ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 27

[ventuc]

There would have been a lot of blood though and that would mean that they literally found one victim motionless, didn't notice any wounds, injuries, or blood spatter (what's the chances!?), didn't freak out and yell and run to go find the other house mates (who were also already deceased) which would have been immediately obvious, didn't ring emergency services, didn't yell from the front door help help help someone help me for a neighbour, but *did* bring a bunch of their friends in the house? How long did it take these 'friends' to arrive, where did they come from!?

At first I was thinking maybe the victim had their cervical spine / neck artery cut and being already in bed was then covered over by a blanket. That means the person who couldn't rouse them would think they're fast asleep, maybe get closer and worry they're not breathing. Would you not sit on the bed and gently try to rouse them? And if that didn't work run to the very next room and try to consult with one of your housemates? Also the victims were sharing rooms so what gives? How can only one person not be roused?

Now I've gone right back to square one and I'm baffled and I don't buy it. JMO MOO

I’ve seen a report that makes a lot of sense to me, but is not from MSM, so I’ll just propose that this is how it could have happened, IMO. It follows Occam’s Razor as well—The roommates slept in, maybe spent time on their phones for a bit, maybe didn’t reach the other roommates by phone and thought it strange. In any case they came upstairs and headed towards the kitchen, and come upon E on the floor, and what they saw was so horrific that they scream and run out of the house, calling 911 as they go. They get outside where one roommate passes out, and the commotion draws the attention of multiple people/friends outside (fraternity house across the way). Think about that scene—it would have been chaotic with the girls screaming and in shock, and a 911 operator trying to get the story straight of what exactly has happened. The cops get there and see that the friends are there, the roommate who had passed out is tended to, and then the cops go into the house. I know this does not align with what the official word was that went out, but I think the story honestly just got jumbled. It’s possible the unconscious person could have been the roommate, or from the fact that they weren’t able to reach M and K (and possibly X) after multiple attempts to reach them. But I think the former—that the roommate passed out, and whoever got her phone next reported it an unconscious person, not knowing about the discovery of E inside. This is MOO, but would explain a lot.

 

[CeeMDubs]

I went back and edited exactly that. But I still think it must have been K's phone because I remember they said they were using "the family password" to access her records. Presumably M would have had a different password, but then they were like sisters.
Then again, maybe LE told them about it.

Maddie may have been on their family plan. In that case, it’s relatively easy to check records of calls online, or even request a copy of text messages from the phone company. If it’s their account they are entitled to the information and it’s easily accessible.

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

“The victims of a thrill killer are generally strangers, although the killer may stalk them for a period of time before the attack in order to fuel the excitement of the hunt.

Thrill killers derive intense satisfaction from the process of murder—that is, the acts leading up to it—rather than the killing itself.

They come to crave the euphoric adrenaline rush provided by stalking and capturing their victims.

The primary motive of thrill killers is to induce pain or terror in their victims prior to killing them which provides intense stimulation and excitement. Stalking and hunting their prey becomes an addiction for them much like a narcotic drug.

Normally, the attack of a thrill killer is swift and there is generally no sexual aspect to the murder.

Once the victim is dead, a thrill killer typically loses interest in him/her almost immediately.

Therefore, postmortem mutilation or necrophilia is rarely engaged in by this type of serial killer.”

Why Some People Kill For Thrills

There are psychopaths who stalk and kill humans as if they were big game hunters. These individuals become addicted to murder like a narcotic and cannot stop.

www.psychologytoday.com

Has the residence time and place been premeditated?

It wasn't personal? The targets were part of fantasy?

AIMOO

Material facts here: King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

 

[lucidium]

Its not that there may be no evidence. Police have not stated the vehicle, may or may not be stolen.

Who said the vehicle was stolen?

You "wonder if police have worked through the datasets of stolen white Elantras, from the inner perimeter out?"

Again, there is zero evidence that the car is stolen. Absent some reason to think otherwise, I see no need even consider the possibility. I suspect LE feels the same (to be fair, this is merely an educated guess - I have no inside knowledge of how LE conducts such investigations).

Very few cars are stolen. That includes cars that were used as transportation to commit a crime. Is it possible? Sure, it's possible.

