ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 27

[OldCop]

If two knives of the very same kind were used, would they be able to tell, like they would with guns? Does anyone know?

If the two knives were identical, they may not be able to tell. However, LE should be able to tell if it was two different persons who used the knives by the wounds, handedness, angles, depth etc.
ETA Clarification.

 

[Victoria Chambers]

If two knives of the very same kind were used, would they be able to tell, like they would with guns? Does anyone know?

I think if ONE individual, for whatever reason, was equipped and used 2 identical knives, nobody may realise.
However, if TWO persons came equipped with identical knives, I do believe the medical examiner and crime scene investigators would recognise the killings as being the work of 2 seperate individuals.
Similar examples may be the strokes of a brush when identifying the works of an artist. Or handwriting experts and calligraphy when trying to determine whether a signature is forged and whatnot.
It will come down to unique characteristics of every individual. The angle of the wounds. Severity of the wounds, Locations of the wounds. And the wounds themselves, how consistent they are re plunging, slicing, twisting etc. The height of the killer may also become relevant in these findings.
I believe the experts have gotten it correct in determining the 4 murders are the work of 1 hand imo.

 

[hopewell]

This. I posted earlier but, say there are 20,000 cars matching that description in the US. If 5 officers spend 20 minutes investigating each car for 12 hours a day, that would take 111 days. And I think that’s on the optimistic side as far as numbers go. (I had to do the math several different ways to make sure I got the correct number since I’m so bad at math haha)

111 days is only 3 1/2 months, which is nothing for a crime of this type. Chances are there would be more agents/resources devoted to it, since it is claimed to be involved in some way (according to the Moscow PD PIO on Inside Edition interview?).

My opinion.

 

[EJB123456]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed for rumor>
I will keep looking for a more definitive quote I’ve seeing where the unconscious person was the victim, but on Nov 20th here’s what the chief said:

“Detectives are releasing that on the morning of November 13th, the surviving roommates summoned friends to the residence because they believed one of the second-floor victims had passed out and was not waking up. At 11:58 a.m., a 911 call requested aid for an unconscious person.”

- press conf

While we can poke at this statement and say it still leaves room for interpretation, it sure seems like it was probably a victim.

ETA - changed a word and added a period because I’m pedantic

 

[NuttMegg]

If the two knives were identical, they may not be able to tell. However, LE should be able to tell if it was two different persons who used the knives by the wounds, handedness, angles, depth etc.
ETA Clarification.

@OldCop, how much time would you estimate it would take for this murderer to kill all four. Given what we know so far. Into the house thru sliding doors, and back out same way. I know this hasn't been confirmed, but let's assume it here.

 

[mendicant]

Four people killed with a knife. Is there such a thing as 'just' stab four people with a knife?

An assassination could have been suppressed firearm. Less risk, less chance dna, less chance blood?
Imo

Yes, nothing like gunshots at 4 a.m.

 

[Janitor101]

There are Ka Bars and then there are, well, still more Ka Bars.

Though Ka Bar may of never made a stated Rambo Knife, their design of the knife presented as the WWII USMC knife has evidently varied to include releases with serrated edges.

This could be because the originals also included serrated edges, or simply because the knife has had a 80 year plus production

I watched a terrific podcast featuring Jonathan Gilliam (former FBI and Navy seal) discussing what it takes to stab an individual as well as metal particles that sometimes fall off the knife during repeated stabs with the knife. He said that "metallurgy" techniques are used by the FBI, but he didn't say whether this could assist in identifying a particular knife or maybe I missed that part of the discussion. Maybe they did some testing and identified the K- bar brand as the possible murder weapon?

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

Yes, nothing like gunshots at 4 a.m.

Suppressed firearm in an insulated home make less noise than victims being stabbed with a knife

 

[mendicant]

Suppressed firearm in an insulated home make less noise than victims being stabbed with a knife

Link?

Anyway -- didn't disturb renters on first floor, evidently.

 

[Moonglow630]

I will keep looking for a more definitive quote I’ve seeing where the unconscious person was the victim, but on Nov 20th here’s what the chief said:

“Detectives are releasing that on the morning of November 13th, the surviving roommates summoned friends to the residence because they believed one of the second-floor victims had passed out and was not waking up. At 11:58 a.m., a 911 call requested aid for an unconscious person.”

- press conf

While we can poke at this statement and say it still leaves room for interpretation, it sure seems like it was probably a victim.

