ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 25

[Bailey1926]

Could have been stolen and returned to owner, could gave been found partially destroyed but more likely was stolen, abandoned, recovered and is now in LE possession.

I want to believe they recovered a vehicle but in that case, wouldn't they have the year identified instead of a range?

 

[LizWords]

I want to believe they recovered a vehicle but in that case, wouldn't they have the year identified instead of a range?

Yes. They would know an exact year if they had the car or at least know who owned it. I think a lot of people are creating meaning in LE's statements that just isn't there.

 

[Peppery]

You need a power of attorney, imo. This will be especially helpful when he goes to college.

A parent needs POA for a 13 year old? Aren’t parents automatically POA of their minor children? And once a child turns 18, who’s to say they will agree to that? I know it’s probably not relevant to this case, but college students are considered kids when convenient and adults when it’s not.

 

[ansrali]

Something worth pointing out is that an Elantra (even 2011-2013), (like a ford focus,) comes as a sedan and/or hatchback... seems like a really distinctive feature to leave out when describing the car? Especially if it's in LE's possession?

 

[CrownCowboy1]

I think I've read virtually all threads on this case and still looking for more clarification on the timeline in the morning and the 911 call the surviving roommates made. It's my understanding that the roommates were home (at or around 1am) and slept or at least stayed downstairs until close to noon the next day. Do we know if they thought it odd that the other roommates weren't up? Do we know if they ventured to the 2nd, or 3rd floors? Were the bedrooms of the victims closed, or locked? Thank you.

My apologies if I missed this throughout all of the threads but I too have the same questions.

 

[OldCop]

Handymen, repairmen, property management, cables guys, etc. do end up being the perp in a fair amount of cases. Enough to where I am edgy when I have to let one in my house. They have access to key codes and keys, see the layout of the home, etc. Imo.

And let’s not forget FedEx drivers.

 

[TooMuchGun]

I had mentioned Lewiston in an earlier thread because I saw that when LE gave out the coordinates, they did not square off the grid but extended the east side, 95s, about a mile past the intersection with Palouse River Dr. When you plot it out, it looked like an arrow pointing south.

I followed it down to Lewiston and came to the Memorial Bridge over the Clearwater River which looks like a wonderful place to dispose of bloody clothes and sharp knives.

When LE put out the 3:00 am to 6:00 am timeline for which they would like ring or other camera footage and reports of unusual activity, I thought perhaps they had a vehicle coming and going on 95s. That river is about an hour from Moscow so you could drive down a very rural road, in the wee hours of a Sunday morning, and would see very few vehicles. You could throw your discriminatory evidence off the bridge and be back well within the 3 hour time frame.

That is just one of the many and varied theories that have floated through my head since this very sordid and perplexing case came to light.

u think its possible LE already knows at least 1 occupant of the Elantra and wants to observe their movements after the car announcement?

 

[ansrali]

I think I've read virtually all threads on this case and still looking for more clarification on the timeline in the morning and the 911 call the surviving roommates made. It's my understanding that the roommates were home (at or around 1am) and slept or at least stayed downstairs until close to noon the next day. Do we know if they thought it odd that the other roommates weren't up? Do we know if they ventured to the 2nd, or 3rd floors? Were the bedrooms of the victims closed, or locked? Thank you.

Nothing has been clarified except that the roommates called friends who lived nearby, and then the call was placed around noon on one of the roommate's phones from inside the residence. (please correct me if i'm wrong)

 

[accordn2me]

I had mentioned Lewiston in an earlier thread because I saw that when LE gave out the coordinates, they did not square off the grid but extended the east side, 95s, about a mile past the intersection with Palouse River Dr. When you plot it out, it looked like an arrow pointing south.

I followed it down to Lewiston and came to the Memorial Bridge over the Clearwater River which looks like a wonderful place to dispose of bloody clothes and sharp knives.

When LE put out the 3:00 am to 6:00 am timeline for which they would like ring or other camera footage and reports of unusual activity, I thought perhaps they had a vehicle coming and going on 95s. That river is about an hour from Moscow so you could drive down a very rural road, in the wee hours of a Sunday morning, and would see very few vehicles. You could throw your discriminatory evidence off the bridge and be back well within the 3 hour time frame.

That is just one of the many and varied theories that have floated through my head since this very sordid and perplexing case came to light.

It such a narrow timeline they’re asking for. Isn’t it possible that these boundary lines could have been crossed much earlier and much later than 3-6am on Nov. 13?

 

[Emerald1328]

I think I've read virtually all threads on this case and still looking for more clarification on the timeline in the morning and the 911 call the surviving roommates made. It's my understanding that the roommates were home (at or around 1am) and slept or at least stayed downstairs until close to noon the next day. Do we know if they thought it odd that the other roommates weren't up? Do we know if they ventured to the 2nd, or 3rd floors? Were the bedrooms of the victims closed, or locked? Thank you.

