ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 26

[Sister Golden Hair]

Agreed. I keep wondering what this person actually wore. I'm going with the mask/ski mask theory, but I wonder if he also had some kind of visor or helmet?

And my big curiosity is what light source he had? Were the lights still on in the kitchen so that light would have spilled into X's room? Or was it dark? Surely it was dark up on the 3rd floor? My visor theory doesn't work if he didn't have a light source.

I believe he wore gloves, obviously, and keep pondering whether there would be trace DNA on the bottom of his shoes (probably very little but could be some). I worry that the coroner (who said she'd never had knifing victims before, I believe) didn't dissect the wounds in a manner consistent with trying to find small amounts of stranger DNA (and the process isn't always successful nor is it necessarily well known).

I now believe (after reading media thread) that E and X were living together at the house, so it could have been known to the perp that a man was inside frequently, at night. But to enter a dark room with two people, a man and a woman, without being able to see well enough to figure out their orientation and place in the room, is really audacious.

At any rate, this killer took his clothes and his weapon with him, when he left. IMO.

the coroner didn't do the autopsies. it was the medical examiner in Spokane, Bodies of University of Idaho students in Spokane County for autopsies - KXLY

and plenty of crime in Spokane, so probably not their first rodeo is my guess but only my guess

Crime in Spokane, Washington (WA): murders, rapes, robberies, assaults, burglaries, thefts, auto thefts, arson, law enforcement employees, police officers, crime map

 

[Puzzles8]

just re bit in bold

because of the co-mingling issues I was surprised that cremations happened so quickly.
Apparently the actual pathologist at Spokane is highly thought of but it's not as if any FBI/ISP forensic scientist can go back and do a double check on wounds of 2nd, 3rd, and 4th victims.

I have to think the autopsies were very thorough and must have taken into account exactly your concerns.

I completely understand the family's wishes to inter their loved ones. IMO healing doesn't start until your loved one has found it's final resting place.

JMO

 

[lucidium]

Also, heating oil is essentially diesel. Basically clear in colour.
Not rusty like in that photo.

I agree with OP (@SRWCF) - whatever that was on the side of the house, it was almost certainly not blood. Whether or not it was actually heating oil has no bearing on the argument. OP simply through that out as one possibility. There are dozens of others, imo. Relevant quote:

I personally do not think it was blood because there were never any evidence markers near it. It might have been heating oil. Who knows?!

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

ITA white is the new black! White vehicles everywhere.

it's the most common color of car on the road.

Most Popular Car Colors in America | Edmunds

These are the most popular and least popular car colors in America this year.

www.edmunds.com

 

[watson1]

Do you think the National Reconnaissance Office and the CIA share spy satellite info with local law enforcement to solve a murder case? They don't.

From other cases, they share with FBI, who happens to be involved in this case. Another poster noted the use of satellite imagery in the Vallow murder case in Idaho, for example. But MOO...

 

[rahod1]

I've been thinking about the basic motive of the killer(s) here.

Whatever else occurred in the house that night, the murders themselves seem to have been well planned in that no one awoke until they were attacked (according to LE/coroner reports). No neighbors or roommates were alerted.

4 people were killed with some purpose. It's unknown if the killer(s) planned to kill more.

My theory is that the killing was either very personal (to the killer) or nothing personal/business.

If it was very personal, I'm thinking it was someone acting alone.
If it was nothing personal/business, it may have been more than one killer. MOO

I think it was neither personal nor *business*. If it was personal, then it's highly likely one (or more) of victims interacted and communicated with the killer, or had friends that did so. This would expose them to scrutiny by LE, which is carefully looking at all traces of any contact (direct or indirect) with victims. I don't see this as a *business* hit either for the same reasons. LE is closely examining any contacts who may have had an *axe to grind* with any of the victims. For these reasons, I believe the killer had no meaningful interaction with any of the victims. If they did, they would have identified suspects by now. So, I agree with *nothing personal*... to fulfill the killers need/urge. MOO.

 

[XtremeScorpio]

https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24915/12-09-22-Moscow-Homocide-Update

That link didn't work for me

 

[Honest Abraham]

Citation? I've not seen any LE statements claiming "it is the military knife."

ka-bar is “military style knife” As has been widely reported. I don’t think they said “military knife”

 

[LAhiker]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

"Detectives are aware of a sixth person listed on the lease at the residence. They have spoken to this individual and confirmed they moved out prior to the start of the school year and was not present at the time of the incident. Detectives do not believe this person has any involvement in the murders."

https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24919/12-09-22-Moscow-Homocide-Update-1

JMO

 

[Emerald1328]

I agree with OP (@SRWCF) - whatever that was on the side of the house, it was almost certainly not blood. Whether or not it was actually heating oil has no bearing on the argument. OP simply through that out as one possibility. There are dozens of others, imo. Relevant quote:

I personally think it was blood. Ashleigh Banfield had the coroner Cathy Mabbutt on her show a couple of weeks ago where the coroner seemed to confirm the substance dripping down the exterior side of the house is blood.

