ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 25

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This makes me wonder if there was a handyman that may have been called to routinely handle repairs at the home. Rental house with owner not on site.

A handyman would fall into the same category if also involved in voyeurism/intrusive behaviors while in someone's house. Typical, handymen are people who have skills to repair things but are not official electricians, plumbers or carpenters (bonded and licensed properly in those trades - for which it's common that they are not approved unless they lack a criminal background).

I just had another thought. Any overly-friendly (vaguely intrusive) person who had visited the house should be a POI - but, it's possible that the very people who might have been able to give that information are now dead.

It's even possible that if said person was perceived as a creeper by any of the housemates, that they asked the property manager not to send him over any more. Hopefully, the property manager is not afraid of liability issues and has stepped forward with that information - but one never knows. Lots of people, apparently, prefer to stay out of all criminal matters altogether.
 
You can be arrested in Idaho for public intoxication. Maybe cops are turning a blind eye and making no arrests for this misdemeanor? I imagine if they arrested every drunk kid they came across in Moscow, the county jail would be at capacity every night!

True - but it's discretionary (up to the cop). Further, a lot of these unconscious people are on private property at the time, which doesn't qualify. Also, the intent of the law is to prevent disorderly/other criminal behaviors (such as randomly touching people on the street). An unconscious person is not a threat to public safety and the first imperative is to triage and provide medical support - it's a serious condition, whether alcohol induced or otherwise.

And of course, you are right - they'd have to stop and arrest every pedestrian who appears intoxicated, to be fair in their approach to the law. The ones up and walking around are indeed capable of public conduct that's outside the law - but someone down on the ground, unconscious is not. The cost of attempting to push all those cases through the courts would probably bankrupt Moscow and yes, they'd need a very large jail and booking system.

As with most college towns, this is considered acceptable behavior these days (my uni was in a dry town and it's still a dry town). And I remember the days of blue laws in many states (some still have them), which did cut down on student drinking but making sales illegal at certain hours and on certain days (specifically, from midnight on Saturday night until Monday morning in one locale where I lived). Moscow ID is interesting because the majority of the students are from out of town, and therefore residential students (as opposed to commuting).
 
I am unsure if I am allowed to quote news stations but I didn't see rules against it. JB Bueno from WFLA released a livestream saying that the car is not as popular as people think especially in that area of only 26,000 people. If it was stolen they might have wanted to steal a more common car and not white (especially for a crime at night).
You can familiarize yourself with the rules of the forum by reading the first page of this thread. If you quote from MSM (mainstream media) you need to provide a link to an approved MSM source
 
I am an NYC car idiot and can't tell car models apart. Walking to get the paper this morning, I saw four of this car (I now know what the logo looks like), three of them white, in a block and a half. I think this might be tough for the cops to narrow down.
I don't think so. The numbers for those years are listed here: Hyundai Elantra - Wikipedia

Cars have to be registered and licensed, so they'll know how many are still on the road, which ones have been totaled and gone to car heaven, how many have been stolen, etc. then they can narrow down by location. By knowing the car make and model, they can work from the small area (the four corners of the map one must cross to gt to the house) and then work from cameras back from there.
And for families that might have a kid, the cops can just show up and knock on the door for some questions. What I can't figure out is why LE has let this out to the public because if they didn't want to, they didn't have to.
 
I am unsure if I am allowed to quote news stations but I didn't see rules against it. JB Bueno from WFLA released a livestream saying that the car is not as popular as people think especially in that area of only 26,000 people. If it was stolen they might have wanted to steal a more common car and not white (especially for a crime at night).
Is this the one? :)


 
Are we assuming the white vehicle in question is associated with the video surveillance detectives are/were looking for, involving: W. Taylor, W. Palouse River, Highway 95 S, Arboretum and Botanical Garden?
if you look at the map, if the killer drove to the location, they had to cross one of those four boundaries. even if they walked they crossed one of those four streets, so yes, LE would ID within the boundary and follow outwards, not vice versa. start with the narrowest pool, narrow down from there.
 
I don't think this is a good idea at all as the police, FBI are still actively working on it they have not given up and are in the midst of things. I get he is hurting and we ALL want answers now, but the reality is that many times it does not happen like that, it is so far from what we see on TV. The fact is his emotions are getting ahead of logic and emotions can be detrimental to the case. If there were some fault on any agencies part we will know much later but 1 months is not nearly enough time to solve comb through the lives of 4 murder victims looking for answers, its just not.
All of this makes me think he has someone in mind as the killer, and I think he suspects there's a connection to one of the housemates who died. MOO!
 
