ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 23

[WildWest]

I considered that too, but I am thinking the coroner said stabbed in the chest (?) Would the aorta be quick enough? He would have had to strip the blankets down? I just don't get the 2 girls in one bed. It had to be done so quickly.

Towards the beginning when X's dad said "bruised and torn" my mind went to thrashing instead of precise stabs. I once assisted in a necropsy on a deer, an elderly woman had been using her bb gun to pop them in their behind to get out of her yard when they jumped her fence for like 40 years. This time unfortunately she missed as it turned to run and of all things a bb pellet went between the ribs and it died. That was my immediate thought on "bruised and torn", rage/hate driven stabs and dumb luck similar to the old lady.

Two other thoughts imo, I keep wondering if KG had more wounds because in her pictures she appears stronger than the other girls and SG said she always wanted to keep up with her boy relatives regarding physical activity while growing up. Second, if he did incapacitate them he could have done precise stabbing.

 

[Deepinthought52]

I've seen a few comments about lawsuits against the home owner, but I don't understand the reason that there would be lawsuits.

What do you see as the reasons?

Agreed. People try to feel control by suing those not responsible because they can’t get money or justice from those who are. A good attorney for the property owner could have plenty of reasons to win a case like that though. Especially if there were no documented complaints before this event and depending on what rental contracts said. IMO.

 

[AuntTricia]

Me too, 6 at the most. Slide door open, sprint lightly upstairs on adrenalin, maybe 2 minutes for the two, downstairs, confront E (which I think happened). Possibly < 1 minute for him, push him back in, kill X who by that time saw him coming. Possibly took longer for her than the others. Back out, 5-6 min max. to end 4 vibrant unique lives.

Could take a bit longer if the killer removed bloody outerwear/booties before leaving. Bagged clothing. Bagged bloody knife. Maybe 10 minutes at the most.

 

[drmrgrl]

IMO LE trying to retrace their steps that evening tells us nothing as this is just basic police work after a murder.

It would be cool if LE could do a re-enactment of the night in question to flesh out peoples memories. Riverside PD did that w/Cheri Jo Bates murder and was somewhat successful

 

[Satch]

Does this sound like a cold case?

Snipped: Detectives continue processing and working through more than 2,645 emailed tips, 2,770 phone tips, and 1,084 digital media submissions

Not yet,

It's still too current. I agree with another poster. By the first of next year, we will hopefully have something.

Satch

 

[smalleagles]

I missed the earlier discussion surrounding what happens to the property where mass murders such as this one occur. I've noticed some things about this, as my best friend was at Stoneman Douglas during the shooting in 2018. The school campus is made up of several buildings, and the shooting only occurred in one building, so that one building was blocked off.

The building had to be left up for the trial (lights still on inside, blood on the floors, student's belongings inside) and students who chose to return to school in the weeks after 17 were killed there were bothered by the presence of the building and called for it to be taken down. Now, all the students who were present that day have graduated. The building doesn't really hold that emotional weight for the students who attend now. The ones who survived are now largely apathetic to the existence of the building - they no longer have to see it every day, so they don't care what's done with it.

It's easy to see why the city of Parkland might just choose to remodel the building and re-open it, especially because many classes are still conducted in portable trailers there because of the loss of classroom space. Additionally, surviving students have many times asked for a permanent memorial to be placed on site or elsewhere in the city, but have been quieted because the well-to-do area & government feel a memorial would "bring down property value."

FWIW, MSD, Saugus High School, Oxford High School, and Great Mills High School have been reopened with little to no renovations after their respective shootings.

I think in this case it's likely the house will be remodeled inside & changed aesthetically from the outside. As others have said, college town property is in high demand. And, like with Stoneman Douglas, in a few years all the students present at U of I during the murders will have moved on. It will just become a legend for incoming students, who won't be emotionally attached to the property. And although it's a nice idea, I think the likelihood of a memorial to the 4 students being erected on the property is very low.

Sorry for the long post. I just think about MSD a lot because of my personal connection to it & am appalled the students who wanted a memorial were suppressed.

 

[NuttMegg]

Without a scream or waking up others on other floors through the process.....

i think E/X heard something. But the others downstairs, no way.

