ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 27

[debbiediablo]

1 or 2…just a gut reaction. MOO

1

 

[WildWest]

Either close by. Or, alternatively, if he kills where/when he travels, which is not impossible, then, search for similar MO and think what circumstance could connect the places. I think that potentially, Alaska and Florida can be very much connected if you look at the yearly lists of people who migrated from one place to another, or think of professions that would allow easy travels (expositions, lecturers, seasonal works, ship repairmen).

(Then, of course, visiting relatives, but it is very complex).

Spitballing, speaking of traveling, there are kidnapping and deaths of Indian women, I wonder if a truck driver had hunted on either of the reservations to the N and S of Moscow, ended up in Moscow for a layover and had an incursion with one of the 4 students?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Will there be an arrest before Christmas, yes or no.

No way. Too much forensics to get through and the perpetrator is going to front this one out. Unless some new and very compelling evidence comes out such as recorded footage or someone who suspects someone speaking to detectives.

 

[Allabouttrial]

I thought, early on, that there was significance in the fact that LE specifically named the brand and I still believe this. Ka-Bar, even though they make other knives, is kind of like what Xerox is to photocopiers. People usually envision the GI blade used for years by the US military. To me the most significant features of this blade are the guard and the fact that it is has a full tang which allows for quite a bit of force to be applied without danger of separating blade from handle. One can punch this through a car door. The tip may break, but the blade itself will not.

Hate to be pedantic, and maybe I'm wrong, but I don't believe LE have ever named the brand of the knife used.

Early on there were reports from a local store that LE were asking about one, but AFAIK that's all that has been mentioned as far as the brand is concerned.

 

[gliving]

IF the car was stolen one would think the owner would have reported it by now unless it was parked somewhere long term, like at an airport or stored in a garage and they do not know it isn't there anymore.

Good poing @Walela If this event was carefully planned, they'd make sure there were enough degrees of separation between the Elantra and the killer/s so it won't trace back. This isn't Grandma's car.

 

[acutename]

jmo one thought about the stolen car being reported - potentially, the person could be incapacitated (lives alone, remote location, left dead, etc.) or doesn't know it's missing yet (long-term vacation, traveling for work, etc.)

The killer could have been hiding the car away, too. Ted Bundy did that. It could have been long-time stolen, repainted, although that would be pretty stupid and a way to get caught, if stopped.

and embarrassingly enough, I forget my cell phone all the time because I take it out and then forget and then leave and then remember, but probably most people don't suffer from forgotthephoneagainitis.

re the plates, the cameras I must contend with have ability to take front and back, coming and going. smile I'm on candid camera. That LE doesn't have a plate indicates to me - JMO - that the car is seen on ring or possibly the neighbor's back door camera but no plate angle. again, everything here is JMO & imagination.

maybe he works on cars or works in a parts/junk yard type place or long term parking and has access to different vehicles, just an idea IMO

 

[TravellingCat]

Just some misc. data on stolen cars and car recovery:
2012 Progressive Insurance press release: "While on average a car was recovered roughly 46% of the time, the state-by-state recovery rate varied greatly. In Washington, the highest state for recovery, cars were recovered 71% of the time. In Michigan, the lowest state for recovery, cars were recovered just 19% of the time." Could not locate Idaho specific data.
Statistia shows a national average of 56.4% recovery rate for locally stolen cars in 2020, and Idaho had the 4th lowest stolen vehicle rate of all states in 2020.
Edit:
Another report touches on analysis of the correlation between finding the vehicle and making an arrest: "Overall, we didn't find a very strong correlation between the likelihood of a car recovery and an arrest. This suggests that finding the car does not have a strong impact on whether the police are able to apprehend the culprit or vice versa."

 

[TIGER0822]

I would not recognize the smell of blood. I’ve never smelled a massive amount of blood before however. Even if I had, there’s no way it would click in my mind that a mass murder had just occurred in my house.

The linked report was from Sunday Oct. 30. This was prior to the Idaho 4 murders.

