ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 22

[gliving]

Kaylee Goncalves' injuries were "significantly more brutal" - Twitter

https://twitter.com/x/status/1599594713824350208

Thanks! Wish he'd give his source. Was it LE or the medical examiner??

 

[Normamsmiley]

4. This one kind of bothers me... but it also makes sense that no one would know their whereabouts if they were on a date alone together. There simply wouldn't be any witnesses.

I was responding to this and as I typed, the a likely/potential explanation came out of what I was typing.

Basically, because no one uses cash these days I believe it’s almost impossible to do anything without some kind of record. The only place that I could think of where they could go on a “date” without spending money would be the house. IMO, the two wanted to be alone and simply went back to the house for a while - and I “thought” that X’s father stated that she said they were watching a movie - which would make sense then.

I’m now more curious as to how LE is getting the info that they came back at ~1:45. I have always assumed that it came from the roommates saying they all came back around the same time. If that’s the case, IMO: 1- E&K could have hung out for a while and then gone back to the Sig Chi house OR, 2- The roommates could have been mistaken, and E&K were already home and they didn’t realize it.

 

[PrairieWind]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1599594713824350208

That tells me nothing. A reporter saying it is "confirmed" but not referring to a source. That is just rumor. I have heard a similar rumor that it was Madison that was more brutally injured. Neither rumor seems to comport with the coroner's statement.

 

[kittythehare]

Wouldn't they need the autopsy reports to compare details? The death certificate would only tell cause of death. Thanks!

No.
They also have an opportunity to view the bodies of the deceased. @Seattle1 put up a link about that yesterday.
Upon viewing they would be able to see wounds and compare with M's experience.
Autopsy report will only go to LE.

 

[Celt1997]

UNIV. OF IDAHO MURDERS COPS FIND VICTIM'S ALLEGED STALKER... No Connection To Killings​

University of Idaho Murders, Cops Rule Out Victim's Alleged Stalker As Suspect

Idaho police believe they've identified the potential stalker of one of the murder victims, but are saying there isn't enough evidence to connect them to the killings.

www.tmz.com

God, I hate that headline. They believe this guy is the reason that K THOUGHT she may have had a stalker, and they're not even 100% certain about that. There could be a completely different guy who was her "stalker" and now this guy (who will probably get doxxed because that's what people do these days) has to go around with people calling him a creepy stalker.

 

[gliving]

No.
They also have an opportunity to view the bodies of the deceased. @Seattle1 put up a link about that yesterday.
Upon viewing they would be able to see wounds and compare with M's experience.
Autopsy report will only go to LE.

Thanks!

@Seattle1 Do we know if the families viewed the bodies? Thanks

 

[Diddian]

The biggest takeaway regarding Murphy (the dog) for me is that he was found in a room where the murders didn’t take place. By the logic, I’m assuming the culprit wasn’t hiding out in this room (ie, DNA), waiting on the individuals to return. I’ve certainly suspected this a slight possibility, but it narrows it down when you consider the layout.

It could certainly be a bias, but it also consumes my belief he has been in the house previously, or had knowledge from a remote view.

But, it is possible Murphy was placed in that room by the perpetrator(s) before OR after the murders were committed.

Consider these possibilities:
- Before the murders, perpetrator(s) remove Murphy from the house temporarily (either into the yard or into a parked car - could even be a car of one of the residents of the home. Could be crated or not.). After the murders, perpetrator(s) return Murphy into the house and lock him in a room so he will not discover and alert anyone to the murders while the perpetrator(s) are still nearby. Murphy is subsequently found by LE when they search the home.
- Before going to bed for the night, one of the victims places Murphy into a room. He sleeps through the night (or if he awakens during the murders, he doesn’t bark or at least doesn’t bark loud enough to awaken the first floor residents). He is subsequently found by LE as they search the home.

In either case, I’d expect Murphy to bark or scratch to go out to potty long before noon, which sounds like the earliest time LE might have discovered him in the home. Perhaps Murphy was litter-box trained, so could relieve that need in the room he was in.

 

[kittythehare]

That tells me nothing. A reporter saying it is "confirmed" but not referring to a source. That is just rumor. I have heard a similar rumor that it was Madison that was more brutally injured. Neither rumor seems to comport with the coroner's statement.

Well you can watch the entire special if you wish.
You asked for a source and that is what I provided.

 

[ktm44]

Wouldn't they need the autopsy reports to compare details? The death certificate would only tell cause of death. Thanks!

There may have been something K's dad noticed that he found very disturbing that may have not affected actual autopsy results but also something that deviated from what he believed.