 

[WildWest]

Y
Yeah, the point is the point. The Rambo knives would probably bounce off unless someone very powerful were throwing them.

You might guess he threw them?

edited for grammer.

 

[ChitBrick]

Thank you for posting this.

IMHO, this might be significant. The dog was inside the house when LE arrived. LE says that they don't know if the dog was in the house when the murders happened. That indicates to me that the dog might have been let inside the house by the killer, because surely LE would have noticed where the dog was initially at when they arrived? And, as a separate issue, most dogs would IMHO at least bark if something was going on with their owner, even if locked in another room. More to the point, IMHO the killer might suspect that the dog would do so, and might be heard, so IMHO this might indicate that the killer had reason to believe that the dog wouldn't do so, which IMHO indicates that the killer knew the dog (Assuming the killer knew the dog was there).

Just my opinion, but I think it's worth considering the possibility that the dog knew the killer, and thus was not a threat to the killer, not a hindrance to the killer or killers. That might explain why the dog is still alive.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[drmrgrl]

I'm sure this has been addressed.
But any idea if the girls had any house help?
Maid, Grocery delivery, Tutors, Dog Walker, House Sitter, Window Cleaner etc....

Good question.

 

[WildWest]

The axe throwing bars are trendy in the hipster community. It’s basically darts for the bearded and flannel-wearing community, or maybe like hackey sacks or frizbees for the non-hippie sect. I don’t think the axes used are particularly vicious, but I suppose anything can be if used for murder.

Thank you, I did not know.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I'm over the hill and I have never heard of that. But I have been out of the bar scene for a few decades. I can't see it happening at a bar, maybe a independent club like skeet shooting competitions? What I DO know is that the axes/knives that are used throwing competitions are special nor useable for what we know them for. Not like a knife most of us know, but thin and special weights distributed to throw properly.

This axe below will NOT chop wood for example.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BL0U71Y/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

It's been a thing for a while apparently.

Ax Throwing and Beer, a Fun New Combo in Brooklyn (Published 2018)

At Kick Axe, a “sports” bar in Gowanus, patrons hurl axes at wood targets.

www.nytimes.com

Axe-Throwing Bars Are A Hot Trend, Despite What You Think Could Go Wrong

Axe-throwing bars are the hottest trend in group activities. And yes, the proprietors insist they're safe.

www.forbes.com

Release Your Inner Rage With Manhattan’s Live Axe

Looking for a way to get rid of your inner anger? Live Axe may be your place.

www.forbes.com

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Sleuthers you need to watch the news video of the girls at the food truck, they was so drunk they had a lot of trouble walking straight, the food truck guy ran their food to them as they jumped into a black Ford Sudan leaving a guy in a grey hoodie standing lurking at them?
The food truck owner gave the food to the girls because they had trouble paying do to intoxication, JMO
Could there be more than one killer, it would be very hard to control a situation of killing 4 people in a dorm house on separate floors, JMO

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

i think E/X heard something. But the others downstairs, no way.

The floor is structural timber or PGI steel? It makes quite a racket if there is a commotion

 

[What's up Doc]

The axe throwing bars are trendy in the hipster community. It’s basically darts for the bearded and flannel-wearing community, or maybe like hackey sacks or frizbees for the non-hippie sect. I don’t think the axes used are particularly vicious, but I suppose anything can be if used for murder.

Please, axe throwing is common. Nothing to do with hipster communities, bearded, flannel-wearing people. They are a somewhat new entertainment for many states.

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

Sleuthers you need to watch the news video of the girls at the food truck, they was so drunk they had a lot of trouble walking straight, the food truck guy ran their food to them as they jumped into a black Ford Sudan leaving a guy in a grey hoodie standing lurking at them?
The food truck owner gave the food to the girls because they had trouble paying do to intoxication, JMO
Could there be more than one killer, it would be very hard to control a situation of killing 4 people in a dorm house on separate floors, JMO

Were they drunk or drink spiked with a drug like GBH/GBH that metabolises as alcohol?

It happens. Often with females which has them staggering, in many cases confusing it with alcohol

In such a place full of university students, a much higher propensity for such perpetrators.

