ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 22

[May234]

I'm speculating here that one or both of the surviving roommates entered the kitchen at almost noon, and probably thought it odd the house was so quiet. As is the norm for Generation Z, they probably texted/phoned X/E from the kitchen, and when they failed to get a response, probably thought one or both had to be unconscious and called nearby friends and 911.
[snip]
With the utmost compassion for the surviving roommates, I think instinctively they knew something was very wrong the closer they got to the kitchen. I say this because human blood -- especially in the volume lost by the victims contains water and iron and has a distinctive smell similar to rust. And if you are close enough, depending on the temperature, humidity, etc, you can actually taste the metallic/iron in the air. I hope the surviving roommates saw nothing. MOO

This was another thing I thought was weird. There had to be some blood tracked through the house when the killer moved between rooms. It seems strange that the roommates wouldn’t have immediately noticed that.

 

[EmmieA]

Yes it was stated early on they was seen leaving at 9pm. If they were 'likely' there as LE stated, then why would LE themselves be seeking information regarding whereabouts!? IF hypothetically E and X were in a room together at frat house then LE would know their whereabouts still. You're left to just shake your head at this point.

IMO LE wants more proof, more info, more digital evidence of that timeframe because of someone who was around E & X at that time. Maybe a POI. Maybe they’re trying to disprove an alibi. I think the ask for more info is a big clue.

 

[Strong1]

What my understanding is, a text exchange between parents put X and E at the house watching a movie at 12. ( something about pictures of popcorn and wine glasses)Other info surrounding include that they arrived home at 145 indicating that they had left sometime after 12, possibly to get food, jack in the box receipt. My understanding also that they had stopped by the frat house sometime after leaving at 12 and going back home at 145. If they have survelience of the others coming and going wouldnt they also have them on camera also

This is why this whole timeline for X & E is so frustrating. No one seems to know their movements for the evening, or if they do their not saying. Did they go to the party? Did just E go to the party? Did he, after leaving the party go to X's house? Did they watch a movie and then go out? There are so many questions.

 

[Seattle1]

Yes indeed!! And *69 still works!!

And who's the dirty sod that came up with "this phone does not accept calls from blocked or unknown callers. Please unblock your phone and try again. Goodbye."

 

[donnanj]

I'd bet the rent it's not Hoodie Guy - nor the ex, nor the person(s) who gave K and M a ride, nor anyone they met at the bar that night. IMHO, this attack was planned days or weeks ahead by a psychopathic killer. Somebody had been watching that house and its residents. I've been wrong before, but I am sticking to my intuition on this one. JMHO.

I agree!

 

[The Observer]

IMO LE wants more proof, more info, more digital evidence of that timeframe because of someone who was around E & X at that time. Maybe a POI. Maybe they’re trying to disprove an alibi. I think the ask for more info is a big clue.

Yeah as I replied earlier to another member, IMO I think they want physical sightings. Someone who engaged with them in person at that time.

 

[Dre]

What my understanding is, a text exchange between parents put X and E at the house watching a movie at 12. ( something about pictures of popcorn and wine glasses)Other info surrounding include that they arrived home at 145 indicating that they had left sometime after 12, possibly to get food, jack in the box receipt. My understanding also that they had stopped by the frat house sometime after leaving at 12 and going back home at 145. If they have survelience of the others coming and going wouldnt they also have them on camera also

well if this is true, I wonder if there was some sort of interaction with any chemically fueled frat members after midnight?

 

[Ghostwheel]

I think you are thinking of the death certificate? Death certificates are not held back because they are legally needed to settle the victims estate. The autopsy would have been greatly detailed and a dozen pages at least. Imo.

Believe it or not I was told about 90 % of autopsies are not complete enough to use in a court case. Death cert had even less regarding cause of death than the autopsy report did. As an aside, my father's death certificate identified him as a female, and my mother reportedly died of two additional diseases she did not have.

Sadly, these things are not above having mistakes and gaps. This was my experience only, and I don't apply it to other cases except to say it can happen.

 

[ScottyB]

I couldn’t agree more. IMO I think it’s most likely a middle aged man that had an obsession with one of the girls. Probably a veteran that suffers with PTSD. One of the girls had befriended but wouldn’t entertain him hitting on them. Knowing that they would be moving out soon stocked them and killed them before they could leave him. I’m saying this from experience with 20 years in the military. I’ve seen ex soldiers with PTSD this bad in the past.

