ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 27

[drmrgrl]

There's one obvious unusual thing here -- the knife; and that makes it the signifier.

Solve the knife and solve the crime.

How about “ signature” as well

 

[Eagle2123]

I believe that they were asked if the victims were conscience. They called friends because their roommates didn't respond to their call. Something was out of place, they saw stains in the hallway, they may have been in shock, denial. Perhaps more was said but unconscious was recorded. I suggest that it's left as that because we really don't know now but perhaps the roommates may relate the report later.

The interesting note is.

Police believed it was a targeted event.

They are looking for footage of a larger block area after 3.

The events occurred after everyone was home and settled

It was an unusual quiet night.

Agreed. I feel this was a targeted attack. I’ll be honest. There were numerous times in college where I didn’t show up back at my home anywhere from 12-8AM. That’s just college. The killer KNEW everyone was home IMO. Which makes me think he knew who lived there, he knew what his targets were doing, he knew his threats, and he knew where his targets were. He ALSO knew. He wouldn’t be interrupted. This is someone close to the victims.

 

[XtremeScorpio]

I'm not sure how I missed this but that is a great point!
If there were only unanswered phone calls, no texts or voice mails, there would have been no way to know that all the calls weren't by K since it was her phone. So there must be messages.
Great thinking!

In the first interview with K's mom & sister, the sister said that K's was on a shared plan with their mom - which would give them online access to phone the call log. So they pulled up K's phone bill to see who she had contact with last & found the calls to J.

Edited to add link to interview. Please note, I was unable to locate the entire interview (it was with Inside edition on 11/19) but here is part of it and where mom does say they found the calls by looking thru "her, Kaylee's phone calls"....

Idaho murder victim's sister says she called man 7 times night of slayings: Report

The sister of Kaylee Goncalves, one of the four University of Idaho homicide victims, says she called a man named Jack six times before she was killed.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Simply Southern]

Absolutely, but 6000 white Elantras in the US can be narrowed down pretty quickly with search parameters that gradually expand outward from Moscow. I bet a town with 24,000 people in it has, say, 10-15 (if that), and so on. Add another 5 or so for students.

Idaho does have 511 traffic cams. I know Virginia has on all major roads. Not sure if Idaho stores the data.

Idaho 511 Travel Information

Reports regarding traffic incidents, winter road conditions, traffic cameras, active and planned construction, etc.

511.idaho.gov

 

[Emerald1328]

I went back and edited exactly that. But I still think it must have been K's phone because I remember they said they were using "the family password" to access her records. Presumably M would have had a different password, but then they were like sisters.
Then again, maybe LE told them about it.

Kaylee’s ex likely showed them (police, her family) his phone. It would show the phone number that called.

 

[10ofRods]

The levels of audacity, calculation, depravity, psychopathology, and utter strength it takes to systematically reap four people in their beds on a Saturday night at 3AM with nary a peep and without enough evidence to be caught virtually immediately afterwards, are a bit greater in both scope and magnitude than some impulsive revenge kill, aggrieved incel, 90lb Instagram 'hunter' posing with Daddy's kills, or ex-lover's quibble. Every reputable profiler I have seen regarding this case agrees the MO fits a likely serial killer.

My opinion.

Elliot Rodger (incel killer) killed 6 people in one spree.

BTK killed two adults and two kids on his first go. Danny Rolling killed 5 students in his first go (and more over the next few days). I'm trying to stick to solo killers. We have no evidence or LE announcement that this is clearly a solo killer. Do we?

We all likely remember the various mass killings at clubs, bars, workplaces, etc.

I don't know where you're finding your "reputable profilers," and I certainly do not rule out (and seriously fear) a serial killer. But there are other possibilities and all must be explored. A reputable profiler, IMO, doesn't narrow down too quickly.

What do you mean by scope? This was not over a larger area, as some killings are (sometimes up to three separate locales in revenge kills or incel killings, etc). So I don't know what you mean by scope. These are all young people who are college students (a narrow group, not a wide group).

And by magnitude, you are probably referencing the number killed at one time. Yes, it's a big number, but 3 other students were killed the same night in Virginia. Balaclan, Borderline, Columbine, Ulvade, are all greater in magnitude, IMO. Sandy Hook. A person killing lots of other people.

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

MOO.....Ain't no way in the world the person/s in the vehicle is coming forward. The killer is to smart for that.