 

[Trouble1321075]

Don't we know from the LE bodycam footage (from the 3am drunk student reporting in the field across the street) that KG/MM turned their lights off at 3am (as one sees their lights turning off in the video)? Since this is after the time of the phone calls, it suggests that there was no intruder/noises until after 3am, and that the phone calls were the usual crazy late night phone calling behavior that it is said that KG did engage in.

Even if we do know the lights were turned off at a specific time we do not know who turned them off. The girls may of fell asleep with the lights on and the killer turned them off as he entered the room.

We really know almost nothing about the details of this crime.

 

[L.laricina]

This is my very first post. I apologize if I mess up and write something that ends up being flagged. I assume it will be a learning process. I have been trying to figure out what could have happened once the kids were home. based on what I have read, the psycho came in from the sliding glass door. I assume the door was unlocked. The kids came home and one of them let the dog out to pee and forgot lock the sliding glass door. the psycho attached the couple at the 2 nd floor since that is the closest. it looks like the 2nd floor bedroom maybe be under one of the bedrooms on the 3rd floor. maybe One girl heard noise below went to her friends room. They called or texted due to the commotion not think it was them being attacked and the psycho made his way upstairs and attacked the girls. The dad said his daughter had different wounds maybe she was up and she resisted a bit. Since the girls did no5 go how the psycho expected he wanted to rush out so he leaves from the front door and leaves the door open.
not sure if we are allowed to speculate but here is my thoughts

I think your scenario sounds entirely plausible. We really just do not know, and if no one is brought to trial for this crime we may never know. Welcome!

 

[Allabouttrial]

This is my very first post. I apologize if I mess up and write something that ends up being flagged. I assume it will be a learning process. I have been trying to figure out what could have happened once the kids were home. based on what I have read, the psycho came in from the sliding glass door. I assume the door was unlocked. The kids came home and one of them let the dog out to pee and forgot lock the sliding glass door. the psycho attached the couple at the 2 nd floor since that is the closest. it looks like the 2nd floor bedroom maybe be under one of the bedrooms on the 3rd floor. maybe One girl heard noise below went to her friends room. They called or texted due to the commotion not think it was them being attacked and the psycho made his way upstairs and attacked the girls. The dad said his daughter had different wounds maybe she was up and she resisted a bit. Since the girls did no5 go how the psycho expected he wanted to rush out so he leaves from the front door and leaves the door open.
not sure if we are allowed to speculate but here is my thoughts

Welcome!

Sliding door - It was possibly the slider door left open or a window. I believe Kaylee's dad said that's what LE told him.

Dog - Kaylee's sister said something about the dog being let out, but I'm not convinced she wasn't just guessing.

Floors - Kaylee's dad seems to think the killer started with Xana and Ethan, but LE won't say either way.

Sleeping - It appears, via Kaylee's dad the girls were sleeping in the same bed.

I agree with Kaylee perhaps resisting, hence why she may have come off worse than Maddie.,

Good thought about one of the girls hearing something and perhaps that's why they were sharing a bed. Although, I believe the coroner said they were most probably sleeping at the time of the attack.

It's fine to speculate, as long as we only speculate within the info. we've seen from approved MSM.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

Oh, I know what you mean. The other mention of bruising.

That's coming from her father. I believe that the coroner said there was "bruising" on the victims (and did not specify how many, I am assuming all of them). SG decided that meant "she fought defensively." Yet, the Coroner has only specifically mentioned 1 person with defensive wounds (X).

The bruises mentioned by the coroner are not equivalent to "defense wounds" (which were mentioned separately). I am guessing the bruises that were most important were those caused by the hilt of the knife, the killing instrument. So LE got confirmation from the Coroner (IMO) that it was a hilted knife, due to bruises. K's father has misunderstood, IMO.

As a reminder, this is what the coroner disclosed after the autopsies with respect to defensive wounds (BBM):

“Four University of Idaho students who were found dead in a rental house Sunday were stabbed to death in their beds and likely were asleep, the Latah County Coroner said Friday.

The four victims were likely asleep, some had defensive wounds, and each was stabbed multiple times with a "pretty large knife," the coroner said, adding that there was no sign of sexual assault.

"It has to be somebody pretty angry in order to stab four people to death," Latah County Coroner Cathy Mabbut told a cable news channel. The victims were stabbed in the chest and upper body, the coroner said.”

University of Idaho murders: 4 students were stabbed to death in their beds and likely asleep, Latah County Coroner says | abc7news.com

 

[hopewell]

And they want its form activities (they say), not its current whereabouts.

