ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 28

[Cryptic]

My son was with the 82nd, Infantry and never was issued or used a knife. Neither did his father who was with 10th SFG. I have more fixed blade training than they do and all I do is prepare salads.

Thanks for the reinforcement of the point that military and large, fixed blade knives do not always go hand in hand.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

If I recall, it said 1100 block. Is there only 1 house on that block?

Unless it’s a public place, the MPD DAL’s rarely provide a specific address, presumably for privacy.

Here’s a link to a recent one so you can take a look at their typical protocol:
MPD Press Log 12/07/2022

HTH!

 

[DeDee]

Likely - previous knife skills. I don’t think it would be that easy to stab four people to death, even in a possibly psychotic rage. I think it take a lot of strength and physical muscle. Thinking about it makes me so sad.

Easily, for me, this is certainly one of the saddest cases of senseless deaths by brutal homicide ever.

A will to kill the target could stem from revenge that became four outrageous, murderous acts.

Revenge for some psychos is everything - to boost their ego - it's about getting even or stopping victims from succeeding. Revenge, Sex, and/or Money are the usual reasons humans are propelled to murder, oui?

Indeed, the durable strength and physical finesse of the killer of four was in his favor unless the victims drank themselves into oblivion once arriving home. Maybe the killer is a dedicated athlete; runner, skateboarder, ice hockey jock, or a fit tennis player.

Critical to the success of the deadly mission was the choice of capable weapons; very effective and not found.

moo omho
I think the killer had to slink and sneak around as quietly as possible as not to bring cause for arousal for the entire residents inside the 2211 house lest he may be recognized. Why must four die? moo omhoo

 

[blackbeary]

Reporting. Reliable or Unreliable?

@GhostGhost snipped for focus. Not directing this at you personally, just commenting in article linked in the ^ post. Idaho student killings: Coroner releases autopsy findings

IIUC, reporter suggests --- Mabbutt performed the autopsies.
Nope, nope, nopitie, nope.
I may be reading ^ incorrectly, but multiple other MSMs reported name of MEDICAL EXAMINER, a forensic pathologist, who performed autopsies.
A rushed article, or lack of reporter's understanding of diff btwn coronor and med examiner, or ??? IDK

___________________________________
Re Mabbutt:
Since 2006, Mabbutt has served as an elected official: Latah Co. CORONER, a part time job. I do not know what, if any, medical education or experience is required. The county website also states she was a nurse (RN) for many yrs. Elected Officials

Mabbutt Law Offices - Google Search

No list/directory of attys in firm. Unusual, bare bones website, for atty in private practice imo. Just two tabs: "Testimonials" and "Contact" which gives address & phone.

yellowpage online listing shows firm as doing criminal defense work.

Was she required to be present at the autopsies, and has knowledge of the findings?

 

[bonniejeanne17]

It's possible the killer is in Idaho. They may not have a direct connection to the victims, but may have had some kind of passing interaction with them. Maybe this interaction triggered the attack. It could have been an infatuation with one of the victims. Maybe their advances were spurned. Maybe there was jealousy involved. Maybe there was brief argument. Now days people die because of something as simple as road rage. So maybe the killer snapped because of something just as simple? So could the killer be from Moscow and still be there? If they had no direction connection with the victims and is able to stay under the radar because of that, I think it's possible.

IF heis still in the Moscow area, and hiding in plain sight, I wonder what his plans are tonight. December 12 - Dec. 13, overnight, particularly from 3-4 a.m.?

 

[drmrgrl]

Everything I’ve read about inflicting a knife wound, especially with a large fixed blade knife, indicates that it would take a lot of strength. What about college level athletes?
Also, do they tend to live on campus?

Yes. Athlete or somebody who lifts weights or works out IMO also likes to pimp and preen

 

[SophieRose]

Probably. I mean, presuming that they found touch DNA. I do not believe this killer cut himself and dripped blood anywhere. I do not believe he stepped in much blood, either - but if he had, his footprints might still yield some of his own DNA (from the soles of his feet, as we all walk around our own houses and get human dust on our feet). However, separating out the perp DNA might not result in a complete (23 pair) sample.