Obviously someone with a knife isn't concerned about leaving a tidy crime scene and regardless where he started and finished, I would suspect they worked quickly.

One parent spoke of defensive wounds but I would also suggest that if someone woke up and sat upright, under certain circumstances, there could be non fatal facial injuries that would horrify any parent.

 

[Balthazar]

I'd like to know Brian Entin's source for Kaylee's injuries being more brutal than the other victims. He just posted this which seems to contradict his previous statements. I also doubt LE would tell Mr. Goncalves details about the other victims' injuries.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1599843723218915328

His source was Mr. Goncalves. Dad of slain Idaho student Kaylee Goncalves says daughter or friend was targeted

 

[10ofRods]

So, last night, a WSer (sorry I've forgotten your name - PLEASE add more to this discussion if you can)...reminded us all of the Danny Rolling case (Gainesville Ripper).

This serial killer (who killed up to 5 people in one setting and over a fairly short period of time, IIRC) did not know his victims and instead apparently looked for situations that met his criteria for easy kills. He admitted later that there was a sexual assault component to some of these killings, but I don't know if that was the case for the 5 students he killed (decapitating only one of them). He had been on a burglary spree.

He used a military style Ka-Bar knife.

His crimes were spaced out, geographically and it took some good noticing by police that the crime in Gainesville was connected to another similar crime in Shreveport. One key part of catching him was that he said "deeply disturbing things" to a woman who invited him over to dinner after meeting him at church. She reported it to police.

After capture, he said his motivation was to "become a Superstar like Ted Bundy."

Author Sondra London wrote a well-researched book about it, The Making of a Serial Killer.

For me, this comprises an entirely different set of scenarios than ones I've posted about earlier. He also made sure his victims were silenced by applying duct tape while they were sleeping and then killing them, IIRC. He took the duct tape with him in most cases and died by lethal injection.

 

[ArmChairDet]

The biggest takeaway regarding Murphy (the dog) for me is that he was found in a room where the murders didn’t take place. By the logic, I’m assuming the culprit wasn’t hiding out in this room (ie, DNA), waiting on the individuals to return. I’ve certainly suspected this a slight possibility, but it narrows it down when you consider the layout.

It could certainly be a bias, but it also consumes my belief he has been in the house previously, or had knowledge from a remote view.

With little evidence, I am leaning towards him waiting in the house. Possibly the unused bedroom. Seems unlikely that he would have sat on a hill waiting for their return.

 

[NickoD]

Just my two cents. I saw a case where a forensic genealogist took the DNA from a database from one of Genetic Kits ( 23 and Me, ect. ) and tracked DNA and solved a murder case, it was a woman who was doing the Genetic Kit and turns out one of her relatives committed the crime. His DNA was not in a database but because one of his relatives did this genetic testing the case was solved. So apparently there is a database of unconvicted people.

You're probably thinking about the Golden State Killer case. His relative did not simply do a genealogy test but also uploaded the results to GEDmatch. If individuals choose to provide that information voluntarily to GEDmatch that's fine but 23andMe, Ancentry.com, etc will NOT do it for you.

Here's how GEDmatch works: The Magic Within Your DNA | How it Works - GEDmatch (note option 4 on that page giving your consent to law enforcement)

 

[Bhodie]

I was responding to this and as I typed, the a likely/potential explanation came out of what I was typing.

Basically, because no one uses cash these days I believe it’s almost impossible to do anything without some kind of record. The only place that I could think of where they could go on a “date” without spending money would be the house. IMO, the two wanted to be alone and simply went back to the house for a while - and I “thought” that X’s father stated that she said they were watching a movie - which would make sense then.

I’m now more curious as to how LE is getting the info that they came back at ~1:45. I have always assumed that it came from the roommates saying they all came back around the same time. If that’s the case, IMO: 1- E&K could have hung out for a while and then gone back to the Sig Chi house OR, 2- The roommates could have been mistaken, and E&K were already home and they didn’t realize

I was responding to this and as I typed, the a likely/potential explanation came out of what I was typing.

Basically, because no one uses cash these days I believe it’s almost impossible to do anything without some kind of record. The only place that I could think of where they could go on a “date” without spending money would be the house. IMO, the two wanted to be alone and simply went back to the house for a while - and I “thought” that X’s father stated that she said they were watching a movie - which would make sense then.

