ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 25

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IMO: just to add a slightly different perspective to this observation. In the UK the legal drinking age is 18 so as a broadly sweeping generalisation - drinking culture is pretty big at university and binge drinking is very commonplace. I’m sure these types of reports would definitely not stand out at most university towns in the UK. The point I’m trying to make is that if there was a link between alcohol related incidents amongst a college age population and mass murder - you would expect there to be a lot more of it in the UK but there isn’t. Therefore I am personally (and respectfully) struggling to see the relevance of this horrible crime and college kids doing what they do everywhere which is drink too much, push boundaries, have fun etc. and that certainly doesn’t deserve them of the tragedy that happened in this instance. IMO
To be clear I am not discussing the students that were murdered and placing blame on them whatsoever. I want that to be clear.

I may disagree with much of what you said, but I also don't want to derail this thread off topic so I will stop with this conversation.
 
Otto is of course correct about fitness watches. They collect data (stored on the device for fairly long periods) about heart rate. I am wearing one right now (Apple watch). I can go and look at my heart rate for a 30 day period (easier to use the app on my phone, but the data is on my watch). I can't remember which other crimes involved fitness watch data, but there are some in the crime annals.

So if even one of the four victims was wearing an Apple watch or Fitbit, that would give a clear ToD for that person and therefore an estimate for the others.

***SPECULATION AHEAD***

Your post made me wonder about a lot of things. I too believe the house was watched. So, we can call that Peeping Tom behavior. In this scenario, the perp has a sexual motivation for this fixation and behavior.

I believe the perp either had access to the house before this fixation was developed OR that he went into the house (perhaps often) after the fixation developed. So now we have a form of stalking bordering on burglary (and we have no clue if this perp took things from the house - the residents themselves might not have noticed),

Perp may then have tried to ingratiate himself into the lives of the people in the house, attending their parties, etc. College students can be quite snippy to people they regard as problem people (which is how this guy may have appeared - not a student, perhaps more than a little "weird" from the POV of the young people in the house). The fact that the house was accessible (and observable) almost 24/7 is part of this case.

The fantasy "love affair" the perp was having with one or more of people in the house was destroyed by actually meeting them and being rebuffed. In this scenario, the perp suffers from a not-so-rare mental condition where they flip on people, going from love to hate in an instant. It's often bizarre and brutal to witness. It's often seen in stalkers.

Perp may not have seen the two downstairs residents often or at all. Perp may have regarded the 4 victims as a kind of "team" who had purposefully excluded him from all hope of human happiness, as he was fixated on one of the them (one of the young women would be the best guess). If in the perp's mind he had an unrequited fantasy relationship with K, then K's departure from the house would have triggered the perp, perhaps inducing actual psychosis, and when K returns briefly, he acts out his psychotic worldview. Psychotic people are often capable of being organized enough to hide the trail of their crime, but if this theory is correct, the perp will have spent many hours over many days thinking through what he wanted to do (because the love fantasy is now replaced with a revenge fantasy and he can't function without his fantasy life).

If this scenario is correct, it's possible that some of the roommates had noticed the "weirdo" inside their house or even asked him to leave if he was inappropriate (likely) at parties. And the odd thing is that many times, young people do not feel the need to be super-vigilant about such people, idealistic as they can be. I know I never thought much about the guy who moved into a spaced outside my room in a large shared house. I mean, I didn't like it at all, it was a covered and screened porch space and there he was, night after night, mostly just sleeping there. I mentioned it only to 1-2 people at the time. It seemed normal, I assumed the guy was a student. I knew people who were living rough while I was at uni, I figured he was just a clever one of those. The house I lived in did not lock its front doors, we all just locked our room doors. It was and still is open 24/7 for anyone to come in and out (except for major vacation periods).
This makes me wonder if there was a handyman that may have been called to routinely handle repairs at the home. Rental house with owner not on site.
 
Could his request be an attempt to have information be released to the families, and not necessarily to the public? From interviews, it sounds like he is really frustrated at the lack of information that he (as a family member) is being given. Sometimes it's just comforting to be able to know that there is progress being made. Or, if there is not, to get answers as to why.

LE always seems to want families to cooperate with them during investigations. Well, "cooperation" is a two-way street.

As an aside: The dad looks like he's about to go full "Taken" in the town of Moscow. Not that I blame him, but LE should spend some time trying to talk him through the "anger" phase of the grieving process.
Disagree with your last sentence. L E are not trained grief counselors. They can help connect the familieS (plural) with counselors, but to sit down and assume that responsibility, no, imo.
 
