ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 22

[kittythehare]

So, for folks familiar with how LE works, if they have a POI, are they surveilling that person? Probably a dumb question, I know… I guess the question I’m asking is how would they be watching them? Would the person know they were being watched? My only reference is TV shows or movies - I have no idea how it actually works.

One would hope so.
I don't know know that they have one.
The only thing that suggests they may have is requests to come forward even if you were being naughty at the time you saw someone..
Maybe if the University stepped up now and offered amnesty to any witnesses doing 'naughty' a break might happen.
That suggests a student was involved.
I don't necessarily believe it was.
I think attack was from outside.
Not personal.

M's sister stated in the NN special that K was a bit of an alarmist, always the one to call convinced she'd heard noises outside or words to that effect.

That could also explain her injuries. If she awoke and became hysterical immediately perp might have felt he had to kill her fast, ergo more..?

Then again it could be as simpler as LE having knowledge that perp passed through a group of students hanging out at a well known smoking/drinking site..

 

[Ghostwheel]

I’m not sure I would reach the conclusion this guy has reached, but I do agree K’s father has released details that are unsubstantiated.

- K and M were found in the same bed
- K was more brutally attacked than M
- perp entered by sliding door or window on 2nd floor

Where did he get these details?
None of these pieces of information are on the Moscow PD Update.
We don’t even know if they are true.

If he thinks by releasing info to the public it is going to make LE trust him with more info, he is wrong. It would seem to me a Gag Order is warranted.

JMO

I can't tell you where he did, but I can tell you where he might have gotten the information

K and M were found in the same bed: This information could have been in an autopsy report. I AM NOT SAYING IT WAS. I am saying that if the report was shared with SG, this is where he could find this information. This information can also be deduced by other things known that we may or may not know. Example: if Murphy was in K's room and not in a room where the killing happned, then logic says K was not in her room, but in M's room. I AM NOT SAYING THIS HAPPENED. That is just an example.

K was more brutally attacked than M: This could be seen at a funeral home. I can only vouch for the funeral director involved with my friends death. Not going into detail, but I was able to see every mark on her body, every place they were covering up, every place the autopsy had been. This was at the request of the mother and I was moral support. (Her mom needed to see it for whatever reason, I wasn't going to judge. BTW, I was 21 at the time.) I AM NOT SAYING THIS HAPPENED. I am saying it is possible get this information from someone other than LE.

Perp entered by sliding door or window on 2nd floor: This one I do think he got from LE in one way or another. But LE isn't going to put that out there, even if SG tells the world. JMO.

It is my opinion SG has reached the anger stage. That first (IMO) rather imprudent interview where he was rambling a bit about "didn't have to go upstairs" looked like someone who just wanted answers. The subsequent interviews looks like a person who is trying very hard to reign it in and all he wants is someone to reassure him that he's not the only person doing something. That is JMO. SG knows he is not the person to tell anything to, he said so. He does not want his daughter's case to end up in a cold case file.

 

[DeDee]

LE almost always never releases autopsies during an active investigation. Imo.

By George, I think this is right, SuziQ. The only ones I can readily recall is JonBenet's autopsy in Mar 1997 and in July 2021 the lady murdered in Piedmont Park in ATL, Katherine Janess, we got both of those reports.

 

[debirlfan]

Our doodle has her crate in our bedroom as well !!! She needs us close but my daughters male doodle likes his crate in another room so I wonder what Murphy was use to. This breed is extremely smart and thus my interest!

Good chance that the dog was used to being left alone while 'mom' was in class. Not a doodle, but my mother's dog disappears into the open crate in 'her' room whenever my mother leaves the house.

 

[Data Sleuth]

I am beginning to think Murphy is more important than we think.

In my opinion the dog is a non-factor in this case and completely irrelevant.

 

[everybodhi]

Well I’m just not sure. I live in a very small town and we had a murder here and it was grossly mishandled— not intentional but just because LE had never had anything like it. Eventually FBI & state LE were involved but crime scene was mishandled and people were allowed to leave, etc. and I grew up with several of the people at LE and they were super nice people but I don’t know that I would’ve trusted them to be smart enough to solve the murder. And they were not.

Years later, the perp killed again and was caught and fessed up to the crime in our town. He said he had laughed when things were ruled out not understanding how they could have been.

Anyway— the LE were great people who I know were doing their best but when it is one of the only murders they had ever worked, it seems fair to question accuracy.