This fortifies the LE resolute to locate the vehicle

imo

 

[L.laricina]

The way I remember it reported was that there were 7 calls by K, 2 calls by M, then 2 more calls by K, all using K's phone.

I'll have to go way back to double check, though.

ETA:
OK, this case has scrambled my brain. This is all I can find:

“At 2:26 a.m., Kaylee starts to call Jack,” Alivia Goncalvez told Inside Edition. “Kaylee calls Jack six times between 2:26 a.m. and 2:44 a.m. From 2:44 to 2:52 Maddie calls Jack three times, then Kaylee makes a final call to him at 2:52 a.m.”

So I guess it could be both phones. I think it was always assumed that all the calls were from K's phone because her sister had accessed her phone records using the family password.

It's been a couple weeks since I've been on WS, but I remember a large group of posters were likening the situation to the ex's best friend calling the ex's ex from the best friend's phone because the second ex wouldn't respond to the first ex's calls.

And that's the most awkward sentence that I have ever written, but it was fun to write.

 

[Trouble1321075]

I see a few relatively straightforward ways to get out of town without passing by one of these main traffic cameras. Surely, they're combing through some data. Edit: I don't think the Idaho DOT cams keep more than a still shot every 15 seconds. Hopefully they pulled those before being erased since they don't keep them long term.
View attachment 386495

Great map

 

[drmrgrl]

It's cold, icy, the killer is going to be drenched in blood and now he's got to hike all the way back to his car? Where does he park this car? Where does he go when he gets into this car? This guy isn't driving out of there undetected imo.

We don’t know exactly where the car was parked or seen. Also, we are assuming the killer was “drenched” in blood. He may have had some blood on him, but maybe not as much as we think he/she did

 

[LynnWhite]

I may have missed this obvious thing, apologies if I did. Did they say the Hyundai lead came from the body cam footage? If so, did they ever post the actual photo they’re basing the and model of the car on?

 

[Charlot123]

For anyone interested in speculating about the murderer’s profession (or lack thereof), please read and contribute. If you are not, feel free to scroll on by.

I see this murderer as an employed man in a stereotypically male profession…one which has some risk, where hand tools are used, and where he does not have to interact often with others. I also see him as able to move around geographically a fair amount. He is accustomed to uncomfortable circumstances. I am thinking about some sort of skilled labor, like welding, tree trimming, roofing. I can’t see him holding a job for very much longer than some months because he has obvious disdain for other people. He may even prefer solitary work or third shift to minimize his interactions. He’s reliable, experienced, and good at what he does. He’s probably been at it for some time, maybe placing him in his thirties.

Do any of you have some thoughts?

MOO.

Edited for poor grammar

I don't know why, but this case makes me think of Canadian prospectors - they probably exist on the US side of the border in the same amount, but I know of Canadians. To apply for mining on a parcel of land costs little, and I suspect everyone hopes to find oil or gold, but any colored stones in bulk bring money. So, a geologist, a gemologist, or even a self-taught gem cutter. Not rich by any means, barely making ends meet, because most never find anything.
Spending a lot of time outside, alone on his land; if he drives somewhere, these would be clubs to meet with the same adventurers, or maybe some exhibitions. Spending a lot of time outside, even in winter, is no problem, this person is unafraid of heights (a genetic trait, btw), is lean, wiry and strong. Tools used might be very different. About third shift or rather, working alone - agree, and I wonder if the person has true sensory processing disorder. Probably likes to drink. An external survivor.

This being said, I can imagine a computer engineer who likes to work at home and is an amateur chef. Some cooking equipments are really expensive (and no, they are not necessarily knives, but sharp) and hard to find. Have to be ordered specially, sometimes from abroad. He also likes to hike.

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

Exactly. It is just one of several scenarios that could explain this perplexing request.

A car model, color and year. No license or serial number. No known owner. No plates ever seen? Or no plates at all? Or, perhaps, just not seen so could be either?

And they want its form activities (they say), not its current whereabouts.

Combine that vehicle database query with other metadata sets in the query

If you turn up 3 lemons, you're going to be hunted by a rabid dog

Imoo

 

[L.laricina]

Agree. If that's the case, then highly likely a knife had also been used in any previous encounters. So that begs the question>>>Are there any unsolved killings with similar circumstances??<<< I recall killings in Oregon and Washington mentioned here that are in this category. Have those been *ruled out* by LE?