If toxicology is fast enough, it might show up, otherwise will appear as alcohol consumption in toxicology report.

imoo

 

[What's up Doc]

Sleuthers you need to watch the news video of the girls at the food truck, they was so drunk they had a lot of trouble walking straight, the food truck guy ran their food to them as they jumped into a black Ford Sudan leaving a guy in a grey hoodie standing lurking at them?
The food truck owner gave the food to the girls because they had trouble paying do to intoxication, JMO
Could there be more than one killer, it would be very hard to control a situation of killing 4 people in a dorm house on separate floors, JMO

I watched the video. Yes, K was staggering, leaning against the food truck, but M wasn't near as bad. No the food truck guy didn't run their food to them, you can see he passed it from the window. M had trouble ordering and paying for the food with her phone (who hasn't). But they did pay for the food.

 

[Rosieann]

Daily mail is reporting potential legal action from SG against local law enforcement . It was also reported he has hired private investigators .
at this point after three weeks with no knew information being reported to the families ( not public) can we blame him ?

 

[EncyclopediaBrownJr]

I have no set theory, I change my mind constantly as to what could’ve happened and because of that my thoughts below will contradict each other but I think they’re all worthwhile thoughts to share…

Do we know if any of the victims bedroom doors were locked upon LE arriving? I know there has been some talk over locks being changed and why but I personally wouldn’t find locks on their individual bedroom doors unusual given it’s a party house. I would however find it odd that they would lock their bedroom doors when there’s no party particularly given how close they all were with each other and the *alleged* carefree attitude they had with locking the main house door. I can imagine a scenario though where the 2 surviving housemates went to bed at a normal time and because they were unsure who would be coming in and out of the house that night they locked their individual bedrooms doors when they went to sleep. E, A, K and M all came home much later and given the time figured no one would be hVing any parties or people over so they went to bed and didn’t bother locking as they knew it was just the housemates home. This also fits in for me if the 911 call was passed around to multiple people… the only scenario I can imagine multiple people needing to take the phone and speak to emergency would be because they were hysterical. That also IMO fits in with them calling friends to come over first - they weren’t thinking straight because they had seen something. I take the reports of an “unconscious person” with a grain of salt as that sounds very much like it has come from the operator at some point, as in “are they breathing” etc “…you believe the individual is unconscious” then that being relayed to police/ambulance. I’ve heard very graphic deaths referred to by emergency operators as an unconscious person. I also can’t imagine 20 or so year old girls using that terminology in that moment, even if they hadn’t seen a body. It just sounds very formal.
I guess my theory here is maybe the entire house was targeted by some random psychopath unknown the the occupants and he/she DID try to go into the lower level rooms but they were locked.

My other thought is, and others I’m sure will be able to speak of this more than me… could the perp have entered through the 2nd floor sliding door via the bush land on Walenta Drive and not have actually realised the lower floors had bedrooms? I’m not sure what house styles and layouts are typical there, however personally thinking of houses where I am I would assume that lower level is a garage if I only saw the house from the back/sliding door/deck side. The fact that cars were parked in front of that lower level also looks to me like they’re all parked in front of a garage (if I didn’t notice the windows that is).

Anyway, that’s my ramblings of the moment. No doubt I’ll change my mind again in 5 minutes time!

We don't know if the doors were locked. It's possible they were unlocked or left open and the perp was able to walk in and then lock the doors on the way out. We just don't know.

Also if you notice on Walenta, there's a sidewalk running parallel with the woods behind the crime scene. With the leaves falling recently, it's possible the killer was walking along that sidewalk and noticed the house through the trees. I would love if somebody from that area could walk that path along the sidewalk and see what the vantage point would look like.

Anybody local up for it?

 

[drmrgrl]

Although psychopathy isn’t classified in the DSM-5, a characteristic shared by psychopaths is that they have some form of personality disorder (formally diagnosed or otherwise). So, in essence, a psychopath could potentially have some form of mentally ill.
Edited for typo & better wording

IMO, Sociopathy/Psychopathy/Antisocial Personality Disorder are sometimes used interchangeably, although, I think there are slight differences between them. ASP is the personality disorder named in DSM. Sociopathy and Psychopathy are qualifiers, with one apparently being worse than the other. Sociopathy vs Psychopathy