We don’t have that information. We don’t even know if it was one of the surviving roommates that made the call.

On November 13th, the surviving roommates summoned friends to the residence because they believed one of the second-floor victims had passed out and was not waking up. At 11:58 a.m., a 911 call requested aid for an unconscious person. The call was made from one of the surviving roommates’ cell phones inside the residence. Multiple people talked with the 911 dispatcher before Moscow Police arrived at the location. Officers entered the residence and found two victims on the second floor and two victims on the third floor.

https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24891/12-06-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update

edit: while it may seem unusual to some, there are a lot of reasonable explanations for all the information in the above paragraph so IMO, no shade should be thrown.

 

[Karin1974]

Last eve on the previous thread, OTTO wrote two very interesting possibilities. ETOD could have been based upon a Fitbit watch, which recorded increased heart activity - before stopping completely. This is beyond fascinating (if this is factually possible via FitBit), and the infinite applications for such info remains endless. Can anyone confirm or deny this capability on a Fitbit?

In the last paragraph of his post, Otto laid out the scenario of the killer “watching” the house, occupants, party happenings, and bedroom windows prior to the attack. I too, support this possible theory. I believe it’s probable that he may have had a “favorite” spot selected among the brush and trees…where he could remain fully obscured from view. He would merely have to relax and watch the girls finally shut off the lights, before waiting about 30 - and then entering the home via the suspected POE: slider off kitchen. His mind was already set and intent on killing that night and his “plan” fell into place almost exactly as he visualized.

He must feel super-human right now. Riding on a “house of cards” tidal wave of presumed “power” from robbing the most precious commodity humans have: life. Four of them. Vibrant, hopeful, and standing eagerly at the gates of the future…before he effectively wiped them all completely off of the planet.

This is the crime of which nightmares are made. The ones which keep us all awake late at night. The variants and complexities of the crime scene must be simply overwhelming. The LE and CSI’s have an uphill battle and a late start with this total nightmare. My heart goes out to each one. They are working a seemingly impossible case, while climbing insurmountable odds to pursue and uncover the killer. They’ll be in this for the long haul. The odds are in their favor, as long as they never give up.

Hi, I have a Fitbit Sense, it captures all sorts of data including my heart rate, I have a Fitbit app on my iPhone & when I go for a run, the app tracks the data from my Fitbit to show exactly where I’m going, how fast I went, how my heart rate fluctuates, the number of km’s I ran & I can access the map of exactly what streets I was running on. It also tracks my sleeping patterns, how many calories I burn & so much more. MOO

 

[Mad Hettie]

Sounds like a sting to me. Like those hitman for hire ads.

That would make sense.

 

[Walela]

If the owner of the vehicle and/or passengers do not come forward to authorities soon, it will cast suspicion on them.

There's already suspicion and speculation on them. IMO, it's possible they are part of the student group not returning to campus. It's possible the vehicle has a parking permit for on campus parking. It's possible they did see the perp and do not want that person to come after them if they themselves are publicly identified.

 

[Sandy007]

I want to believe they recovered a vehicle but in that case, wouldn't they have the year identified instead of a range?

They may have car recovered (its anyone guess at this tine) but they do not want people to know that yet. As some old cops tough us on this site, for which we are really grateful (!), LE does such things time to time in order to mislead the perpetrator. As long as LE got the murderer soon off streets, this is fine by me

 

[gliving]

I want to believe they recovered a vehicle but in that case, wouldn't they have the year identified instead of a range?

True this. But LE is asking if anyone saw the car. If I happend to see a white Elantra I wouldn't know if it was a 2011 or a 2022. So maybe LE gives a three years range so as not to exclude possible sightings.

Or maybe not.

 

[10ofRods]

Thank you for the kind confirmation regarding smart watch devices and their ability to track sensitive medical activity (with special Thanks to Steve, Steve, and Bill).

Thanks also for the dynamic response to my instincts on the home and the suspected perpetrator of these heinous crimes. I especially liked the *****speculation ahead***** banner! As a newbie, I’m just gaining my footing when posting. I’ll be sure to adopt this style of warning preceding such posts and info. Much gratitude.

Unfortunately, I’ve had the displeasure of multiple encounters of the nefarious kind over the course of my life’s journey. Peeping Toms can be distinguished from the “watchers” by their main objective. Peepers seek to gain sexual gratification through the act of watching someone who has no clue they are being watched. I think immediately of Martha Moxley, and the fact that Michael Skakel was a classic peeping Tom turned homicidal maniac. They are socially awkward, insecure, and have trouble with intimacy. Jealousy and the inability to control the object of their desire will drive them to this state of frenzied panic which in turn ends in murder on many occasions. That’s a dangerous place to be.