So they'd vacuum the house with special vacuum cleaners. The protocol for this listed in most forensic books is to use a special vacuum on the bodies of the victims, then on their bedding, then another bag for the room in general, and then of course, the stairs we know he used. Take swabs from that sliding glass door (he was probably gloved - very little DNA left).

They might even look at air filters (from the heating system). There are about 3 billion base pairs in the human genome. Many are shared among us, some have extremely diverse expression (that's what you want to find, so you can separate out the DNA). For example, nearly all of us have the same or similar allele for having 5 fingers on each hand. The 5 bones in a dolphin's fin come from a related but distinctive allele - but ours is quite similar to the one possessed by chimps. Nearly all of us have a very similar allele at that spot, doesn't help much in identifying.

So after the DNA is carefully reconstructed (the various alleles are marked off from each other with a unique punctuation-like set of codes), the investigators can go to specific places in the genes (if available) and start to see what individual markers this person has. There are lots of different ways to do this, and different subspecialties within this field of study.

But what if there is no complete sample of this person? What if it's only partial? Much can still be learned forensically, but it might not lead quickly to one specific person.

I would hope that they find the Y chromosome of this person, because that would place the person within a particular historic/ethnic group, more or less, and that could help the investigators decide which portions of the perp's gene map are most important to look at. Let's say he's R1A1b (a common Y chromosome in European men - mostly northern European men for that one). I'd then want to know the alleles for eye color, hair color, and several others (on different chromosomes - and those chromosomes are likely no longer linked together by the structure of a living cell...)

If instead, he's Q or R1b1 (like the men in my father's family), then those bits of information give a different overall ethnic/historic profile. Just that bit of information could help investigators narrow down a set of POI's.

Did you ever hear of the Setagaya family murder in Japan that happened back in 2000? A real whodunit. From the DNA left behind LE has all kinds of clues about the killer, but he still hasn't been caught 22 years later. I remember looking at the family house for hours back in 2000.

Setagaya family murder - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The killer's blood was gained during an analysis of the murder scene that revealed traces of Type A blood, which would not have belonged to the Miyazawa family. A DNA analysis of the Type A blood determined the killer is male and possibly mixed-race, with maternal DNA indicating a mother of European descent, possibly from a South European country near the Mediterranean or Adriatic Sea, and paternal DNA indicating a father of East Asian descent.[10]

It is considered possible that the European maternal DNA comes from a distant ancestor from the mother's line rather than a fully European mother. Analysis of the Y-chromosome showed the Haplogroup O-M122, a common haplogroup distributed in East Asian peoples, appearing in 1 in 4 or 5 Koreans, 1 in 10 Chinese, and 1 in 13 Japanese.[11] These results led to TMPD to seek assistance through the International Criminal Police Organization as the killer may not be Japanese or present in Japan.

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

The girls are tiny. Pure cowardice

 

[drmrgrl]

So, assuming that KG came accidentally, to surprise her BFF, and Ethan' stay in the residence was a last minute decision, what could be the connection between M @ X?

I might be wrong - after all, what is the best way to ambush a man but in his beloved one's house? As to KG, someone might think,
easier to reach her in college then travel later to TX. But, I see no connection between K@E. E is a little bit out of this picture; the reasons to kill him would be different.

They both worked at Mad Greek restaurant and belonged to the same sorority

 

[diggndeeperstill]

University of Idaho student essay: 'The fragile bubble I felt around our town quickly pops'

Senior journalism student Katarina Hockema wrote this essay about her feelings on the recent tragedy at the University of Idaho.

www.spokesman.com

....
Xana was in my consumer behavior marketing class, and Kaylee was in my friend’s sorority. Ethan shared a class with my roommate, and both Xana and Madison worked as servers at Mad Greek, a popular restaurant in Moscow. My parents swear that Xana waited on us the last time we ate there. Despite all of this, I don’t pretend to have known them. But UI is a small campus, and this touches all of us. Every student.

In some ways, I don’t believe I will ever view Moscow in the same light.

