ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 25

[Bhodie]

Hi, I have a Fitbit Sense, it captures all sorts of data including my heart rate, I have a Fitbit app on my iPhone & when I go for a run, the app tracks the data from my Fitbit to show exactly where I’m going, how fast I went, how my heart rate fluctuates, the number of km’s I ran & I can access the map of exactly what streets I was running on. It also tracks my sleeping patterns, how many calories I burn & so much more. MOO

Can it tell the difference when you are awake vs when you are sleeping, I guess based on heart rate?

 

[Arkay]

The fantasy "love affair" the perp was having with one or more of people in the house was destroyed by actually meeting them and being rebuffed. In this scenario, the perp suffers from a not-so-rare mental condition where they flip on people, going from love to hate in an instant. It's often bizarre and brutal to witness. It's often seen in stalkers.

and as you wrote correctly: he can’t function without his fantasy life. His overwhelming need to control her, to make her love him, includes ending her.

This unrequited fantasy “love story,” a love story unknown to the victim/s, has always been IMO the primary and likely motivation.

We see this need for reciprocal love and validation even in celebrity stalking situations. The “fan” believes he or she is bonded to the celebrity, that the celebrity is speaking directly to the “fan,” and if they would only meet, they would have an intensely close, mutually fulfilling relationship.

It doesn’t even have to be a sexual or romantic connection. Just a feeling of overwhelming desire on the part of one to be close to the other. Then they make that attempt, their all-or-nothing consummation of their dream to be together, and they get ignored or shut down.

Then, as you’ve both stated, the burning for ultimate control can lead to the destruction of the idol, or idealized romantic partner.

For example, John Lennon and Mark David Chapman, or the fictional “Stan” about whom Eminem wrote.

I’m open to a different paradigm, though, but I still lean greatly towards this early theory.

JMO

 

[Janitor101]

I’ve been really bothered by the positioning of the house in relation to its surroundings. It almost looks like a “jewel box” sitting up on display. Especially with blinds open & lights on. I imagine I would have felt “on display” in it. Perhaps hindsight influences my impression, but I don’t really question how this house could have easily been targeted.

I agree. One former FBI agent thinks the suspect lives appropriately 3 hours away from the crime scene. How the heck does someone drive 3 hours to single out this certain house in a small town and located on a cul de sac. Unless, of course, he was intent on driving for any length of time in order to settle a score.

 

[10ofRods]

This is interesting. This indicates the car is possibly "on the run" - published within the hour:
"Canadian border authorities told Fox News Digital Thursday that they are also on the lookout for the white Hyundai at the country’s ports of entry."

Idaho murders: Slain university students' neighbor says front door left wide open after attacks

A neighbor of four slain University of Idaho students killed in their sleep claims that they saw the victims' front door wide open hours after the slayings.

www.foxnews.com

Hmmm. So it makes sense that instead of asking the public to BOLO right now (for a presumably armed and dangerous fugitive), they simply sent the BOLO to LE agencies, which is standard, I believe.

But they want the public's help in figuring out where the car was just before the murders.

If this is an accurate report (and it sounds well-sourced to me), LE must have some reason to believe the murderer has gone on the run. I can't imagine alerting Canadian authorities about a make of car if they didn't have some reasonable suspicion.

 

[Bhodie]

I agree. One former FBI agent thinks the suspect lives appropriately 3 hours away from the crime scene. How the heck does someone drive 3 hours to single out this certain house in a small town and located on a cul de sac. Unless, of course, he was intent on driving for any length of time in order to settle a score.

Did he also have a basis for this 3hr distance?

 

[XtremeScorpio]

Damn yall are going fast, I stopped reading at 2am last night (uk time) and yall are already a whole thread ahead. I tried catching up and got to when people started posting about LE asking for the white car but I still had 30 pages to go. Has there been anything else since then news wise?

Same here. It is super hard to keep up. I read thru the first 7 pages of this thread this a.m and the majority of the discussion was basically about the white car in the body cam video. I'm just now picking up where I left off from a few hours ago, starting with page 8. UGH

 

[accordn2me]

Has anyone found out what the two victims the (boyfriend and girlfriends) timeliness is yet ?

It’s almost inconceivable that this bit of information is unknown. Certainly from cell phone records, a complete timeline for these two could be pieced together by now.

If E & X left the frat party and walked back to X’s house, would they have mostly likely entered the house through the kitchen sliding door? Are there no security cameras can see people entering or exiting that door (even if a specific person can’t be identified)?

 

[eyesopen]

Praying there is some good news today!