This is key, IMO.

However, they do evidently have BOLOs out at the border, so it isn't in their possession.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

I can only guess, but I think spy ones might hover over WA or California. Probably even Oregon Coast (I have no clue about defense, but Pacific Coast is a logical assumption).

Would it make sense to look at the images of
major roads, such as I-90, I-5 or even Route 2 in the days preceding/after murders?

Idaho has no strategic pools of water nearby and boarders a friendly neighbor, but I'd personally consider all major highways important, so maybe I-95? If they are driving East to Montana, probably there were no photos to expect. JMHO.

The PD of Idaho would know more about the time frame, but I think even if locals, they'd lie low or move out of the area for a while.

Navy intelligence, submarine bases, and shipyard on the Kitsap peninsula probably gets its share of monitoring. Seattle and surrounding areas / bridges have lots of camera surveillance, too.

https://wsdot.com/travel/real-time/cameras

ditto Oregon

Cameras | TripCheck - Oregon Traveler Information

www.tripcheck.com

here's idaho
Idaho 511 Travel Information. and

hopefully they saw something on one of these 12

Idaho 511 Travel Information

Reports regarding traffic incidents, winter road conditions, traffic cameras, active and planned construction, etc.

511.idaho.gov

 

[SUSAN ANN]

I’ve seen a report that makes a lot of sense to me, but is not from MSM, so I’ll just propose that this is how it could have happened, IMO. It follows Occam’s Razor as well—The roommates slept in, maybe spent time on their phones for a bit, maybe didn’t reach the other roommates by phone and thought it strange. In any case they came upstairs and headed towards the kitchen, and come upon E on the floor, and what they saw was so horrific that they scream and run out of the house, calling 911 as they go. They get outside where one roommate passes out, and the commotion draws the attention of multiple people/friends outside (fraternity house across the way). Think about that scene—it would have been chaotic with the girls screaming and in shock, and a 911 operator trying to get the story straight of what exactly has happened. The cops get there and see that the friends are there, the roommate who had passed out is tended to, and then the cops go into the house. I know this does not align with what the official word was that went out, but I think the story honestly just got jumbled. It’s possible the unconscious person could have been the roommate, or from the fact that they weren’t able to reach M and K (and possibly X) after multiple attempts to reach them. But I think the former—that the roommate passed out, and whoever got her phone next reported it an unconscious person, not knowing about the discovery of E inside. This is MOO, but would explain a lot.

I read the same story. My opinion, I think I would faint if I saw a terrible scene. Or go into Hysterics. I’ve only been in shock once in my life. Yes, I can understand that. A brain can only handle so much.

 

[10ofRods]

There continues to be zero evidence that the car is stolen.

Exactly. It is just one of several scenarios that could explain this perplexing request.

A car model, color and year. No license or serial number. No known owner. No plates ever seen? Or no plates at all? Or, perhaps, just not seen so could be either?

And they want its form activities (they say), not its current whereabouts.

LOL - I agree with you. I’ll also add LE checked with other local stores with respect to sales of large fixed blade knives — they just haven’t spoken to press.

Not to bash MBS at all - my better half absentmindedly left his money clip near a register some time back. MBS reviewed their security footage, found footage of the person who made off with it, IDed the culprit, & got the money clip back (absent the cash). Had the knife been purchased there during a decent time frame, I have no doubt security footage would have been invaluable!

Sorry for not being clearer: I was specifically interested in your focus on bruising with respect to K only?

Oh, I know what you mean. The other mention of bruising.

That's coming from her father. I believe that the coroner said there was "bruising" on the victims (and did not specify how many, I am assuming all of them). SG decided that meant "she fought defensively." Yet, the Coroner has only specifically mentioned 1 person with defensive wounds (X).

The bruises mentioned by the coroner are not equivalent to "defensive wounds" (which were mentioned separately). I am guessing the bruises that were most important were those caused by the hilt of the knife, the killing instrument. So LE got confirmation from the Coroner (IMO) that it was a hilted knife, due to bruises. K's father has misunderstood, IMO.

I believe they all had bruises, most likely, due to the weapon used and their stationary position on or in a bed.

 

[EncyclopediaBrownJr]

in relation to your last point, I noticed this opinion from another LE commentator earlier

at around 3m 45secs

This just doesn't sit well with me. This whole car thing sounds like something that could have been made public a lot sooner. What did they have somebody all of a sudden, 4 weeks later remembered seeing a white hyundai elantra? That's info you get in the first couple days.