I’ve been really bothered by the positioning of the house in relation to its surroundings. It almost looks like a “jewel box” sitting up on display. Especially with blinds open & lights on. I imagine I would have felt “on display” in it. Perhaps hindsight influences my impression, but I don’t really question how this house could have easily been targeted.
I live way off a road in the woods with large windows across the front of the house, and I feel on display after seeing pics of this house. I'm closing my blinds now when I never have before.
 
***SPECULATION AHEAD***


The fantasy "love affair" the perp was having with one or more of people in the house was destroyed by actually meeting them and being rebuffed. In this scenario, the perp suffers from a not-so-rare mental condition where they flip on people, going from love to hate in an instant. It's often bizarre and brutal to witness. It's often seen in stalkers.
so i tried thinking about this theory and while i imagine the actual act of stabbing could be arousing for the killer, i just feel like there would've been more let out by the coroner/ME in regards to placement of stabs vs just in the chest/abdomen.
 
There's a forensic specialty called "blur analysis" that uses various techniques to analyze blurry photos and obtain way more detail than we can with our eyes - or our monitors.

I believe blur studies were already a thing in the 1960's, as there were a couple of blur specialists looking at JFK assassination pictures by around 1966. Today, of course, these studies are much more detailed and elegant. A blurry photo submitted for this kind of analysis can provide a lot of information, just as can a blurry fingerprint.

Here is a technical article (there are many):


Hey Rods! Nice to see you :)

This reminds me, I came across something the other day, haven’t looked at it yet. But I remember seeing this and thinking to myself, how have I not come across this before? (Or maybe I forgot...). Whatever the case, here’s the link in case it’s useful. I haven’t looked into it at all yet.


“What is FotoForensics?

FotoForensics provides budding researchers and professional investigators access to cutting-edge tools for digital photo forensics. FotoForensics is designed and organized for rapid analysis. With a little experience, an analyst should be able to evaluate a picture in minutes.”

 
You guys, this Dad is not supposed to know how LE works. He's not supposed to be acting rationally or doing anything that we might deem normal. His entire internal self is has gone haywire. NOt saying he is crazy but in times of grief, we do not process info like we should. We can short circuit. If it were me, I'd prob be hospitalized by now, tbh.
Ima say we need to give this poor soul some grace. Questioning his judgment, judging what he says, remarks about what he might do next make me personally very uncomfortable. Our role is not to judge him - but to help him.
Each family should have a victim's advocate to support them and answer their questions. Someone needs to explain why LE can't share details about the investigation with him.
 
they have not mentioned stolen at all, as far as i'm aware.

i would like to make it abundantly clear that those of us saying/guessing it could be stolen is based on the fact that Hyundais are currently being stolen at an extremely high rate in many cities. (here is a SOURCE: Thieves are increasingly targeting these 2 types of cars, study finds)

it is PURE SPECULATION and should not be taken as fact that this particular car they are looking for is stolen
*MOO*

This has been made pretty clear

People have stated it is their opinion only that the vehicle could be stolen because the car is a white vehicle high in the number of mass production. Seasoned criminals use high production vehicles in white because they are hard to sight in traffic surrounded by many others.

It's not a black Range Rover, with I love Moscow decal on the back window. Imoo
 
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If it was that guy, I would have thought police had a suspect by now.

This appears on the surface to be a bit more sophisticated. Finger prints, DNA don't appear evident as yet.
It would appear, with the very limited information, that's not arisen yet.

Under the circumstances, stabbing four people inside a home with such a brazen act when other people might be coming and going as you say, is high risk and a messy crime that should leave identity evidence

A fellow student, or similar age person goes in and stabs four people to death without a sound and the sliding door is open?

Im not sure this is who we are dealing with here

This feels like someone incited fear opposite the frat house knowing their dna wont turn up on a database after entering a house where the crime scene is somewhat preserved

A few weeks later, there's barely a car on the radar in an urban residential crime in a time with modern technology.

I dont think this is local. This is not serial. This is not compulsive.

Finger prints and dna probably won't be on a database.

The ferocious attack suggests - this is sending a message imoo
Good post.

What do you think the message is? To whom?
 
One of the first cases I followed here was the disappearance of Lauren Spierer in Indiana. The police released a couple of pictures of a white pickup truck that the wanted to locate that we sleuthed for a really long time. Eventually, the truck and its driver was found and cleared. It wasn’t suspicious at all, just a person out early for work. She has never been found. It isn’t uncommon for them to release things they have no idea about.
for sure, definitely could end up not really meaning much if anything. I just think that they probably have had this information for more than a day or two and i trust that they evaluated the potential usefulness and decided it is worth their time.