 

[Karin1974]

They can't obtain DNA without probable cause and perhaps even a warrant, both of which are pretty high bars.

It really isn't a right to privacy as much as it is a 5th Amendment right, which is fundamental. A successful PR campaign by authorities (and media) over the last 50 years that it somehow implies guilt doesn't negate that absolute right. Anyone, innocent or not, shouldn't talk to police without an attorney present, and they certainly shouldn't be volunteering personal identifiers for a stored, collective law enforcement database.

The whole "if you had nothing to hide, you would do it" mantra is absurd.

My opinion.

I politely disagree, I am one of ‘those’ people who say ‘If you have nothing to hide, why wouldn’t you?’ I also believe barcoding humans at birth would be a great idea for the same reason. I’m sure many will think I’m a crackpot but I really do have nothing to hide & don’t understand why you think this mantra is ‘absurd’?

 

[Seattle1]

This was another thing I thought was weird. There had to be some blood tracked through the house when the killer moved between rooms. It seems strange that the roommates wouldn’t have immediately noticed that.

I wonder if the killer changed his shoes/clothes. A killer in Mandan, ND changed twice after stabbing 4 co-workers more than 100 times at their office.

 

[Colorado303]

For whatever reason, LE has not publicly acknowledged the Sorority formal on Saturday and excluded any information from the timeline. I think this must be intentional by LE.

I too was expecting the formal would be more of an evening event but if my speculation is correct, the venue would make for an earlier start and finish.

^^rsbm

I’m wondering if the formal was indeed in the evening and E & X were spotted at Sigma Chi before Ethan left for the formal. X may have stayed at the fraternity house party while Ethan was at at his sister’s sorority ball. It’s possible LE knows where Ethan was that night and the big question mark is behind X’s whereabouts. If that’s the case, who with and how she spent time that evening without Ethan could be important.

 

[uburoi1]

No they have already said that there was no sexual assault

Perhaps not technically (or legally), but penetration of four human bodies with a knife, probably multiple times, is never asexual.

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

On the evening of November 12th, Kaylee Goncalves and Madison Mogen were at a local bar called Corner Club at 202 N. Main Street, in downtown Moscow, between 10 p.m. and 1:30 a.m. on November 13th. At approximately 1:40 a.m., Kaylee and Madison were seen on video at a local food vendor called the “Grub Truck” at 318 S. Main Street and used a private party for a ride home from downtown to arrive at their 1122 King Road residence around 1:56 a.m.

Investigators have determined that Ethan Chapin and Xana Kernodle were seen at the Sigma Chi house on the University of Idaho Campus at 735 Nez Perce Drive. At approximately 1:45 a.m., Ethan and Xana are believed to have returned to the residence at 1122 King Road. It was previously reported that Ethan resided at the home; however, it has been determined that he was only visiting.

Detectives believe that on November 12th, the two surviving roommates had also been out in the Moscow community, separately, but returned home by 1 a.m. on November 13th. The two did not wake up until later that morning.

On November 13th, the surviving roommates summoned friends to the residence because they believed one of the second-floor victims had passed out and was not waking up. At 11:58 a.m., a 911 call requested aid for an unconscious person. The call was made from one of the surviving roommates’ cell phones inside the residence. Multiple people talked with the 911 dispatcher before Moscow Police arrived at the location. Officers entered the residence and found two victims on the second floor and two victims on the third floor. King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

No digital security cameras on surrounding houses?

So much info yet to come to light.

 

[Seattle1]

sbm for emphasis

Ohhh … good point! I live in Idaho where it’s not legal (not even medical), so I don’t what the legal age is.

Amazing given Idaho ranks 29th overall for marijuana use in the United States.

But since Pullman, WA is only a 10-minute drive, easy access in Washington.

Although the legal age is 21, if you were ever prescribed Rx as a minor for ADHD, etc., you can easily get a medical card. For Patients 18+, the card is good for a year, and for minors under age 18, good for 6 months.

https://odp.idaho.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/2022-Marijuana-Fact-Sheet_Updated-1.pdf

https://doh.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2022-02/608035.pdf?uid=62709ab26d2a1#:~:text=Adults%20age%2021%20and%20older,a%20licensed%20cannabis%20retail%20store.

 

[WildWest]

sbm for emphasis

Ohhh … good point! I live in Idaho where it’s not legal (not even medical), so I don’t what the legal age is.