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Thanks.
 
Otto is of course correct about fitness watches. They collect data (stored on the device for fairly long periods) about heart rate. I am wearing one right now (Apple watch). I can go and look at my heart rate for a 30 day period (easier to use the app on my phone, but the data is on my watch). I can't remember which other crimes involved fitness watch data, but there are some in the crime annals.

So if even one of the four victims was wearing an Apple watch or Fitbit, that would give a clear ToD for that person and therefore an estimate for the others.

***SPECULATION AHEAD***

Your post made me wonder about a lot of things. I too believe the house was watched. So, we can call that Peeping Tom behavior. In this scenario, the perp has a sexual motivation for this fixation and behavior.

I believe the perp either had access to the house before this fixation was developed OR that he went into the house (perhaps often) after the fixation developed. So now we have a form of stalking bordering on burglary (and we have no clue if this perp took things from the house - the residents themselves might not have noticed),

Perp may then have tried to ingratiate himself into the lives of the people in the house, attending their parties, etc. College students can be quite snippy to people they regard as problem people (which is how this guy may have appeared - not a student, perhaps more than a little "weird" from the POV of the young people in the house). The fact that the house was accessible (and observable) almost 24/7 is part of this case.

The fantasy "love affair" the perp was having with one or more of people in the house was destroyed by actually meeting them and being rebuffed. In this scenario, the perp suffers from a not-so-rare mental condition where they flip on people, going from love to hate in an instant. It's often bizarre and brutal to witness. It's often seen in stalkers.

Perp may not have seen the two downstairs residents often or at all. Perp may have regarded the 4 victims as a kind of "team" who had purposefully excluded him from all hope of human happiness, as he was fixated on one of the them (one of the young women would be the best guess). If in the perp's mind he had an unrequited fantasy relationship with K, then K's departure from the house would have triggered the perp, perhaps inducing actual psychosis, and when K returns briefly, he acts out his psychotic worldview. Psychotic people are often capable of being organized enough to hide the trail of their crime, but if this theory is correct, the perp will have spent many hours over many days thinking through what he wanted to do (because the love fantasy is now replaced with a revenge fantasy and he can't function without his fantasy life).

If this scenario is correct, it's possible that some of the roommates had noticed the "weirdo" inside their house or even asked him to leave if he was inappropriate (likely) at parties. And the odd thing is that many times, young people do not feel the need to be super-vigilant about such people, idealistic as they can be. I know I never thought much about the guy who moved into a spaced outside my room in a large shared house. I mean, I didn't like it at all, it was a covered and screened porch space and there he was, night after night, mostly just sleeping there. I mentioned it only to 1-2 people at the time. It seemed normal, I assumed the guy was a student. I knew people who were living rough while I was at uni, I figured he was just a clever one of those. The house I lived in did not lock its front doors, we all just locked our room doors. It was and still is open 24/7 for anyone to come in and out (except for major vacation periods).
Thank you for the kind confirmation regarding smart watch devices and their ability to track sensitive medical activity (with special Thanks to Steve, Steve, and Bill).

Thanks also for the dynamic response to my instincts on the home and the suspected perpetrator of these heinous crimes. I especially liked the *****speculation ahead***** banner! As a newbie, I’m just gaining my footing when posting. I’ll be sure to adopt this style of warning preceding such posts and info. Much gratitude.

Unfortunately, I’ve had the displeasure of multiple encounters of the nefarious kind over the course of my life’s journey. Peeping Toms can be distinguished from the “watchers” by their main objective. Peepers seek to gain sexual gratification through the act of watching someone who has no clue they are being watched. I think immediately of Martha Moxley, and the fact that Michael Skakel was a classic peeping Tom turned homicidal maniac. They are socially awkward, insecure, and have trouble with intimacy. Jealousy and the inability to control the object of their desire will drive them to this state of frenzied panic which in turn ends in murder on many occasions. That’s a dangerous place to be.