 

[L.laricina]

Yes, light aircraft collate GIS image datasets that can be used to check attributes of the area in recent time. The images are also much much higher in definition. Sometimes it captures the inadvertent criminal.

Im think that an external security camera has caught the Elantra in an image somewhere.

If the killer has avoided cameras, and scoped out the scene, that's not really a crime of passion.
It's not an impulsive action but would appear to hold a level of pre planning
AIMOO

GIS is a wonderful tool. Combine that with UAVs and you can get almost real time, local data across a pretty wide area. The spatial and temporal resolutions are astounding in their application.

 

[Emerald1328]

Where can I read about the wounds and bruises on their body’s? I haven’t seen any of this yet.

I posted above what Xana’s father said about her. In the press releases, the coroner said that “some” had defensive wounds, and then there’s this:

Mabbutt said that the victims showed "little bit of bruising" but "nothing significant." She added that some bruising "wouldn't be uncommon during a stabbing."

Mabbutt couldn't say how many times each victim was stabbed but said it was safe to say each of them had multiple wounds. She declined to say where on the body they were stabbed and later clarified that the victims were stabbed in different places and a different amount of times.

Coroner Has New Details About Fatal Slaying of 4 U of Idaho Students After Autopsies

The four students were found stabbed to death inside a home in Moscow, Idaho, on Nov. 13.

www.today.com

 

[EncyclopediaBrownJr]

Maybe the killer did not drive the car deep into the neighborhood. We don't know where the White Elantra was seen. The car might have been observed/seen some distance away from the house. Maybe the killer hiked into the neighborhood.

JMO

It's cold, icy, the killer is going to be drenched in blood and now he's got to hike all the way back to his car? Where does he park this car? Where does he go when he gets into this car? This guy isn't driving out of there undetected imo.

 

[LynnWhite]

MOO.....Ain't no way in the world the person/s in the vehicle is coming forward. The killer is to smart for that.

Trimmed your post to just this part - this may have been said 100 times and I missed it, but it definitely seems to me that the more time goes by without someone coming forward to say “that was me in the Hyundai,” the more involved whoever was in that car appears. Just my observation of course, but to my thinking, there’s no way anyone that close to what went down isn’t following this closely in the media - surely whoever was in that car knows police wants to talk to them and has made a decision to be silent. OR, I suppose, the police description of the car is simply incorrect and the actual occupants of the vehicle they’re looking for don’t realize it’s theirs. Seems unlikely to me.

 

[drmrgrl]

There's one obvious unusual thing here -- the knife; and that makes it the signifier.

Solve the knife and solve the crime.

Yes. Very observant

 

[Ozoner]

So, there are some 6,000 (maybe more) white 2011-2013 Elantras nationwide, whose title numbers will be issued to LE in Moscow. They will then have to sort through it all. Many of them will have an owner's address and name that no longer correspond to the car (the person has moved, car was "sold," registration never redone - or no registration, esp. in college towns).

Students "abandon" cars to others, until they are - ultimately - abandoned from the point of view of either the city, county or college. It's even possible that the car truly didn't have registration or plates that are current (out of state California plates, for example - Californians don't surrender plates when they transfer ownership).

Last known owner is the person who LE wants to come forward, for sure. They will have many guesses about who is driving around in their car and give an amazing lead.

Quicker than genetic genealogy, IMO.

But now we need the Elantra owner to be found or come forward, so LE can find the person they are interested in.

Where is the information coming from that there are only 6,000 white Elantras nationwide? The model year is 2011—2013 according to LE.

According to this car sales web site, there were 186,361 MY2011, 202,034 MY2012, and 247,912 MY2013 Elantras sold in the US. That 636,307 over the three model years.

According to CNBC, 39% of the cars in the world are painted white. That would be 248,160 white Elantras from those model years.

It's difficult to say how many are still on the road, but even if we use 50% as an estimate, that would be 124,080 white MY2011—MY2013 Elantras still on the road in the US (and the percentage of them still on the road is almost certainly higher than 50%; the average age of cars on the road today is 12.2 years according to Kelly Blue Book).

 

[drmrgrl]

Will there be an arrest before Christmas, yes or no.

Yes IMO I have faith in LE