 

[10ofRods]

This unrequited fantasy “love story,” a love story unknown to the victim/s, has always been IMO the primary and likely motivation.

We see this need for reciprocal love and validation even in celebrity stalking situations. The “fan” believes he or she is bonded to the celebrity, that the celebrity is speaking directly to the “fan,” and if they would only meet, they would have an intensely close, reciprocal relationship.

It doesn’t even have to be a sexual or romantic connection. Just a feeling of overwhelming desire on the part of one to be close to the other. Then they make that attempt, their all-or-nothing consummation of their dream to be together, and they get ignored or shut down.

Then, as you’ve both stated, the burning for ultimate control can lead to the destruction of the idol, or idealized romantic partner.

For example, John Lennon and Mark David Chapman, or the fictional “Stan” about whom Eminem wrote.

I’m open to a different paradigm, though, but I still lean greatly towards this early theory.

JMO

When you add in the celebrity murders (by stalkers), that actually creates a significant category of "fantasy romance" murders. And you're right, it doesn't even have to be a romantic attachment (hence the quotes). I've interviewed inpatients where the thought process (as stated out loud) vascillated between extreme attraction/wanting closeness and extreme anger (at perceived distance by the desired object). The murder of Selena Pérez (aka just Selena) can probably stand adjacent to this category.

At any rate, treating psychiatrists often point out that such stalkerish/ragey behavior corresponds to the person's internal loneliness and inability to form regular relationships. This puts me in mind of data we've received (and are still collecting in the social sciences) about the rather radical drop in marriage, sex, and relationship-formation in the current crop of 18-30 year olds.

Americans are having less sex — and researchers want to know why

One of the most comprehensive sex studies to date found evidence of declines in all types of partnered sexual activity in the U.S.

www.wbur.org

This prompted me to give assignments on this topic even before COVID, when it was first noticed. It's young women who are disinterested in sex. Too many hazards, not really important to them, guys just want sex - not relationships/marriage, so why bother? Career first, desire to have children has dropped steadily over my own data collection/teaching timeline. This parallels the Rise of the Incel ( a culture I have been studying for 15 years - beginning with usenet groups and a now-defunct website; there are other websites for this subculture, which also encourages men to exploit and lie to women, as men have a "right" to do ).

Incel Terms Like Beta, Chad, and Thot Are More Dangerous Than You Think

These five toxic incel terms have become alarmingly mainstream

aninjusticemag.com

I can give more academic sources, but as this is tangential to the Idaho crime, I think these are thought-provoking and will suffice. This second article is worth a look for those people who are not familiar with these subcultures - it's quite clear and has interesting pictures and quotes.

 

[OldCop]

u think its possible LE already knows at least 1 occupant of the Elantra and wants to observe their movements after the car announcement?

It’s possible. If there was more than one person in the car, could he have been an accessory? An accomplice? We don’t know if the Elantra info came from something that was caught on a home security or business cctv in the area. It could have come from a tipster who was walking in the area at the time. In any case, it was in the middle of the night and very dark. I think LE is not sure just yet if there was more than one person in the car. I know I’ve walked or driven by cars late at night that I thought were occupied by several people only to find out it was the headrests’ silhouette that I mistook for a passenger.
ETA Removed reference to bodycam footage.

 

[Aquarian]

Did he also have a basis for this 3hr distance?

This was that detective Gillian/m and he said on Fox yesterday afternoon he changed his view to one hour now. ‍. Did not elaborate as to why.., which would have been helpful . I will look and see if they have this snippet but I think they quickly jumped to the car.

 

[Data Sleuth]

They have car recovered but they do not want people to know that yet. As some old cops tough us on this site, for which we are really grateful (!), LE does such things time to time in order to mislead the perpetrator. As long as LE got the murderer soon off streets, this is fine by me

Is there a source/link for this? I have not noticed any official Law Enforcement announcements stating that they have the car.

 

[calmdownjudy]

Does anyone know where the girls worked?

M and X worked at Mad Greek. (Source: 'You will be greatly missed' | Moscow restaurant remembers University of Idaho students, servers)

K was starting a new job in Texas (source: What We Know About Kaylee Goncalves' Final Phone Activities) It's a lengthy article, so here is the excerpt: "Goncalves was a senior at the University of Idaho and was a member of the Alpha Phi sorority. She was slated for early graduation in December and had already secured work at a marketing firm in Texas, where she had planned to move."

 

[LizWords]

I agree. One former FBI agent thinks the suspect lives appropriately 3 hours away from the crime scene. How the heck does someone drive 3 hours to single out this certain house in a small town and located on a cul de sac. Unless, of course, he was intent on driving for any length of time in order to settle a score.