I’m now more curious as to how LE is getting the info that they came back at ~1:45. I have always assumed that it came from the roommates saying they all came back around the same time. If that’s the case, IMO: 1- E&K could have hung out for a while and then gone back to the Sig Chi house OR, 2- The roommates could have been mistaken, and E&K were already home and they didn’t realize it.

Just throwing out a thought because I've heard of at least one of the bedroom doors having a key code entry lock and others may have. Some of the key code locking mechanisms log entry. I have a key code lock used to access a building and depending on who enters the building an alert is sent out either via email or texts ( users preference). If this were the case, and its just a random thought, perhaps they have that knowledge of when the key code was used.

 

[Jealoushe]

Still curious about KGs dad comments about LE pinning families against each other...based on the actions of the victims and the word "targeted".

Makes it seem like a suggestion that one or more of the victims were acting out and that was the cause of them being "targeted".

Thus parents being mad about the one/or more victims who acted this way causing this.

All speculation by me from what I gathered in that News Nation clip.

 

[Diddian]

Dog could very well have been tucked in with the two surviving members of the household as they were home first.

Could have been, but as a longtime dog owner, I expect Murphy - (ETA: if he went to bed at with a surviving roommate anytime before 3 am) - would have needed to relieve himself long before approximately noon. I guess we don’t know if either of the surviving roommates left their rooms to accommodate that need.

 

[10ofRods]

You're probably thinking about the Golden State Killer case. His relative did not simply do a genealogy test but also uploaded the results to GEDmatch. If individuals choose to provide that information voluntarily to GEDmatch that's fine but 23andMe, Ancentry.com, etc will NOT do it for you.

Here's how GEDmatch works: The Magic Within Your DNA | How it Works - GEDmatch (note option 4 on that page giving your consent to law enforcement)

But Ancestry and 23andme have cooperated with LE when there's a subpoena. It's getting more and more common. At any rate, early reports by a certain NG about DNA being found have not at all been confirmed by LE, so I'm despairing a little that they have any perp DNA.

I sure hope they do - because if they do, they'll find him.

 

[thx4_medic_Babby]

But, it is possible Murphy was placed in that room by the perpetrator(s) before OR after the murders were committed.

Consider these possibilities:
- Before the murders, perpetrator(s) remove Murphy from the house temporarily (either into the yard or into a parked car - could even be a car of one of the residents of the home. Could be crated or not.). After the murders, perpetrator(s) return Murphy into the house and lock him in a room so he will not discover and alert anyone to the murders while the perpetrator(s) are still nearby. Murphy is subsequently found by LE when they search the home.
- Before going to bed for the night, one of the victims places Murphy into a room. He sleeps through the night (or if he awakens during the murders, he doesn’t bark or at least doesn’t bark loud enough to awaken the first floor residents). He is subsequently found by LE as they search the home.

In either case, I’d expect Murphy to bark or scratch to go out to potty long before noon, which sounds like the earliest time LE might have discovered him in the home. Perhaps Murphy was litter-box trained, so could relieve that need in the room he was in.

Good thoughts; thank you! I’ll even admit, I wasn’t thinking clearly and misremembering there are 6 bedrooms as opposed to 5. It also doesn’t specify, but would you consider it reasonable to assume Murphy was shut in a specific room? I’m just curious about him browsing the residence and crime scenes. If he did have to relieve himself, it was have been isolated to his confinement (room).

It’s likely a red herring; just food for thought.

 

[Zinn]

There has to be much more to the stalker claim than this. People go out to meet other people all the time, and there is nothing unusual or stalker-ish about this scenario. The man didn’t make contact with K, whether he changed his mind, was too shy or intimidated or a million other reasons. It appears he followed a pretty girl into store. So?

Being followed inside a store and while exiting to walk to one’s car can feel intimidating. This might have been one of those cases in which Kaylee surreptitiously took a photo of him with her selfie lens, causing him to turn away. Or perhaps got on her phone for a sense of security. Those are behaviors her family members have described were typical of her as she often received unwanted attention that gave her an unsafe feeling. So impossible to know if this person was merely shy or effectively deflected by Kaylee in some subtle way. I am not suggesting Kaylee perceived this particular person to be a stalker, nor am I suggesting he was involved in the murders, but I disagree that following someone is normal and harmless.

 

[Justice101]

But Ancestry and 23andme have cooperated with LE when there's a subpoena. It's getting more and more common. At any rate, early reports by a certain NG about DNA being found have not at all been confirmed by LE, so I'm despairing a little that they have any perp DNA.

I sure hope they do - because if they do, they'll find him.

Very optimistic that with the hundreds of swabs at the CR, they will find the perpetrator's blood and thus DNA.