Similar and terrifying, but I am guessing this assailant is either in jail or monitored.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

In the timeframe between 2:30-3:00 AM KG attempted to call J six times. Then M called him three times, and just minutes before 3:00 K tried one final time. This info was released by KG's family; they were able to determine activity on K's phone from checking online for their usage. But how did they know what happened with M's phone? Do we know?

I thought I recalled that KG's and MM's families were very close? The girls had been friends forever but I also thought the families themselves were close.

So I could easily see them navigating this tragedy together and sharing whatever information they have between them, including comparing each daughter's phone records.

Maybe that could also explain how SG might have seen the injuries on MM's body, if the two families went together to view them, and maybe to support each other they stuck together and both viewed each girl together.

About those last phone calls to J -- I do wonder if there were no voicemail messages left? If not, I don't feel 100% certain these were unrelated calls. Could the girls have heard noises downstairs or even seen someone walking outside, entering the house etc, but for whatever reason they didn't think they needed to call 911 but were worried enough to call J?

I half wondered if they were inadvertent "pocket-dial" calls during the attack itself, but for both phones to call J seems unlikely.

Or, maybe the girls saw the police lights at the Band Field incident and were calling J about that? (to see what he knew or to make sure he wasn't involved)?

MOO

 

[Breakout]

I am kind of curious about what peoples thoughts are regarding the murder, or murders in this case.

1. Do you believe they are local and are still in the area? (Considering college students as locals)
2. Local but no longer in the area?
3. Transient (Passing thru)?
4. From out of town and came to Moscow for this specific purpose?

I’ve been wondering the same myself. That location is very high density residential with many risks. That’s a tricky place to commit such a brazen crime. Is that in itself the escalation of a pattern of serial behavior? Had he done it before in an area less “packed”?
Overall I lean toward transient but there was something that brought him to that spot. Was it one of the victims particularly? The fact it was a small college town? Or was he visiting someone there and prowling?

 

[acutename]

People have hobbies in knife making. A knife making or smith completion is on tv network programs. The program style like chef completions

I was looking on Etsy the other day (not for knives) and I noticed that there are lots of edged weapons that people forge. Medieval times, etc.

 

[Awakening]

I’ve completely changed my opinion on this case.

Initially I thought this would be someone known to the victims who had frequented the house and had a grievance with them.

Now I think it’s more likely to be a stranger or relative stranger. Perhaps they’d followed the girls online.

I don’t believe the killer necessarily knew the precise layout of the house.

I don’t think it was a “normal” person who flew into a rage. I think it’s someone with a desire to kill. What fuels that desire, I don’t know yet.

I believe the police said he was sloppy to enrage the killer.

I think the killer had no fear of being caught or anything going wrong because they have an inflated sense of self. Probably someone who has gotten away with things in the past.

 

[layer]

Police Tell Moscow Residents 'Travel in Groups,' Be Vigilant​

Residents and visitors are urged to be extra vigilant while traveling through town in order to pick up on anything suspicious. Local law enforcement further urged people to try and always travel in groups, to decrease the likelihood that something might happen to them. Officials also called for people to communicate with friends and family before and after traveling, so that someone else is always aware that they are safe.
Source

 

[Simply Southern]

Not necessarily true. My state doesn't title vehicles over 15 years old. A hand written bill of sale on a scrap of paper is all that's needed to get plates.

Yes, many states allow Bill Of Sale purchases to obtain tags The information WILL be recorded into the national data base. BOS will have the previous owner, description of vehicle, mileage and VIN. This is a federal requirement for all state DMV.

We owned a 1939 Chevy for 40 plus years.It had a title, even had a factory very short "serial number".

National Motor Vehicle Title Information System (NMVTIS) | Overview

The National Motor Vehicle Title Information System (NMVTIS) was created under the Anti Car Theft Act of 1992.

bja.ojp.gov

 

[CeeMDubs]

It’s a possibility that the car was borrowed by a family member/friend/acquaintance without the owner’s knowledge, and the owner has NO idea their car was used or associated with a crime.

The owner may have come forward right away and been cleared as well (depending on how thoroughly they were investigated.) For instance, if it was an elderly person they may have been dismissed as an POI immediately. JMO

 

[hopewell]

Even without a VIN or a license plate? How does that look? How does LE figure it out?

