ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 27

[samanthadaniels1995]

So some of the neighbours have stated that there were regular parties at this house - during the week as well as weekends.


So if this was planned???


Interestingly - this happened when there were no parties for this date.

Was that just random - that it occurred during one of the rare times there is no party at this house??

In addition, the occupants where not out altogether - some in pairs but at totally different venues. If this was planned - did they somehow know this was likely???

If you were planning to do this - you wouldn't want a party going on, and if you had been observing them - the person would also know parties are a regular occurrence - So I am wondering how did they know - no party.

All my own opinions.

Good points.

Where is the news item url stating "no parties at the house" ? Just lost track but do recall.

It is curious that the events occurred after everyone was home and long enough for them to be asleep. (no url but very familiar info)

Was it around 4 that a neighbor thought they heard a scream ?

 

[FoxCoMarine0311]

I think at this point, and with BAU getting on scene and involved immediately, that it essentially has to be a serial killer. And as quickly as BAU got there, probably even a known one to them.

My opinion.

I don't think you fully understand what the BAU actually does. Standard belief seems to be the television version of a "profiler," and their work focused on not only murders but serial murders. That couldn't be further from the truth. 99% of their job is lending a hand to time-sensitive investigations. Performing research, cross-referencing, data analysis, inductive/deductive reasoning, statistical probabilities, etcetera, in any number of violent crimes.

 

[TIGER0822]

Now I'm seeing Elantras everywhere. Is that one in the background?

View attachment 386474

From this video at :40

No car expert here. To me the car looks bigger than an Elantra, possibly a RAV4.

 

[otto]

The house was there before the path. IIRC, the house was built circa 1958 & the path was started maybe a decade or two later & was subsequently extended when the Shetland Ct area development (can’t remember the official name) was permitted in the 1990-2000s (give or take). Moo.

This path?

 

[acutename]

I totally agree with you. That is probably why LE might be totally baffled about this?. I do hope forensic science will out this monster before they kill again

the area around Moscow is rural- farms, ranches. The Q about the Elantra shows a "show room" tidy white car- but this is 10 yrs old- suppose it is dented and covered with dirt and in a shed ? would anyone even know it was around?

 

[debirlfan]

We're a month in. An innocent someone would've reported the car stolen early on and likely prior to the murders. Anyone who tried to do so afterwards would more than likely be the killer (or accomplice).

This car essentially has to be owned and used by someone, IMO, and even with no specific plate identifiers should've been found by now.

The main thrust of the police statement re the car is that they want info on driver and occupants the day of or shortly before the murders. Everything else seems to be more or less an afterthought. One would think they'd be interested in anyone that had seen such a car -since- the murders.

IMO, they have the car, quite possibly with blood in it. However, it was stolen some time shortly before the murders, so they don't know who was driving it that night.

 

[Emerald1328]

A 10+ year old white Hyundai Elantra isn't a common car anymore. There are not very many on the road today. And you don't need a VIN or license plate - anyone owning one could be found within hours/couple of days via DMV title searches in every state. Then narrow it down from there.

My opinion.

But then how do you go about narrowing it down from there? Do the police disregard all that are titled to females? Do they disregard all people older 60? They can’t automatically do that because who knows who had access to the car. Do you disregard anyone who is incarcerated? Again, can’t do that because who may have access to the car. Do you disregard anll over 1,000 miles away? Can’t do that because what if it’s some random psycho. I know they could and will be taking the profile from the BAU and starting with owners who fit those parameters first, but once you identify those people that fit within their parameters, how do you then narrow down those people?

I’m just throwing out random numbers here (which I think are quite low), but assuming there are 20,000 cars that match the description in the US and it take them 20 minutes to look into each one and clear them, that’s 6,666 hours. If you have 5 officers looking into them 12 hours a day, that will take 111 days.

IMO that is why they put it out in public. They’re still doing the work to find the owner but it could be quicker with the public’s help. Maybe they’ve known about this car all along and they’ve spent the past 3 weeks clearing, to the best of their ability, all owners who’s major characteristics (age, sex, location) fit the profile and it hasn’t gotten them anywhere.

 

[pmondrian2020]

Good points.

Where is the news item url stating "no parties at the house" ? Just lost track but do recall.

It is curious that the events occurred after everyone was home and long enough for them to be asleep. (no url but very familiar info)

Was it around 4 that a neighbor thought they heard a scream ?

The news story from the Moscow paper 2 days ago quoted neighbors as saying that that evening was very quiet and there were no parties in that area that night. The same article quotes the neighbor who now recalls that he may have heard a scream as he fell asleep sometime around 4 but he didn't think much of it at the time as it could have been someone having a good time and screaming .

