ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 22

[drmrgrl]

No, X and M worked at Mad Greek, not K.

X and M belonged to the same sorority.

 

[WildWest]

The odds are that the dog was crated in the other bedroom.

I mean, that's what dog owners do with younger dogs..

We always kept our dog in a crate at night...always...dog never slept outside the crate at night.
.
Yes, many owners crate them in the same room that they're sleeping in, but the girls may have fallen asleep "where ever" and Kaylee may have planned to return to the room with the dog. It would also make sense that Murphy's crate was in another room.

So many possibilities!

 

[gliving]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

If one victim was stabbed while sleeping on their stomach, their injuries might not appear as gruesome as a victim who was laying on their back. Either way is equally fatal.

Legal eagles, if one victim is found to be the target because they brought "trouble" to the house, can their estate be sued for wrongful death? How does that work? tia

 

[EmmieA]

Yeah I'm honestly not sure at this point. Surely their cells place them somewhere and if they went to Pullman to pickup online JITB order then traffic cams or store cams would have captured them at some point. They could've just gone somewhere to be alone.

However IMO it seems they're looking for 'physical' sightings and I can only assume it is to sight them and/or person(s) with them. Perhaps if speculation of argument/fight at frat party are true maybe looking to see if E had any facial marks from earlier in the night and not from the actual murder?

Update:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1599987089265000449

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

Absolutely. But a lot of people think E was killed bc he heard something upstairs & confronted the killer — However that goes against the coroner saying the victims were most likely sleeping

MOO

…sometimes coroners make mistakes. It’s a conceivable and logical theory. E very well may have confronted the killer and then been chased back into the bedroom on the second floor where he and X were killed. Having fought intensely with fear - based adrenaline and epinephrine rushing through his system…E’s heart was racing. The 8-10 pts. In the average human tends to empty quickly in this scenario. Could even explain the seeping blood on the exterior concrete beneath E & X’s bedroom floor.

 

[Strong1]

Update:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1599987089265000449

I'm confused. I thought they seen leaving the party? Also, "likely"?

 

[KellyK99]

So it would seem that LE really doesn’t know where X and E were for most of the night - but they do seem to know when they returned to the house. I’m wondering if all 6 students were awake at least for a short while after everyone got home around 2am. That could explain how LE know when they all got back but if that was the case you’d think they’d all talk about their nights and the survivors could help police with the timeline.

 

[kmartin96]

They do, Inside and outside but just because they have cams dosn't mean they can identify everyone.

I just have a lot of questions about the CC..

Did the girls meet up with friends?
Was anybody buying them drinks?
Was there a altercation of any sort?

A lot of posts about a guy at the grub truck and i think it's good to be mindful that there could of been 5 or so interactions at the CC with people that looked out of place instead of lynching one guy.

MOO

Taking off from your posts about all the questions you have (and we all have, IMO)...ties right into what Kaylee's parents are saying. Last night, they were back in Moscow, on the ground, talking to Lawrence Jones.....and they want to literally, audibly, hear LE asking these questions.....K's poor mom lies awake at night with her mind racing with these

I think her dad would love nothing more than an alpha/super-intense/fire in their belly investigator (think a personality mix of Hank Voight, Jack Bauer and Vic Mackey) to take this town by storm. And if it was my daughter and her best friend that was also like a daughter to me were so brutally slaughtered....I believe I would have the same feelings as this dad. I think my husband would be talking to anyone who would listen, in order to keep their story fresh and alive.

SG has said repeatedly "I don't want to be that guy....I don't want to HAVE to do it"....but he sure the damn well WILL do it unless/until someone in LE steps up. Sorry, but IMHO - SG has the right to go "scorched earth"- And our family would do the same

 

[Charlot123]