The “watcher” in contrast, also enjoys the fact he or she is seeing something which they shouldn’t. Something the victim has little or no idea is even being viewed (in most circumstances). They quickly become fixated and hyper focused on the object of their attention. Their catalyst is sexual gratification of a different kind. They are a totally different beast (think American Psycho). They are ALL about control. They NEED to feel empowered and superior to their mark, to their unsuspecting victim caught clearly in their crosshairs. Our perp falls into this category (I believe), and only derives his genuine satisfaction and a release through a sense of ULTIMATE CONTROL (ending them by his own hand). Yet, we both know control is an illusion. Especially anywhere close to the physical science world. And still, the killer…who more than likely considers him or herself to be the “smartest person in the room” is blissfully ignorant to this fact. No amount of intellect can substitute basic logic, reasoning, and common sense. None.

I agree with you, he definitely “stalked” his victim(s) prior to the homicides. I too, experienced this all too “lax and trusting” attitude while in Uni. Maybe it’s in the rush to be grown ups, that young adults often display such ambivalent and cavalier ambiguity toward any threat? All too often, it ends badly. I pretty much adhere to my own mantra of DTA. Don’t Trust Anyone.

The fantasy love affair paragraph stopped me in my tracks. It’s as if you were describing Elliott Rodger (UCSB) 2014. He had similar problems with the opposite sex, which manifested into a killing spree. Elliot Rodger: How misogynist killer became 'incel hero'

…and as you wrote correctly: he can’t function without his fantasy life. His overwhelming need to control her, to make her love him, includes ending her. It’s the total sense of control and power he is after. He has a narcissistically grotesque self-born sense of entitlement. He’s intent on making his victims pay, and most assuredly made his presence “known” to them immediately prior to and during these killings. That’s a big part of the plan. He is now basking in the glow of these unspeakable crimes. He is ten feet off the ground with a toxic euphoria and an inconceivable sense of twisted grandiosity.

It’s highly likely that another housemate or student witnessed the “weirdo” around on more than one occasion. Yet, he may have focused most of his attention on those he attacked. They were all pretty close, and shared a lot time together. It is amazing how so few people ever used to lock the doors. It’s even more astounding that in 2022, uni kids still consider security to be at the bottom of their priority list. No cameras. No security lighting or motion lights. Broken window locks and doors routinely left unlocked. There’s an invaluable lesson in all of this, tiny fragments of little bits and pieces to be collected and never forgotten. Unspoken words for the wise, to be etched in the stone of the universe…and echoed across the wind for eternity - proving these four tragic deaths have not been in vain. MOO

Wow. Just wow - so glad my post gave you inspiration for this one. SO many good insights. This is the best personality-based description I've read of such a character. One thing you make me think about is this person's post-crime demeanor. I think you are right that this person would not give off a "guilty" vibe or make any real attempt to hide himself.

Your writing style is simply awesome. The only part of this that makes me feel better/spurs me to action is to implore students to be more security conscious. I work at a mostly non-residential college, but we do have dorms. All of them have cameras. Off campus housing is usually with parents, only rarely in the type of situation we see here. But where I went to Uni, this kind of communal living was quite common and we were very stupid about security,

I love your division of the watcher vs. Peeping Tom personae - something I have not reflected upon, and it's a very useful distinction.

 

[TeaTime]

Does anyone know where the girls worked?

 

[Balthazar]

This is interesting. This indicates the car is possibly "on the run" - published within the hour:
"Canadian border authorities told Fox News Digital Thursday that they are also on the lookout for the white Hyundai at the country’s ports of entry." Also states the car they are seeking is not in the police cam video from the drunk call.

Idaho murders: Slain university students' neighbor says front door left wide open after attacks

A neighbor of four slain University of Idaho students killed in their sleep claims that they saw the victims' front door wide open hours after the slayings.

www.foxnews.com

 

[wary]

Everyone's different I guess but I normally wake up thirsty and needing a glass of water, that's after drinking though.
We don't know if they were drinking.
Still, it's a long time to sleep. I'd guess they'd wake at 10 if they went to bed at 1 or 2

My theory is that they woke up, at a reasonable time, went to the bathroom on their floor, grabbed a glass of water from the sink faucet, or maybe a bottle of water, went back to their bedrooms, cocooned themselves in the blankets, snd either went back to sleep, or settled in for some serious phone-surfing.

MOO

 

[OldCop]

It such a narrow timeline they’re asking for. Isn’t it possible that these boundary lines could have been crossed much earlier and much later than 3-6am on Nov. 13?

I agree. But the fact that it was LE that put out those hours tells me they know something. Also, instead of a vehicle leaving the crime scene area and heading back into town a couple of hours later, who’s to say that they didn’t observe someone come into town from the south shortly before the murders and then leave a while later? For some reason, a certain area south of town has been deemed to be important to this case between those hours.