*MOO*
 
Could his request be an attempt to have information be released to the families, and not necessarily to the public? From interviews, it sounds like he is really frustrated at the lack of information that he (as a family member) is being given. Sometimes it's just comforting to be able to know that there is progress being made. Or, if there is not, to get answers as to why.

LE always seems to want families to cooperate with them during investigations. Well, "cooperation" is a two-way street.

As an aside: The dad looks like he's about to go full "Taken" in the town of Moscow. Not that I blame him, but LE should spend some time trying to talk him through the "anger" phase of the grieving process.
This is probably his mission, but it doesn't work this way.

A civil suit against a public entity over information release is going to take years, if it isn't thrown out of court almost immediately. The father has no particular rights above what any person has in a case like this.

If he's very angry, I'm not sure LE are the best people to be talking to him and walking him through the grief process. I think it's way better for LE to treat him as they do any other family member of a victim of a terrible crime (which it appears they are doing).

I think the father is not a true crime aficionado and doesn't realize what many of us do - that LE has no legal obligation to share investigations with anyone except the courts and the DA (and there are very strong legal reasons why).

Misinterpretation of the data in the possession of police could lead an angry parent to very unwise actions.

What SG is doing will probably end up with him getting less, rather than more, information. More flies with honey, etc. I'm sure he's been assigned a contact officer/person (who is probably not in the middle of the investigation).
 
This has been made pretty clear

People have stated it is their opinion only that the vehicle could be stolen because the car is a white vehicle high in the number of mass production.

It's not a black Range Rover
I disagree, as the person i was replying to asked why LE thinks it's stolen

*MOO*
 
so i tried thinking about this theory and while i imagine the actual act of stabbing could be arousing for the killer, i just feel like there would've been more let out by the coroner/ME in regards to placement of stabs vs just in the chest/abdomen.
The name of such a person would light up in the minds of everyone…if so, LE has the name
 
I would think he wants clearer communications to himself and the families, but then the article has him talking about wanting information to be "peer reviewed." That's not how an investigation works. Having the average Joe review critical information is how criminals get set free come time for a trial.

"Peer reviewed" is such an odd choice of phrase, really. It usually means " a panel of experts who are at the level of expertise of the purported articles under review. " So this would mean "outside police investigators" would "peer review" what the Moscow PD is doing. That's not going to happen.

I understand that he is very very frustrated and for him, Justice includes rapid capture of the murderer. I think we all get that. But making Moscow, ID pay attorneys (if he files a suit) rather than spend whatever they have on the investigation is a misstep, IMO.
 
This has been made pretty clear

People have stated it is their opinion only that the vehicle could be stolen because the car is a white vehicle high in the number of mass production. Seasoned criminals use high production vehicles in white because they are hard to sight in traffic surrounded by many others.

It's not a black Range Rover
I am unsure if I am allowed to quote news stations but I didn't see rules against it. JB Bueno from WFLA released a livestream saying that the car is not as popular as people think especially in that area of only 26,000 people. If it was stolen they might have wanted to steal a more common car and not white (especially for a crime at night).
 
"Peer reviewed" is such an odd choice of phrase, really. It usually means " a panel of experts who are at the level of expertise of the purported articles under review. " So this would mean "outside police investigators" would "peer review" what the Moscow PD is doing. That's not going to happen.

I understand that he is very very frustrated and for him, Justice includes rapid capture of the murderer. I think we all get that. But making Moscow, ID pay attorneys (if he files a suit) rather than spend whatever they have on the investigation is a misstep, IMO.
I doubt a civil suite would even make it to court. Would prob be thrown out. Right?
 
This makes me wonder if there was a handyman that may have been called to routinely handle repairs at the home. Rental house with owner not on site.
Handymen, repairmen, property management, cables guys, etc. do end up being the perp in a fair amount of cases. Enough to where I am edgy when I have to let one in my house. They have access to key codes and keys, see the layout of the home, etc. Imo.
 
Are all these people being charged with something? Is it a crime to be unconscious or very drunk? I don't think it is, if one isn't driving or operating machinery or being disorderly. If it's not a crime, then there would be no Clery Act requirement for the University to put this information up in their crime tallies.

I posted a link to the Clery Act page of U of I a couple of days ago, but one can find it on their own by going to the U of I Webpage, and clicking on the "About" tab, IIRC and it's there somewhere. I'll try and find it again when I have a chance.
You can be arrested in Idaho for public intoxication. Maybe cops are turning a blind eye and making no arrests for this misdemeanor? I imagine if they arrested every drunk kid they came across in Moscow, the county jail would be at capacity every night!
 
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