ETA - changed a word and added a period because I’m pedantic

And police have never reported incorrect information?? JMHO
College students are pretty familiar with seeing other students passed out, especially if they’re Greeks, I’m assuming. So what would cause this to rise to a 911 call?
Just a thought

 

[Victoria Chambers]

@OldCop, how much time would you estimate it would take for this murderer to kill all four. Given what we know so far. Into the house thru sliding doors, and back out same way. I know this hasn't been confirmed, but let's assume it here.

I believe, no more than 4 munutes in each bedroom, for these murders to occur.
The question is.. did the killer flee immediately. He was brazen enough to enter the residence and if he believed even the survivors were asleep, he may have remained in the property. There are many dark hours he had to himself that night.

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

He said that "metallurgy" techniques are used by the FBI, but he didn't say whether this could assist in identifying a particular knife or maybe I missed that part of the discussion. Maybe they did some testing and identified the K- bar brand as the possible murder weapon?

Interesting, forensics might be able to age and locate the knifes origin of manufacture for what purpose.
US issue might be different to other products over different conflicts. Potentially, there are cheap copies. This might identify the supply chain?
The coroner might use a magnet (MRI machine?) to pull swarf from the victims? imo

 

[hopewell]

And you know this how.

Seems obvious to me that 4 kill shots with a silenced firearm while the victims are sleeping in their respective beds would make less noise than stabbing each of them multiple times. But it would certainly make a little sound (and flash).

My opinion.

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

I believe, no more than 4 munutes in each bedroom, for these murders to occur.
The question is.. did the killer flee immediately. He was brazen enough to enter the residence and if he believed even the survivors were asleep, he may have remained in the property. There are many dark hours he had to himself that night.

8 minutes would seem like forever. The risk of first responders not far. High risk

 

[Shamrock1]

Seems obvious to me that 4 kill shots with a silenced firearm while the victims are sleeping in their respective beds would make less noise than stabbing each of them multiple times. But it would certainly make a little sound and flash.

My opinion.

Gun “silencers” are a Hollywood myth:

“Contrary to popular belief, suppressors do not completely silence firearms; rather they help to mitigate the potentially dangerous noise associated with firearms. Even the most effective suppressors on the smallest calibers reduce the peak sound level of a gunshot to around 110-120 decibel (dB). Realistically, suppressors are a useful tool for recreational shooting and hunting, allowing for better hearing protection, reduced recoil, and increased accuracy.”

“Even the most effective suppressors on the smallest calibers, like .22 LR, reduce the peak sound level of a gunshot to around 108-120 decibels (dB). To put that in perspective, according to the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH), that is as loud as a jackhammer (110 dB) or an ambulance siren (120 dB).”

Firearm Suppressors | Congressional Sportsmen's Foundation

The Congressional Sportsmen's Foundation works with Congress, governors, and state legislatures to protect and advance hunting, angling, recreational shooting, and trapping in the halls of government.

congressionalsportsmen.org

 

[Helechawagirl]

And police have never reported incorrect information?? JMHO
College students are pretty familiar with seeing other students passed out, especially if they’re Greeks, I’m assuming. So what would cause this to rise to a 911 call?
Just a thought

It is listed on the call log as homicide—at the top—notes say unconscious. Probably didn’t wanna spread homicide all over the airwaves until deceased were identified, family had been notified, etc. JMO

 

[mendicant]

Seems obvious to me that 4 kill shots with a silenced firearm while the victims are sleeping in their respective beds would make less noise than stabbing each of them multiple times. But it would certainly make a little sound (and flash).

My opinion.

Unnecessarily adds a variable -- now killer must purchase or construct and bring and affix own silencer to weapon, and also carry away same. Occam of Razor fame frowns.

 

[CSIDreamer]

And police have never reported incorrect information?? JMHO
College students are pretty familiar with seeing other students passed out, especially if they’re Greeks, I’m assuming. So what would cause this to rise to a 911 call?
Just a thought

LE has been very consistent with this detail from the beginning. We need to work with the facts as we know them and what few we have.

 

[Unretired]

Have they checked out everyone that was at that Sports Bar. Hopefully there is video.

 

[Emerald1328]

111 days is only 3 1/2 months, which is nothing for a crime of this type. Chances are there would be more agents/resources devoted to it, since it is claimed to be involved in some way (according to the Moscow PD PIO on Inside Edition interview?).

My opinion.

Oh I agree it’s nothing compared to a crime of this magnitude. I was responding to those people who said they should have been able to find the Hyundai from records by now.