The “watcher” in contrast, also enjoys the fact he or she is seeing something which they shouldn’t. Something the victim has little or no idea is even being viewed (in most circumstances). They quickly become fixated and hyper focused on the object of their attention. Their catalyst is sexual gratification of a different kind. They are a totally different beast (think American Psycho). They are ALL about control. They NEED to feel empowered and superior to their mark, to their unsuspecting victim caught clearly in their crosshairs. Our perp falls into this category (I believe), and only derives his genuine satisfaction and a release through a sense of ULTIMATE CONTROL (ending them by his own hand). Yet, we both know control is an illusion. Especially anywhere close to the physical science world. And still, the killer…who more than likely considers him or herself to be the “smartest person in the room” is blissfully ignorant to this fact. No amount of intellect can substitute basic logic, reasoning, and common sense. None.

I agree with you, he definitely “stalked” his victim(s) prior to the homicides. I too, experienced this all too “lax and trusting” attitude while in Uni. Maybe it’s in the rush to be grown ups, that young adults often display such ambivalent and cavalier ambiguity toward any threat? All too often, it ends badly. I pretty much adhere to my own mantra of DTA. Don’t Trust Anyone.

The fantasy love affair paragraph stopped me in my tracks. It’s as if you were describing Elliott Rodger (UCSB) 2014. He had similar problems with the opposite sex, which manifested into a killing spree. Elliot Rodger: How misogynist killer became 'incel hero'

…and as you wrote correctly: he can’t function without his fantasy life. His overwhelming need to control her, to make her love him, includes ending her. It’s the total sense of control and power he is after. He has a narcissistically grotesque self-born sense of entitlement. He’s intent on making his victims pay, and most assuredly made his presence “known” to them immediately prior to and during these killings. That’s a big part of the plan. He is now basking in the glow of these unspeakable crimes. He is ten feet off the ground with a toxic euphoria and an inconceivable sense of twisted grandiosity.

It’s highly likely that another housemate or student witnessed the “weirdo” around on more than one occasion. Yet, he may have focused most of his attention on those he attacked. They were all pretty close, and shared a lot time together. It is amazing how so few people ever used to lock the doors. It’s even more astounding that in 2022, uni kids still consider security to be at the bottom of their priority list. No cameras. No security lighting or motion lights. Broken window locks and doors routinely left unlocked. There’s an invaluable lesson in all of this, tiny fragments of little bits and pieces to be collected and never forgotten. Unspoken words for the wise, to be etched in the stone of the universe…and echoed across the wind for eternity - proving these four tragic deaths have not been in vain. MOO
 
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Are you aware that you can find the owner of a vehicle w/ a VIN number? We can, and LE can. Unless they found a vehicle, without a tag and a vin THEY DO NOT KNOW THE OWNER.

But most importantly, they said they want to know if you own that vehicle so therefore I would believe they do not know the owner.

MOO
If LE isn’t ready for the world to know they have a car in their possession, requesting tips on ownership is a good way to throw people off. The press release clearly focuses on finding info on the occupants, with the word “owner” tossed in once, almost as an afterthought.

LE isn’t asking for info on the cars’ activities after the murders. That tells me they know where the car has been since then. Could have been stolen and returned to owner, could gave been found partially destroyed but more likely was stolen, abandoned, recovered and is now in LE possession.

MOO
 
BBM. Indeed. I can't think of where it was reported, but early on there were reports of investigators looking in or around Lewiston. Doesn't mean they came up with anything there, but it does further suggest that a southern escape is what they likely found, and fairly early.

My opinion.
I had mentioned Lewiston in an earlier thread because I saw that when LE gave out the coordinates, they did not square off the grid but extended the east side, 95s, about a mile past the intersection with Palouse River Dr. When you plot it out, it looked like an arrow pointing south.

I followed it down to Lewiston and came to the Memorial Bridge over the Clearwater River which looks like a wonderful place to dispose of bloody clothes and sharp knives.

When LE put out the 3:00 am to 6:00 am timeline for which they would like ring or other camera footage and reports of unusual activity, I thought perhaps they had a vehicle coming and going on 95s. That river is about an hour from Moscow so you could drive down a very rural road, in the wee hours of a Sunday morning, and would see very few vehicles. You could throw your discriminatory evidence off the bridge and be back well within the 3 hour time frame.

That is just one of the many and varied theories that have floated through my head since this very sordid and perplexing case came to light.
 

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I think I've read virtually all threads on this case and still looking for more clarification on the timeline in the morning and the 911 call the surviving roommates made. It's my understanding that the roommates were home (at or around 1am) and slept or at least stayed downstairs until close to noon the next day. Do we know if they thought it odd that the other roommates weren't up? Do we know if they ventured to the 2nd, or 3rd floors? Were the bedrooms of the victims closed, or locked? Thank you.
 
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