Ashleigh: “Ms. Mabbutt, we showed a picture a moment ago of a wall on the outside of the house. It looked like the foundation on the outside of the house. I’m gonna ask the control room to put that picture up again. This was fairly shocking to see. It’s blood dripping on the outside of the house, almost as though it may be seeping from the inside. Does that sound congruent with the results of the crime scene that you were able to ascertain from your work?”

Mabbutt: “Um, from my observations, yes.”

Ashleigh: “And can you tell me if that means this might have been one of the bedrooms or where the beds were that one of the victims was stabbed, this particular area of the house?”

Mabbutt: “I think that’s pretty likely, yes.”

Ashleigh then asked her if there was anything else she could say about that scene and she said no.

I can only find the podcast link. Starts around 30 minutes in.

Banfield: Coroner: Idaho students stabbed to death, were likely asleep on Apple Podcasts

Show Banfield, Ep Coroner: Idaho students stabbed to death, were likely asleep - Nov 17, 2022

podcasts.apple.com

 

[rahod1]

I'd say anyone who chooses to commit murder is taking a "huge risk".

That goes without saying, I was emphasizing that being a known contact of any victims is an order of magnitude riskier than being an unknown person.

 

[Tillicum]

If planned, I think the perp chose a time with no chance of snow on the ground.

 

[ptandj]

Updated link to press release from today (they changed it to fix the typo in the date, looks like): https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24919/12-09-22-Moscow-Homocide-Update-1

 

[XtremeScorpio]

Agreed. I keep wondering what this person actually wore. I'm going with the mask/ski mask theory, but I wonder if he also had some kind of visor or helmet?

And my big curiosity is what light source he had? Were the lights still on in the kitchen so that light would have spilled into X's room? Or was it dark? Surely it was dark up on the 3rd floor? My visor theory doesn't work if he didn't have a light source.

I believe he wore gloves, obviously, and keep pondering whether there would be trace DNA on the bottom of his shoes (probably very little but could be some). I worry that the coroner (who said she'd never had knifing victims before, I believe) didn't dissect the wounds in a manner consistent with trying to find small amounts of stranger DNA (and the process isn't always successful nor is it necessarily well known).

I now believe (after reading media thread) that E and X were living together at the house, so it could have been known to the perp that a man was inside frequently, at night. But to enter a dark room with two people, a man and a woman, without being able to see well enough to figure out their orientation and place in the room, is really audacious.

At any rate, this killer took his clothes and his weapon with him, when he left. IMO.

Wasn't it a full moon that night? I also saw another comment on here that mentioned something about window covers ("if they had them, they didn't use them")
So, if both things are indeed true, then couldn't that be a good light source?

 

[mendicant]

If these crimes were other than random, which do you think, given what you know of the circumstances, is a more realistic motive force: murder because of love (or lack thereof); or because of money; or because of some other factor?

 

[Scvanvliet]

Is there any link confirming the plates on either of those vehicles were not from Idaho?

The link is in the closed thread from yesterday. It is a report from News Nation indicating one of the two vehicles taking investigators from the house had Washington plates. There are several posts about this in the current thread. I was offering my commentary as someone very familiar with the area.

 

[cottonweaver]

The Medical Examiner and/or pathologist can keep important tissue sections etc, for further studies while releasing the cadaver for cremation. Plus they'd have CT scans and MRI records.

Will CT Scans and MRIs Kill the Autopsy?

blogs.scientificamerican.com

thank you

To save me time reading the blog, can you say whether family has to consent to retention of tissue? ( they do over here)

I'd been wondering about ME retaining ' extra' when the discussion came up ( msm) of morticians/funeral directors telling parents about wounds & wondered how such 'storage' might impact wound interpretation to an untrained eye ( untrained forensically)

 

[rahod1]

Exactly why I think there were throats slit.

Not as *easy* as you think. Just jumping on the bed and positioning is enough to disturb both victims. Also, I believe it was stated that victims sustained wounds to TORSO?

 

[10ofRods]

The killings, most would agree, were done with a vengeance; who also sees them as being a direct product of vengefulness?

Welcome to Websleuths!

I believe there was vengefulness, broadly speaking. By that, I mean perhaps the slight was small but the killer doesn't handle even the smallest slight. Or, the killer had spent some time pretending to him/herself (most likely himself) that one of the occupants of the house was supposed to be "his."

 

[mickey2942]

If planned, I think the perp chose a time with no chance of snow on the ground.

Personally, I think it was luck. This appears like a crime of passion. If so, the ground cover wasn't a factor in the killings.