestry kits compared to in Europe.
I would also like to know the answer to your question, though.
All of this JMO.

 

[whitepinebay2]

i agree with this. i really do think that they have someone in mind and under watch. i just can't imagine they don't with just how tight to the vest they've been keeping everything.

If they do have an unofficial suspect, I wonder what is it based on? It likely isn't DNA. Problem with an alibi? What are the chances that the perp left their DNA at the scene? Is that known to LE by now?

Issues confirming an alibi. Maybe they have security footage that contradicts an alibi and they’re keeping it quiet so they don’t scare off a POI. Could also be info from the surviving roommates or the 911 call. They might have DNA and/or fibers from under a victim’s nails.

 

[whirrledpeas]

If they do have an unofficial suspect, I wonder what is it based on? It likely isn't DNA. Problem with an alibi? What are the chances that the perp left their DNA at the scene? Is that known to LE by now?

I still believe that LE has some type of concrete information that places the attack in that narrow time frame of 3-4am.

Three weeks in, it’s possible they have some dna back, but any mixed blood samples they have found may take longer.

I’d also add that if any prints were found at the crime scene and they aren’t in the system, they could collect a comparison if they have a POI in mind. Garbage is free game once it leaves someone’s house.

 

[slanda]

If it was Kaylee who was the most hurt why did her dad say:


"...Targeted to me seems behaviour based. That's why I don't like it and it kind of pits the parents against each other, so, I don't like that. I just told some of the other parents today that 'if your daughter.. no ill will from me man'..."


Doesn't make sense why he would say that to Xana or Maddie's dad if it was Kaylee who was most affected.

ETA: Source.

From my impression of his interview, I’ll try to explain what I think he means:

Let’s say for arguments sake, maybe Kaylee did sustain the most wounds and was the “targeted” victim and all the other victims were “collateral damage”

He infers, as he stated in his interview, the word “targeted” means to him that a victim was “doing something wrong” in order to be targeted.

So, IMO, he may feel guilty the rest of the kids died because his daughter was the “target”

He believes the word “target” implies the target victim was doing something wrong somehow that night to get herself killed.

Of course, this is not true at all and no one deserves to be killed they way those kids were killed.

Another poster kindly added a screenshot of the FBI’s definition of “target” and that helps define what the word actually means.

I think he feels very badly obviously for all the other victims and their families. It’s really sad.

 

[crax.t]

If they do have an unofficial suspect, I wonder what is it based on? It likely isn't DNA. Problem with an alibi? What are the chances that the perp left their DNA at the scene? Is that known to LE by now?

one of the things that i've been kind of stuck on is when an LEO said at a presser, something along the lines of "what isn't seen is just as important as what is seen." it could be reverse, but still sends the same message. so IMO, i feel like it's problem with an alibi.

 

[Stratocaster]

Lots of threads, catching up...

Can someone drop me a link of the food truck 'hoodie' guy.......seems lots are talking about his mannerisms in the video clip.

TIA

 

[The OG]

genuine question: how would they be so certain it belongs to the perp?

If it is found on the victims and does not match them. Fresh blood evidence that doesn't match any victim.

 

[Balthazar]

What is SG's source for the injuries to all the victims?

SG doesn't say outright except that he "Paid for it." I cannot be 100% certain, but it sounded like he probably paid for a private autopsy. They are also good friends with M's parents who may have done the same. The other possibility is that both men viewed their own daughter's remains prior to cremation. However this was done, these men must have shared information with each other about the state of their daughter's remains. I cannot blame them for doing that. In their position, I would have had a private autopsy and asked for photographs and shared information with M's father as well. I would want to know exactly what was done to my child and used that information in the future for a book I'd probably write and also for a victim's statement at the conclusion of the murder trial should that happen.

 

[Walela]

Regarding commercial DNA testing, couldn't LE just submit a sample that they are sure belongs to the perp? Sure they have their own labs, but this would enable them to get the coveted matches that any competent genealogist can trace within a week to a short list of suspects. This would require no subpoena. I know these companies usually use a saliva sample, but if you have any fluids containing DNA, they will be able to process it.

IMHO it would be much easier for LE to take any unidentified DNA that is returned from the crime lab(s) and do DNA phenotyping. That would at least describe the unknown person to some extent.