I know that SG has said he has talked to those who have more experience and is seeing things being possibly mishandled— like the autos being left out in non controlled environment in broad daylight. If cleared, give the cats back but they said they kept them in case they needed them again— like maybe looking at the computers to find X & E whereabouts.

I know I have one of those insurance things in my car and the insurance tracks all trips and I’ve known people who had their stolen cars located with the app. Idk.. just an example.

I’m just saying that doctors, law enforcement, and many other things are not as great as where there is more experience. I would always go to the larger city doctor to perform a surgery because he has done 1000 of them and our doctor here has done 10. Same principal. Just some food for thought.

But the FBI and state police were called in right away in this case.
And as far as experience, one of his gripes about LE is the tech person is 27 years old so therefore inexperienced, followed by boasting his PI has 50 years experience.
Silicon Valley is full of 27 year olds running the internet and starting new tech companies.
I don’t know about you, but I would go to a 27 year old to answer my tech questions before I would go to a 70+ year old.

 

[The Observer]

Please correct me if I’m mistaken-E went to his sister’s formal AND got to Sigma Chi at 8 pm? Did he stay for a minute at the frat house and then go to formal, then go to X’s, hang out, then leave there, and return near 1 am? This was all on that night?

The ball was early evening when they attended. The pictures I saw it was just on dark. It wasn't a formal ball e.g. with gowns. It was a social event held by the sorority.

 

[BeckyF]

Dog that size doesn’t pee in the house unless it’s not trained just my experience in my opinion

Not true. My dog is 20 lbs. and he uses washable puppy pads all the time. He is 3 1/2 and has used them since he was 10 weeks.

 

[ellabella]

So, for folks familiar with how LE works, if they have a POI, are they surveilling that person? Probably a dumb question, I know… I guess the question I’m asking is how would they be watching them? Would the person know they were being watched? My only reference is TV shows or movies - I have no idea how it actually works.

Usually when I see them say this after that they had a POI, even if unnamed, that they are under pretty strict surveillance. An example that I can think of is a serial killer out of Canada, Bruce McArthur. If I remember correctly, he was under pretty strict surveillance, but was not named a suspect. Police were holding out to have a stronger case, but eventually stepped in when they saw him go into his home with what they presumed was a hookup(his victim profile). They breached the house and found his date already tied to the bed.

 

[ktm44]

Agreed. I think more than anyone here, Kaylee's family wants this solved. Unless you have had a close family member murdered (which I sincerely hope no one has), you can't put yourself in his shoes and what he thinks is right or wrong. We don't know what he has or hasn't been told, not really. We don't know additional information he's been given from other people in the community, the victims' friends, etc. If he thinks this is going to help the investigation move forward, that's what he's going to do. Unless someone has come forward to get their name cleared, sorry but I have trouble sympathizing with that person. And to those saying "maybe he has", it's clear by social media that he hasn't (other than the minimal info released by LE). I agree there shouldn't be speculation on sites like these for liability sake, but I don't really blame the dad, not really. JMO

I have had a family member murdered and I have also had the misfortune of seeing no justice because the case was compromised.

I also know that when LE asks you not to share information publicly, they tend to have a valid reason.

My family member’s wife suffered the public humiliation and crucifying this person is and she was absolutely proven innocent. Unfortunately, there finally came a time where she could no longer find employment or cope with people reporting her to children’s services as being an unfit mother, as killers tend to be.

She finally found peace when she packed up her children and left the country.

 

[gcplayer19]

In my opinion the dog is a non-factor in this case and completely irrelevant.

Ok so did the go take Murphy out for one last pee? Did they lock sliding door? Did they even know where Murphy was when they came home??what was the arrangements for pick up?

 

[SuziQ]

I can't tell you where he did, but I can tell you where he might have gotten the information

K and M were found in the same bed: This information could have been in an autopsy report. I AM NOT SAYING IT WAS. I am saying that if the report was shared with SG, this is where he could find this information. This information can also be deduced by other things known that we may or may not know. Example: if Murphy was in K's room and not in a room where the killing happned, then logic says K was not in her room, but in M's room. I AM NOT SAYING THIS HAPPENED. That is just an example.