Obviously, we're in the middle of your last option (crowd-sourcing). So far, nothing? Or did they get something and are mum? That seems irresponsible for LE, since Elantra owners everywhere are being stared at, mocked, or turned into tip lines. Clogging up tip lines is not good LE practice, so I don't think they've found it. Of course, they had an additional 1000 tips last time I checked (compared to two days ago).

What technology do you propose they use to find this car, exactly? 2011-2013 Elantras had no GPS, IIRC. If the plate was removed or obscured, what would they use?

We would be waiting for neighbors to remember or notice that someone has an Elantra (if it's not in a reservoir) or that someone had an Elantra and now doesn't. I, for one, have very little memory of all the various cars right around me. I'd notice if the three nearest neighbors no longer had one of their main cars, but two of them buy and sell cars as part of their overall way of making a living, so every few months, a new car is in someone's drive - I pay only attention to the ones they've had longterm.

Almost anyone can buy a camera-blocking screen for their license plate too - which is illegal many places, but there's little enforcement.

If the car did in fact drive past cameras elsewhere than on Taylor Rd/King/Queen Road, you'd think they'd tell us that as part of the request. If they have the license plate already, why are they asking us to find a car without that info? They're actually asking us to **remember** that car, but it has now shaded over into finding the car, as far as I can tell.

A 10+ year old white Hyundai Elantra isn't a common car anymore. There are not very many on the road today. And you don't need a VIN or license plate - anyone owning one could be found within hours/couple of days via DMV title searches in every state. Then narrow it down from there.

My opinion.

 

[samanthadaniels1995]

I’ve been wondering the same myself. That location is very high density residential with many risks. That’s a tricky place to commit such a brazen crime. Is that in itself the escalation of a pattern of serial behavior? Had he done it before in an area less “packed”?
Overall I lean toward transient but there was something that brought him to that spot. Was it one of the victims particularly? The fact it was a small college town? Or was he visiting someone there and prowling?

Good questions. Hopefully we will learn soon. <modsnip: quoted post removed>

 

[layer]

Hate to be pedantic, and maybe I'm wrong, but I don't believe LE have ever named the brand of the knife used.

Early on there were reports from a local store that LE were asking about one, but AFAIK that's all that has been mentioned as far as the brand is concerned.

This is precisely right.

 

[Father Dowling]

What strikes me as interesting about the car, is that they’ve specified a very exact make/model/generation which implies they have clear enough pictures to make this assertion but either A.) Couldn’t capture the LP due to the angle of the picture, B.) The LP doesn’t align with a 2011-13 Elantra, or C.) They know the LP but the owner has identified it as stolen during that time period.

For the Canadian Border Patrol to be on the lookout for it, this would imply that they have not recovered the vehicle, which would lean against option B, as that would be incredibly risky for the driver to still be driving a car on APB with an unmatched LP at this point. Really same for option C as well, seems incredibly risky. I lean toward option A, and if so the reason LE might put this out there is for a neighbor/friend/family member to maybe notify LE that the owner isn’t driving the car any more, which would be very suspicious. Unless the car was in fact stolen and dumped somewhere and hasn’t been found yet (emphasize on yet), or owner switched LP back to original and is still driving it around.

I believe this will put a lot of pressure on this case and will likely speed things up a bit, IMO.

 

[L.laricina]

Wow. Thank you so much for the information, and for the visual. This is very helpful and we need to keep in mind that one of the first things LE learned, definitively, is that such a knife was used.

I think you are right - and so do some knife experts, apparently (that they could tell the brand from the fact that the hilt left marks specific to a particular knife).

I could say quite a bit more as to how this type of design by a company makes them a more responsible company than, say, someone who makes their own knives at home and has no known, standard hilt.

Another thing about these kinives is that there are a lot of them in circulation. They were originally issued for WWII and the military purchased so many that they were issued through the Korean War. The design has also been available in civilian markets for at least that long.

KA-BAR Inc.

KA-BAR has a history as a leading military knife producer. The KABAR USMC knife was a general issue knife to marines in World War II. Today KA-BAR produces not only combat knives, but high quality hunting knives, and all-purpose utility knives.

www.kabar.com