Is it still the quiet, safe, small town it was before?

Where can I walk?

When can I be alone?

How much do I worry about the darkness that now visits at 4 p.m.?

Pepper spray isn’t exactly the kind of thoughtful roommate gift you think you need until it’s attached to your key chain, weighing you down with the truth of your new reality.
....

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

A month later, investigators and experts agree UI homicide case is far from cold

Investigators work to fill in what happened in days prior to University of Idaho students’ deaths as deluge of tips flows in and families share doubts as time ticks on.

www.spokesman.com

Not to rekindle the urban v rural debate, bumping this from the excellent Emma Epperly article (bbm):

“In most rural areas, where the state police are likely to help with homicide investigations, there are “very few cases where they don’t have a suspect right away,” Skaggs said.

That leaves both local and state police likely with little experience in “whodunits” like this, he said. While the FBI is assisting on the case, it also doesn’t specialize in homicides, he added.

A quadruple homicide like this is rare, Skaggs said.

Melanie-Angela Neuilly, chair of the criminal justice and criminology department at Washington State University, agreed.

“When we’re looking at statistics, this type of event is definitely a more rare event,” Neuilly said.”

A month later, investigators and experts agree UI homicide case is far from cold

 

[drmrgrl]

So, assuming that KG came accidentally, to surprise her BFF, and Ethan' stay in the residence was a last minute decision, what could be the connection between M @ X?

I might be wrong - after all, what is the best way to ambush a man but in his beloved one's house? As to KG, someone might think,
easier to reach her in college then travel later to TX. But, I see no connection between K@E. E is a little bit out of this picture; the reasons to kill him would be different.

They both worked at Mad Greek restaurant and belonged to the same sorority

 

[Taffy550]

Ted Bundy Omega Chi murders. Idaho murders: ‘Rage,’ ‘randomness’ among similarities to Ted Bundy’s infamous killings, former attorney says Sorry if this was already posted. I feel as if this is not another student or a know person to the victims. I think this was a thrill kill. I also think this person will do it again. I remember watching the news when the Chi Omega murders occurred, I was 12. I remember the look of fright on the faces of the students. JMOO.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

University of Idaho student essay: 'The fragile bubble I felt around our town quickly pops'

Senior journalism student Katarina Hockema wrote this essay about her feelings on the recent tragedy at the University of Idaho.

www.spokesman.com

....
Xana was in my consumer behavior marketing class, and Kaylee was in my friend’s sorority. Ethan shared a class with my roommate, and both Xana and Madison worked as servers at Mad Greek, a popular restaurant in Moscow. My parents swear that Xana waited on us the last time we ate there. Despite all of this, I don’t pretend to have known them. But UI is a small campus, and this touches all of us. Every student.

In some ways, I don’t believe I will ever view Moscow in the same light.

Is it still the quiet, safe, small town it was before?

Where can I walk?

When can I be alone?

How much do I worry about the darkness that now visits at 4 p.m.?

Pepper spray isn’t exactly the kind of thoughtful roommate gift you think you need until it’s attached to your key chain, weighing you down with the truth of your new reality.
....

“About the writer​

Katarina Hockema is a senior journalism student at the University of Idaho and the editor of the student-run magazine, Blot. Hockema wrote this essay about her feelings on the recent tragedy at UI.”

 

[drmrgrl]

Speculating on the video they keep showing of Kaylee with Murphy. I would imagine tipsy Kaylee and Maddie would have had Murphy with them. She would probably have needed to let him out when she came home. I agree with you - unless the killer was friendly with Murphy. I would imagine that Murphy would have barked at the intruder unless the intruder was known to him. This bothers me a lot.

Yes. The fact that the dog was in danger too bothers me to the very core.

 

[mendicant]

“The use of sharp objects tends to be correlated with the offenders knowing their victims,” Melanie-Angela Neuilly, chair of the criminal justice and criminology department at Washington State University, said. “And having a closer relationship with their victims than (using) a gun, for instance.” A month later, investigators and experts agree UI homicide case is far from cold

And then there're no tell-tale gunshots echoing through the darkness.