We know how it goes, weve all been to high school. Somethings just come easier to some kids. You see those rich beautiful kids with their party house and new cars and all their friends, kids that dont have those opportunities feel slighted and hold *advertiser censored* agaisnt people who have been given a disirable life. I would say kids living in a 3 story party house are probably more taken care of then those in that apartment. If this were the case still something had to trigger them. Maybe you have somewhat of a carrie situation, no sexual assault is what its stumping me. Seems very personal. Dont think anyone would think they were bold enough to commit and actually get away with 4 murders. Maybe someone was waiting for x and e to come home, my understanding they were at home for majority of the night and then went to the frat house for a minimal amount of time and returned home before K and M. Then you may have blood transfer leading up the steps telling that he didnt have to go up the stairs. I feel as though SG is on a state of madness, he doesnt believe this should have happened to his daughter making it seem as she was not the target, thats why he is so upset. I dont think they were sleeping together, it says likely, i think they were either corralled together after encountering the perp or was aware of something going on and went to M's room being in fear and then calling ex bf for help

Sounds the girls were not only rich and beautiful (both are respective terms, anyhow), but also hard-working. Both had good grades, both invested time in social connections, so you can't say they just got all from parents. And this is something one could be jealous of, too, after all, they were born bright and smart. However, essentially, what the narrative tells me is that the world is mean. It hates less-than-perfect looks and brains, but then it hates smart and good-looking people, too, to such a degree that some of them might pay with their lives to satisfy someone's jealousy.

As to SG, I would not judge him harshly, if at all. The way i view it, he sent his daughter to the University to get education, not to be violently killed. He is proactive, yes, but not unreasonably so, for example, he tends to rely on the knowledge of a seasoned criminal investigator, not on clairvoyance. Most of all, he lost his child, he is grieving, we have no right to judge him.

They can't obtain DNA without probable cause and perhaps even a warrant, both of which are pretty high bars.

It really isn't a right to privacy as much as it is a 5th Amendment right, which is fundamental. A successful PR campaign by authorities (and media) over the last 50 years that it somehow implies guilt doesn't negate that absolute right. Anyone, innocent or not, shouldn't talk to police without an attorney present, and they certainly shouldn't be volunteering personal identifiers for a stored, collective law enforcement database.

The whole "if you had nothing to hide, you would do it" mantra is absurd.

My opinion.

It is complicated.

Imagine this. To obtain a hair with a root for mitochondrial DNA, one probably needs either the owner's agreement, or a warrant.

But what if a balding man, invited to a PD for an interview, loses his hair on leaving the said department? Who can prevent LEO to pick up the hair and put into an envelope to keep? It is not stealing as the visitor is balding and sheds hair. Nor is the LEO "obliged" to return the hair to his "rightful owner", who might have lost the right to the hair anyhow.

It is another thing that maybe, legally, having this hair amounts to nothing, as there was no chain of custody. But to use it for mitochondrial DNA comparison, the LEO can, and probably should, if he suspects the visitor, to rule him in, or out.

And if the mito DNA matches that left at the CS, well, at least LE knows that investing into Parabon services is a decent idea.

What I want to illustrate: if someone drinks and leaves DNA on the cup, or sweats and leaves DNA on leather club chair, or loses hair - when leaving his DNA, he loses his right of ownership to it. This DNA is unfit for trials only because of chain of custody issue, but if there is a match, eventually, there will be a warrant. We have no right to own our shed material, it is dust on the floor.

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

Amid a frenzy of speculation, police are saying little about reports that one of the victims may have had a stalker.

The killer who crept past two sleeping women to murder four of their friends on the floor above them

Police have no suspect, no evidence and no clear idea how a killer could stab four people to death in an Idaho home without waking up their housemates. WARNING: Some readers might find the details in this story distressing.

www.abc.net.au

Officers entered the residence and found two victims on the second floor and two victims on the third floor.

During the search of the home, a dog was found in a room where the crimes had not been committed. Officers did not find any evidence on the dog and there was no indication the animal had entered the crime scene.

If another has really been attacked 600 kilometres away, what does this suggest?

What DNA do police have of the prospective perpetrator, and have they used DNA to build a physical profile of the perpetrator?

Moscow Police Reference resources and summary:

King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

 

[Sillybilly]

Hey everyone,

Websleuths is fact based and rumors are NOT allowed at all. Rumors grow legs. Don't even hint at them or mention them or sure as guns we'll end up reading somewhere on the internet that "well, if i recall, it said at Websleuths that blah blah .....".

Thank you.