In my experience anything goes with no fear of getting caught regarding any/all drugs and alcohol at Frat parties regardless of age, even 16 y/o. A decade or two ago initiation alcohol poisoning deaths were making the news? Couple parties they even had jello shot guards at every single doorway, one could not go from one gathering room to another with out paying the toll of swallowing a jello shot. Pot is not legal where I live either and it honestly shocks me how many here smoke it.

 

[AngTxGal]

Believe it or not I was told about 90 % of autopsies are not complete enough to use in a court case. Death cert had even less regarding cause of death than the autopsy report did. As an aside, my father's death certificate identified him as a female, and my mother reportedly died of two additional diseases she did not have.

Sadly, these things are not above having mistakes and gaps. This was my experience only, and I don't apply it to other cases except to say it can happen.

I not surprised by that as I believe all autopsies have the same basic info that must be given on each. If something is suspected or evidence leads in a direction then the autopsy would focus toward that direction.
Every autopsy couldn’t possibly be given the thoroughness to rule out every single possible factor relating to death without some guidance from a crime scene or investigators- it is too much. This case has enough evidence leading the investigation there are a lot of things that would not be a focus.
That is why bodies are exhumed after investigations lead in a direction, then more can be gained from an autopsy.
In one case I read about an elderly woman in her 80’s suddenly passed, family was suspicious due to a grandchild In their twenties living in the home. Autopsy revealed she had fallen asleep and choked on her dentures.
A more related case I read about where a person was stabbed to death. Upon autopsy it was revealed they were actually shot before being stabbed. When bullet was found it changed the case. The person was subdued with a bullet then the perp attempted to make it look like a stabbing. That case came to mind when I heard 4 people stabbed in the same house with little fighting back, but if this had happened it would be known by now.

JMO

 

[AngTxGal]

I politely disagree, I am one of ‘those’ people who say ‘If you have nothing to hide, why wouldn’t you?’ I also believe barcoding humans at birth would be a great idea for the same reason. I’m sure many will think I’m a crackpot but I really do have nothing to hide & don’t understand why you think this mantra is ‘absurd’?

Many years ago in the 1980’s there was a push to have families create a child identification kit at home to speed the process if a child went missing. In that kit was a recent photo, fingerprints, and an old toothbrush and hairbrush in a baggie to be used for DNA.
I volunteered to help get kids fingerprints on the card. It was a very strange experience in my 20’s to take the fingerprints of little children for a card to be used to identify them if they went missing, or had passed away and were not easy to identify.
I was mindful of this when my kids came along to keep recent photos but I did not have my kids fingerprints done.

A Google search and I found it- evidently it is still going on today.

Child Identification Kits – Texas Center for the Missing

centerforthemissing.org

JMO

 

[Moonglow630]

If a person volunteers DNA to law enforcement, I am almost certain that it is stored. Just like fingerprints. The FBI has my fingerprints because of what I do for a living, and I am certain that they are in a collective database that can be run at will.

If you have information that DNA is destroyed after collection and exoneration, I would appreciate it. But I just can't see law enforcement destroying such a potential treasure trove.

My opinion.

I’m assuming the DNA I volunteered for my Ancestry site is stored somewhere. If it wasn’t, how would LE have caught the Golden State Killer? And my fingerprints were first checked by FBI to work at a bank decades ago, & then for a permit, so I’m sure those are stored somewhere as well. But seeing as though I’m not a criminal, I don’t sweat it…..much. Still is kinda Big Brother.

 

[10ofRods]

Agreed, this case seems to have brought every retired detective, cop and FBI agent out of the woodwork to chime in with their opinions. I’m not sure any of them are helping.
The variety of points of view would be almost comical if this wasn’t such a horrific case.

Why is SG the only parent to speak out like this and share information to the public?
What do the other parents think of him sharing details?
Do any of the families have an attorney? It seems an attorney would help.

The only multimurder case I can compare this to is Delphi, and the behavior of K’s family is so very different. LE did not do everything right in Delphi, but they did earn the trust of the families and community.

JMO

I have to smile since it's likely more people are reading what we're posting here (or they're reading over on reddit), and LE seems to think that amateur sleuths and websleuthing is the problem - not the retired FBI agents, etc.

Michelle Martinko murder in 1979; Jerry Burns (who didn't live too far from me) convicted by DNA on a drinking straw removed by LE from the garbage at Pizza Ranch. No warrant. Garbage is not private once it's thrown away.

Which is what I have been saying. Many no warrant situations, including trash. Car door handles. Coffee cup.