 

[samanthadaniels1995]

I don't think you fully understand what the BAU actually does. Standard belief seems to be the television version of a "profiler," and their work focused on not only murders but serial murders. That couldn't be further from the truth. 99% of their job is lending a hand to time-sensitive investigations. Performing research, cross-referencing, data analysis, inductive/deductive reasoning, statistical probabilities, etcetera, in any number of violent crimes.

That's helpful. Also, that it takes time to clean the data and process it so that it is useful

 

[otto]

Good points.

Where is the news item url stating "no parties at the house" ? Just lost track but do recall.

It is curious that the events occurred after everyone was home and long enough for them to be asleep. (no url but very familiar info)

Was it around 4 that a neighbor thought they heard a scream ?

It wasn't the neighbor next door:

"Since the start of the school year, she said, they routinely had to wear earplugs to go to bed.

While coming and going from their own rentals, it wasn’t uncommon on most weekends, and some weekdays, for neighbors to encounter streams of college-aged people shuttling between homes in the two conjoined cul-de-sacs, they said. Aluminum cans of alcoholic beverages and red plastic cups frequently were left behind on the single, sloped path, one longtime resident said. Directly north from the neighborhood, across a grass field, the Sigma Chi fraternity house, part of the university’s new Greek row, is less than a 600-foot walk away.
...

Anna actually awoke at about 2 a.m. that Sunday, she said, when Spot, the couple’s 7-year-old Alaskan husky mix, began heaving. That’s when she noticed the rare calm of the neighborhood, Anna said. But she couldn’t get back to sleep, so played a computer game until what she estimated was about 5 a.m. She toggled between taking her headphones on and off “just to enjoy the quiet,” Anna said. She repeated what she said she told police later that day when they came to her door: She didn’t hear anything overnight that seemed concerning.

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article269736921.html

 

[samanthadaniels1995]

That's helpful. Also, that it takes time to clean the data and process it so that it is useful

Could we expect more details in the next week for the public to look out for ?

 

[thx4_medic_Babby]

This path?

Further South. You’re looking for Shetland Ct; there is a path which almost looks like it would construct appropriately with your marking from Taylor. The physical path ends on Ridge, so it’s more of a reference point/s.

 

[accordn2me]

What if there's a fire?

At the county office I work in, the Fire Marshall has said that door wedges are not allowed to be kept near doors but he does allow them to be kept in desks because they can be used when sheltering-in-place in the event of an active shooter situation.

Businesses have different fire codes than a residence will. If you’re in good enough shape to unlock your door in case of fire, I think you’ll remember to remove the door wedge too. If you’re unconscious, the fire department can easily break your windows to get inside and get you out. Personally, I just need something to wake me up a few seconds before an attacker gets near me. I still might not survive, but I will have a much better chance if I wake up as he’s breaching the interior vs. entering my bedroom.

 

[Eagle2123]

So about the Elantra. Is it possible the killer did multiple drive by’s throughout the day but never actually parked? Multiple door Cameras picked up this activity during the day, but don’t actually have recording of the night. Maybe he/she surveyed throughout the day to find the best spot to park for a quick in and out OR did he/she drive around all day to find a spot to survey the house after dark. And he/she sat and waited. I think either is possible. I also believe they knew the inside of the house.

There‘s 4 different arrivals that night that we know of. Did he/she see all of the arrivals?

This brings me back to the dog. I have mini labradoodles and they’re going to be with whoever gets home first and they’re gonna be close. Super emotional and super needy. And like to be in bed with whoever that time of night. I think the surviving roommates got home and took Murphy out and he slept with one of them. It’s nothing for a roommate to text KG and say “Hey, I’ve taken Murphy out and he’s sleeping with me until you get home“ or “until tomorrow”

So…does the killer see this? He/She sees the surviving roommates walking the dog and going to bed at a decent hour? Well earlier than the others. I find it hard for the killer to know about the whereabouts of all 5 that night. As far as we know.The 2 survivors made it home earlier but weren’t together. The two pairs apparently came home an hour or so later. Maybe Visibly he could tell the two pairs had been drinking. Maybe the killer didn’t know if the two surviving roommates were drinking but KNEW K, M, X, and E were. Which explains why he avoids the downstairs area. Just sleuthing here.

 

[acutename]

I agree. It's a virtual certainty that it's not a rental, but some folks seem to think it could be so I included the disclaimer. Further, if it's not a rental, and it likely isn't, then its owner certainly should be known by now. Even if the car itself is at the bottom of a quarry reservoir.