Plenty of killers have traveled much further than 3 hours to kill their victims. I'm not saying I think this is what happened or agree with that FBI agent, but it's not as unrealistic as you think.

Israel Keyes traveled very very far, all over the country, and chose random targets that met a general guideline of the sort of kill he was looking for, and provided him with the right circumstances to get away with it.

Recently in the news, the catfishing ex-cop traveled halfway across the country to reach his underage victim whose family he slaughtered.

Danny Rollings first killed in his hometown of Shreveport, Lousiana (three people w/ knife, including a child, just to get to the young woman who was his target), and then traveled to Gainesville, Florida to kill five more college students (including one young man who just happened to be with one of his female targets).

Again, not saying the odds are strongly in favor of it being a long-distance traveling murderer, just that it's certainly not a possibility to dismiss.

 

[Karin1974]

Sandy007 posted:



Back in 2012 when Sierra Lamar went missing on the way to her school bus stop in Morgan Hill CA, LE actually had a suspect car very early in the case but did not mention it to the public for nearly two months.

Breaking: Police have car linked to Sierra LaMar | Gilroy Dispatch | Gilroy, California

Home of the Gilroy Dispatch

gilroydispatch.com

Sheriff’s investigators have the car allegedly used to kidnap Sierra LaMar in their custody, and released photos of the red four-door sedan shot by area surveillance cameras.

“Investigators are asking the public to report any sightings of this vehicle and/or occupants during the time surrounding Sierra’s disappearance,” Santa Clara County Sheriff’s Sgt. Jose Cardoza wrote in a press release.

Here in Australia, we have a case of a missing boy & I think, information regarding two vehicles parked opposite from the house he was supposedly ‘abducted’ from was only released to the public approximately 12 months later & because of this, there is still conjecture to this day on whether those vehicles actually exist. MOO

 

[Mad Hettie]

I wonder how attached to the car this person is. Some people would ditch it at this point.

 

[Wallendo]

If the perp were going to Canada, I doubt he would wait four weeks before doing so ... unless this press release by LE was intended to make him run. It would be interesting to know what the Canadians would look for if they found a white Elantra crossing the border.

I suspect LE has know about the vehicle for some time but was probably trying to locate it quietly. I suspect they have spoken to all nearby neighbors and may be trying to reach out to students completing this semester online in hopes they noticed something strange on that night or several days before.

There has always been a sense that LE has specific time frames in mind and must know much more than we realize.

 

[Murphy1]

If E & X left the frat party and walked back to X’s house, would they have mostly likely entered the house through the kitchen sliding door? Are there no security cameras can see people entering or exiting that door (even if a specific person can’t be identified)?

From the frat house they would most likely walk through the front door of the girls' house. No known security cameras have been reported at the rear of the house.

 

[Balthazar]

I agree. One former FBI agent thinks the suspect lives appropriately 3 hours away from the crime scene. How the heck does someone drive 3 hours to single out this certain house in a small town and located on a cul de sac. Unless, of course, he was intent on driving for any length of time in order to settle a score.

So here is everything within 3 hours of Moscow:

3 hours from Moscow, ID

Find cities within a 3 hours radius of me in Moscow, ID and look for places to visit within a 3 hours drive.

withinhours.com

Next question, who is connected to these places? Start with which of the victims and then family and friends.

 

[OldCop]

This unrequited fantasy “love story,” a love story unknown to the victim/s, has always been IMO the primary and likely motivation.

We see this need for reciprocal love and validation even in celebrity stalking situations. The “fan” believes he or she is bonded to the celebrity, that the celebrity is speaking directly to the “fan,” and if they would only meet, they would have an intensely close, mutually fulfilling relationship.

It doesn’t even have to be a sexual or romantic connection. Just a feeling of overwhelming desire on the part of one to be close to the other. Then they make that attempt, their all-or-nothing consummation of their dream to be together, and they get ignored or shut down.

Then, as you’ve both stated, the burning for ultimate control can lead to the destruction of the idol, or idealized romantic partner.

For example, John Lennon and Mark David Chapman, or the fictional “Stan” about whom Eminem wrote.

I’m open to a different paradigm, though, but I still lean greatly towards this early theory.

JMO

Also @10ofRods and @OckhamsRazor22 , I completely buy into the fantasy love story, but why oh why did they not assault the object of their desires when they could get them alone? Does this desire overtake them so profoundly that they have to act that very moment despite the obstacles, (other roommates), in their way?