K was more brutally attacked than M: This could be seen at a funeral home. I can only vouch for the funeral director involved with my friends death. Not going into detail, but I was able to see every mark on her body, every place they were covering up, every place the autopsy had been. This was at the request of the mother and I was moral support. (Her mom needed to see it for whatever reason, I wasn't going to judge. BTW, I was 21 at the time.) I AM NOT SAYING THIS HAPPENED. I am saying it is possible get this information from someone other than LE.

Perp entered by sliding door or window on 2nd floor: This one I do think he got from LE in one way or another. But LE isn't going to put that out there, even if SG tells the world. JMO.

It is my opinion SG has reached the anger stage. That first (IMO) rather imprudent interview where he was rambling a bit about "didn't have to go upstairs" looked like someone who just wanted answers. The subsequent interviews looks like a person who is trying very hard to reign it in and all he wants is someone to reassure him that he's not the only person doing something. That is JMO. SG knows he is not the person to tell anything to, he said so. He does not want his daughter's case to end up in a cold case file.

LE do not or rarely give autopsies in an open investigation to family. Imo

 

[Deleted member 110058]

Lurker coming out of hiding here)
I'm as caught up as I'm going to be.
We have very little info here. Guesses without at least some amount of evidence can be messy so I choose to remain mum until we know more.
But I will say that it's clear to me that this LE is not well versed in dealing with national media, traumatized families or even with writing a coherent case summary.
I feel for them and for everyone involved. It's no wonder one family has hired an independent P.I.
My hopes are that Moscow LE will hire a communication consultant (if they have not already).
I have no doubt that they are doing the best they can but they could blow this case if they don't gain control of the narrative.

 

[Sarg]

I feel like the 12/5/22 LE update makes it more confusing as to where Ethan and Xana were between 9pm and 1:45am. The release implies but isn't conclusively saying, from how I'm reading it, that they were at the frat house. But in previous updates it seemed like they didn't know where they were during that time (that they were only confirmed in the frat house between 8 and 9pm), which made it seem to me like LE didn't want people to know that LE knew where Ethan and Xana were at that night (my assumption is that LE always knew). So seems relevant for some reason, but unsure why, especially given all the talk of Kaylee being the suspected main "target" (which may or may not be true)

I think, based on K's Dad's interview, that Xana or Ethan was the target. Why did Dad say "he didn't have to go upstairs" if he had already killed his target?

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

different thing though?

LE had no grounds and J wouldn't have ever been on a priority list if SM people and MSM reporters hadn't kept on interviewing the guy

Absolutely. Thought the same thing. While the killer watches from some “line of sight” - possibly a nearby housing or apartment complex. Laying low. Still watching. AAI.

 

[whirrledpeas]

Nightly reminder of one-hour coverage on News Nation just started.

 

[ellabella]

I think, based on K's Dad's interview, that Xana or Ethan was the target. Why did Dad say "he didn't have to go upstairs" if he had already killed his target?

I think he was saying he believes his daughter was the target, because the killer wouldn't need to go upstairs(where the girls were) if target had already been eliminated.

 

[blackbeary]

Does anyone remember seeing a photo of the slider on the 2nd floor, with bar stools laying down in the tracks? I've seen it, and can not find it back. It was also mentioned by Ashley Banfield on her show.

 

[gcplayer19]

That is how I felt about the Rhodens But they proved me wrong eventually when they had a rocksolid case and I thank them for that

I’m sorry about the Rhodens… I watched every single thing with that and my other half to two and we are heartbroken for years

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

Lurker coming out of hiding here)
I'm as caught up as I'm going to be.
We have very little info here. Guesses without at least some amount of evidence can be messy so I choose to remain mum until we know more.
But I will say that it's clear to me that this LE is not well versed in dealing with national media, traumatized families or even with writing a coherent case summary.
I feel for them and for everyone involved. It's no wonder one family has hired an independent P.I.
My hopes are that Moscow LE will hire a communication consultant (if they have not already).
I have no doubt that they are doing the best they can but they could blow this case if they don't gain control of the narrative.

I fully concur. I add that the enormous task of sorting through DNA and TRACE evidence of any purposeful use inside of a known “party house” and student housing rental is a complete nightmare of an undertaking. This has all the complexities and shortcomings. No cameras. No lighting. Open doors or windows. Photos online of the interior of the dwelling from former rental adverts. Obscurity and cover provided by dense forestation and trees. On and on…down the unforgivable and unending rabbit hole of a cold case in the making.