My opinion.

people are saying "it is not grandma's car," but if the killer used a relative's car between 2 and 4 a.m., and the car is not used regularly anyway, who would know?

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

This is precisely right.

LE havent said much at all about the crime

Police seek ‘Rambo’-style knife in probe of Idaho student murders: report

Police investigating the slaughter of four University of Idaho students have asked the manager of a local store owner whether he sold a “Rambo”-style knife known as KA-BAR to anyone.

nypost.com

Material facts here: King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

 

[otto]

The news story from the Moscow paper 2 days ago quoted neighbors as saying that that evening was very quiet and there were no parties in that area that night. The same article quotes the neighbor who now recalls that he may have heard a scream as he fell asleep sometime around 4 but he didn't think much of it at the time as it could have been someone having a good time and screaming .

"Harsh said he can’t be certain, but, as he dozed off early that morning, he thinks he heard a scream from the vicinity of his neighbors’ home, he told the Statesman. But it didn’t arouse much of his attention, he said, because he thought of it as more of a “party sound,” which wasn’t out of the ordinary for the time or setting. “I didn’t think anything of it,” Harsh said. “After what happened, I’ve definitely had second thoughts. Maybe it was not a party sound. I’m not sure what good it does for them now,” he said of not previously telling police after the detail occurred to him days later.

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article269736921.html#storylink=cpy

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

people are saying "it is not grandma's car," but if the killer used a relative's car between 2 and 4 a.m., and the car is not used regularly anyway, who would know?

Did the killer have any blood on them when entering the vehicle?

If someone borrowed your white Elantra, you might get suspicious. The whole country is on the look out for a white Elantra

 

[Simply Southern]

Just some misc. data on stolen cars and car recovery:
2012 Progressive Insurance press release: "While on average a car was recovered roughly 46% of the time, the state-by-state recovery rate varied greatly. In Washington, the highest state for recovery, cars were recovered 71% of the time. In Michigan, the lowest state for recovery, cars were recovered just 19% of the time." Could not locate Idaho specific data.
Statistia shows a national average of 56.4% recovery rate for locally stolen cars in 2020, and Idaho had the 4th lowest stolen vehicle rate of all states in 2020.
Edit:
Another report touches on analysis of the correlation between finding the vehicle and making an arrest: "Overall, we didn't find a very strong correlation between the likelihood of a car recovery and an arrest. This suggests that finding the car does not have a strong impact on whether the police are able to apprehend the culprit or vice versa."

So....maybe they have the car. Possibly found miles away. Maybe went back and scanned video saw the car.

Reminds me of the Jayme Closs case. They had a very bad, grainy image of a vechile, with several potential cars descriptions and color. It was crowdsourced months later. It WAS the car, and she was in it.

100% MO, the person/s in the vehicle is the killer/s.

The governor has awarded 1 million, to the investigation; the college enrollment/future is riding in finding the killer, the town relies on the college for survival. Its national news and doesn't seem to be "going away". I'm betting every politician in the state is applying pressure to resolve this case. I'm 100% convinced the FBI, US Marshall, Quantico, the state crime lab, ISP, have any and all resources available.

Moo

 

[samanthadaniels1995]

It wasn't the neighbor next door:

"Since the start of the school year, she said, they routinely had to wear earplugs to go to bed.

While coming and going from their own rentals, it wasn’t uncommon on most weekends, and some weekdays, for neighbors to encounter streams of college-aged people shuttling between homes in the two conjoined cul-de-sacs, they said. Aluminum cans of alcoholic beverages and red plastic cups frequently were left behind on the single, sloped path, one longtime resident said. Directly north from the neighborhood, across a grass field, the Sigma Chi fraternity house, part of the university’s new Greek row, is less than a 600-foot walk away.
...

Anna actually awoke at about 2 a.m. that Sunday, she said, when Spot, the couple’s 7-year-old Alaskan husky mix, began heaving. That’s when she noticed the rare calm of the neighborhood, Anna said. But she couldn’t get back to sleep, so played a computer game until what she estimated was about 5 a.m. She toggled between taking her headphones on and off “just to enjoy the quiet,” Anna said. She repeated what she said she told police later that day when they came to her door: She didn’t hear anything overnight that seemed concerning.

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article269736921.html

So, the timing of the assaults, on a quiet night is of interest ? A person with knowledge of this may take the opportunity. Or the people of the house had by chance drew the person to them ?

A question to ask is why all four ?

Purposeful, or by chance, reactionary until they met their intent.