I'm just catching up and just skimmed all of the MPD reports, and I believe they said they have no evidence that the crimes are connected. As to whether anything has been ruled out by investigators, I don't know.

 

[EncyclopediaBrownJr]

We don’t know exactly where the car was parked or seen. Also, we are assuming the killer was “drenched” in blood. He may had some blood on him, but maybe not as much as we think he/she did

How does this killer know he's not going to be drenched in blood when he leaves to go back to his car? What if he get's injured? Then you have cops patrolling around on a saturday night looking for riff raff (We've already seen the body cam footage near the frat house).

 

[NuttMegg]

I’ve seen a report that makes a lot of sense to me, but is not from MSM, so I’ll just propose that this is how it could have happened, IMO. It follows Occam’s Razor as well—The roommates slept in, maybe spent time on their phones for a bit, maybe didn’t reach the other roommates by phone and thought it strange. In any case they came upstairs and headed towards the kitchen, and come upon E on the floor, and what they saw was so horrific that they scream and run out of the house, calling 911 as they go. They get outside where one roommate passes out, and the commotion draws the attention of multiple people/friends outside (fraternity house across the way). Think about that scene—it would have been chaotic with the girls screaming and in shock, and a 911 operator trying to get the story straight of what exactly has happened. The cops get there and see that the friends are there, the roommate who had passed out is tended to, and then the cops go into the house. I know this does not align with what the official word was that went out, but I think the story honestly just got jumbled. It’s possible the unconscious person could have been the roommate, or from the fact that they weren’t able to reach M and K (and possibly X) after multiple attempts to reach them. But I think the former—that the roommate passed out, and whoever got her phone next reported it an unconscious person, not knowing about the discovery of E inside. This is MOO, but would explain a lot.

i think that's a little convoluted for Occam, jmo. But wasn't LE pretty clear about the 911 call instigated by someone not a roommate, but with the roommate's phone?

We must have talked that one over for a week here, why the roommate(s) didn't make the call.

 

[Awakening]

I wonder if there’s someone out there who was graduating and appears successful but is privately disappointed with their results?

“Gary Hirte, 18, did not look like a potential thrill killer. An Eagle Scout and honors student and member of the track, wrestling and football teams at Weyauwega-Fremont High School near Oshkosh, Wis., he seemed to have a promising future ahead of him. But today he sits in Winnebego County jail, charged with first-degree intentional homicide.

Experts say thrill killers are motivated by need to feel empowered, but they are not always loners or obviously disenfranchised members of a community. Even someone who appears to be successful can feel so powerless that they feel compelled to lash out and make a statement through murder.”

What Drives 'Thrill' Killings?

abcnews.go.com

 

[10ofRods]

Maybe the killer did not drive the car deep into the neighborhood. We don't know where the White Elantra was seen. The car might have been observed/seen some distance away from the house. Maybe the killer hiked into the neighborhood.

JMO

You are right.

The killer was not driving the Elantra or in it, as far as we know. According to LE, the driver and possible passenger might have info about the killer (gave someone a ride? who knows?)

Someone was seen being dropped off?

 

[drmrgrl]

Wait... don't travel in pairs!! That's when he attacks. (Sorry)

Lol

 

[Auntie Cipation]

The way I remember it reported was that there were 7 calls by K, 2 calls by M, then 2 more calls by K, all using K's phone.

I'll have to go way back to double check, though.

ETA:
OK, this case has scrambled my brain. This is all I can find:

“At 2:26 a.m., Kaylee starts to call Jack,” Alivia Goncalvez told Inside Edition. “Kaylee calls Jack six times between 2:26 a.m. and 2:44 a.m. From 2:44 to 2:52 Maddie calls Jack three times, then Kaylee makes a final call to him at 2:52 a.m.”

So I guess it could be both phones. I think it was always assumed that all the calls were from K's phone because her sister had accessed her phone records using the family password.

IMO it has to be both phones, assuming we are talking about phone calls and not texts. Because a dialed phone call that is not answered and no voicemail left, how would it even be known that KG made some of the calls and MM made others?

Besides, if as reported the purpose of MM making calls was because J wasn't answering KG's calls, then even MM dialing him using KG's phone will look exactly the same on his end.

But when KG's parents described the messages as K saying "please get back to me" and "we share a dog together", those are presumably text messages -- when were those exchanges? Earlier that day? Or 2:30am just before she switched to phone calls? TIA