 

[The Observer]

I'm confused. I thought they seen leaving the party? Also, "likely"?

Yes it was stated early on they was seen leaving at 9pm. If they were 'likely' there as LE stated, then why would LE themselves be seeking information regarding whereabouts!? IF hypothetically E and X were in a room together at frat house then LE would know their whereabouts still. You're left to just shake your head at this point.

 

[Curiosa20]

Thank you for the links. All I can tell you there are hoops to jump through and it is not as easy as it sounds to get an autopsy during a criminal investigation, whether LE gets them sealed by a judge or asks for the ME's cooperation, IDK. And LE rarely release them to family. Imo.

You’re so welcome.
I so understand how complicated, devastating and frustrating everything can become.
I also believe there is abuse of power sometimes. Stonewalling in the name of investigative integrity is a real issue.
Since the Spokane County ME policies are clearly stated, I don’t see how it could be a matter of “cooperation”. And if a gag order was in effect, that would have to have been made public, too. So there is none.
So far, the local MPD, Captan Lanier, has only asked that LE be “trusted” as to why the crimes may have been targeted. Would the autopsies provide insight or answers for the families? How would their knowledge of details compromise the investigations? If that was the concern, that would be made clear by a request for a gag order, which so far does not exist.
Based on his veiled outcry, I suspect SG and his family have seen the results and are doing their best to respect the murky official processes and shoddy communication. . IMO

Idaho police refuse to say why they think four murdered students were targeted: ‘You’re going to have to trust us’

Officials still have not named suspect or found murder weapon as investigation stretches into second week

sports.yahoo.com

 

[Seattle1]

I’m 44 and if my boyfriend don’t answer I’ll call him back to back until I decide its time to send one word text. Looks like this:
Hello????
??
Really
Not responding
Ok..
I’ll play this game too

‍True story.

Lol. Similar to how Kaylee's sister explained how she engaged in power calling. Blocked me? She'd call in reinforcement (hence Maddie's 3 calls).

 

[May234]

Last night I started at thread 19 and caught up to the end - now I’ve had to skip ahead to here, so I apologize if I repeat things have already been said, but I have a lot of thoughts on this. Mostly, they relate to the concept of, we the public really know nothing at all. Even the things we think we know aren’t certain.

“Cleared” Contacts: I have no doubt that LE knows or suspects far more than they are saying. I think it’s highly likely that one (or more) of the previously considered contacts who have supposedly been “cleared” are actually being watched pretty carefully.

The Target: Do KG’ more brutal wounds necessarily mean she was targeted? Could it have been that she woke up as MM was being attacked and/or she fought back, and one or both of these events further enraged the attacker? It could even be possible that, in a very dark room, the attacker didn’t realize she was in the bed as he attacked MM - until she moved, at which point he became more enraged.

The Handprint: a lot was made of this…it could have been left by literally anyone who had been in the house the previous few weeks.

“Means of Death”/“he/it didn’t have to go up the steps”: a lot was made of this in previous threads. We just have to remember on these examples and in listening to what he may say in the future that this poor man just lost his daughter, probably hasn’t slept, and is not a detective nor behavioral analyst, nor the like. He doesn’t know the official meaning of “manner (“means”) of death, of which the possibilities are natural, accident, homicide, suicide, undetermined. And if he did mean HE (the killer) didn’t have to go up the literal steps to the 3rd floor, I don’t think we can even take much from that without knowing what he’s basing that on -
some piece(s) of evidence, or pure grief?

Undiscussed Evidence: again, LE must have way more than they are sharing. In such a violent scene, wouldn’t there have been bloody footprints? If so, they could possibly reveal the order of attack (ie, were there bloody tracks going both up and down the stairs indicating X and E were killed first?) An an approximate shoe size be used to rule out potential suspects?

Community help: the entire community is shaken, of course. But it seems like the killer would have quite a few wounds that the victims inflicted on him in their own self-defense. Likely some of those were somewhat significant. I HOPE that anyone who noticed anything strange on a friend would mention such to LE.

The University: I could be wrong because I obviously missed a lot, but it it seems like no one has really discussed that being a university staff member (professor, teacher’s aide, coach, literally anyone) doesn’t make one immune to evil behavior. In fact, this person carried out this elaborate crime without being seen or heard and got away unscathed (at least unscathed enough as to not draw attention), having “successfully” (for lack of another word) killed 4 people - 100% of the people who may have identified him. He was either very lucky, or smart enough to have a plan and know exactly what he was doing. He had to have known exactly where to strike to silence each victim immediately, incapacitate them quickly, and make sure they were gone before he left the room….ugh, it feels disgusting just to type. But it doesn’t seem like something that just any 20-something kid could pull off.

Murphy: IMO, he’s going to turn out to be very important. Today LE stayed that during the search of the home, Murphy was found in a separate room from where the murders took place and he didn’t seem to have interfered with nor be carrying any evidence. So I am very curious as to exactly where he was found. In a house of 5 roommates, I would think (again, purely MOO) he would sleep in either a common area or, more likely, whatever room his owner slept in. So if he was found in KG’s room, does that suggest that maybe she heard something happening with XK and EC and fled to MM’s room?

Sorry, it’s a lot. I just can’t stop thinking about these poor victims, the two survivors, their families, and turning it all over in my head.

 

[ssnva1]

Lol. Similar to how Kaylee's sister explained how she engaged in power calling. Blocked me? She'd call in reinforcement (hence Maddie's 3 calls).

Yes indeed!! And *69 still works!!

 

[gliving]

Before SM accounts were locked, I think I determined the location of the Sorority event where the Saturday hours of the venue would make for an earlier start and finish.

For example, if the food begins at 4 pm, the band starts at 7 pm, and closing hours are at 10 pm, that would make for an early evening. We also know from Mrs. Chapin's account that the three siblings got dressed up on Saturday and danced the night away.

I've also seen the Moscow PD site seemingly wane back and forth on stating the timeframe the couple attended the Sigma Chi house party and up until today's update, they were limiting the details to E/X being seen at the frat house (no hour stated), and arriving at the King Road residence around 1:45 AM.

Why MPD is back to including 9 PM in the timeline, I'm unsure. Based on experience, I'm inclined to believe various witnesses placed E/X at Sigma Chi during various hours, and when additional evidence revealed one or both were recorded elsewhere, the initial timeline was invalid. The explanation could be as simple as one or both drove to JIB in Pullman, WA, and returned before anybody noticed they were gone. Nonetheless, MPD is charged with accounting for even the slightest departure from the timeline where one or both could have unknowingly encountered their killer.

IMO, LE not publicly acknowledging the Sorority event on Saturday is intentional.

We know E & X were age 20, and only K & M were 21, Idaho's legal drinking age. However, Idaho is also a state with exceptions for underage possession (beer and wine only) private residence, and parent/guardian. MOO

Idaho | APIS - Alcohol Policy Information System

alcoholpolicy.niaaa.nih.gov

I don't think X attended the ball. Not sure when/where she and E meet up that evening but it appears they are together by 9pm.

King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

www.ci.moscow.id.us

Detectives continue investigating what occurred from approximately 9 p.m. on November 12th to 1:45 a.m. on November 13th, when Ethan Chapin and Xana Kernodle were believed to be at the Sigma Chi house on the University of Idaho Campus at 735 Nez Perce Drive. Any interactions, contacts, direction and method of travel, or anything abnormal could add context to what occurred.

 

[docfishbone28]

What my understanding is, a text exchange between parents put X and E at the house watching a movie at 12. ( something about pictures of popcorn and wine glasses)Other info surrounding include that they arrived home at 145 indicating that they had left sometime after 12, possibly to get food, jack in the box receipt. My understanding also that they had stopped by the frat house sometime after leaving at 12 and going back home at 145. If they have survelience of the others coming and going wouldnt they also have them on camera also

 

[mayhem911]

Every move creates more evidence and this killer moved around a lot inside the house. I get the feeling they have it narrowed down to under 10 people. But it's not China the FBI can't just start blaming people and force them to surrender bodily fluids. Remember state lab testing, reviewing video frame by frame, and conducting interviews takes time.

 

[Honest Abraham]

No they have already said that there was no sexual assault

that’s why i said contrary to what was released