Why else might a knife have been the weapon of choice? Could it be that the perpetrator took that weapon as a means of intimidation only, and that the murders were unplanned?

Or is at as simple as he had no access to a gun?

 

[blackbeary]

I’m not sure if this was posted yesterday. It is a fabulous discussion with a highly regarded profiler about how the FBI will go thru tips on the Elantra and a deep discussion on possible offender, and post offense behavior. One great quote was “Don’t screen the leads yourself”. Just do it, meaning send them in.

Idaho murders perpetrator brought ‘hatred’ into the crime scene: Mary Ellen O’Toole | Fox News Video

Retired FBI profiler Mary Ellen O'Toole discusses the Idaho murders and the Moscow police department’s recent efforts to acquire tips regarding a mysterious vehicle on ‘Fox News Live.’

www.foxnews.com

The profiler said this person hates, hates certain people or groups, what, in his mind, would "group" the 4 victims together? Thoughts, any and everyone??

 

[EncyclopediaBrownJr]

University of Idaho student essay: 'The fragile bubble I felt around our town quickly pops'

Senior journalism student Katarina Hockema wrote this essay about her feelings on the recent tragedy at the University of Idaho.

www.spokesman.com

....
Xana was in my consumer behavior marketing class, and Kaylee was in my friend’s sorority. Ethan shared a class with my roommate, and both Xana and Madison worked as servers at Mad Greek, a popular restaurant in Moscow. My parents swear that Xana waited on us the last time we ate there. Despite all of this, I don’t pretend to have known them. But UI is a small campus, and this touches all of us. Every student.

In some ways, I don’t believe I will ever view Moscow in the same light.

Is it still the quiet, safe, small town it was before?

Where can I walk?

When can I be alone?

How much do I worry about the darkness that now visits at 4 p.m.?

Pepper spray isn’t exactly the kind of thoughtful roommate gift you think you need until it’s attached to your key chain, weighing you down with the truth of your new reality.
....

Different people handle things certain ways. Some people will be unaffected and will go on like nothing happened. Others will be on a heightened sense of awareness.

Wasn't there some neighbors at 1122 partying hardy after the murders? It didn't effect them. I know when I was 21 there was a quadruple murder in the apartment complex next to mine. I kept my schedule which included running alone at 11pm at night.(We'll chalk that up to being young and dumb)

But that's ok, everybody reacts differently. I'd think about making some tweaks to the way you live. Obviously home security is paramount. Lights on outside, have a light on inside, shades down, curtains closed. Carry some bear spray and get a tactical knife to carry as well as put under your pillow. They also have rings with a mini knife you might want to look at buying. You can wear it when your walking out and about.

Whether you live in a small town, medium sized town or City, there should always be some thought towards security. Anybody that has watched a lot of true crime shows knows that crime can happen anytime, anywhere.

 

[LAhiker]

Some who might've acted differently from others at the memorial might've been undercover detectives scanning the crowd for other people who were acting oddly and might be the killer...

JMO

 

[slanda]

If neither Kaylee nor Ethan were residents of the house, then they were not the target.

If Xana was targeted, there was no need to go to the 3rd floor.

Logically, Maddy was the target. It was not a spur of the moment event, it was brewing for a long time and the semester was about to end - hence the timing. The perp is known to all of them as a casual acquaintance, a friend of a friend and he has been to the house. He came in through the front door and went straight up the stairs to her room. Kaylee was a surprise and became collateral damage. Exiting through the rear doors, Ethan or Xana saw him walk by their room and they are dead because he thought they surely recognized him.

It's one perp whom drives the white car and left a bucket of forensic evidence behind. It is being processed. This will be solved.

MOO

IMO, I agree with you Maddie very well may have been the target of it wasn’t a “house” target.

Two of the four people who were killed were not supposed to be there: K & E.

If there was a specific target, it deductively might very well have been Maddie: yes, the killer went to her room but he may not have known Kaylee was with her and her room was obvious from the outside because of the pink boots and “M” on the window sill. It’s possible Kaylee was sleeping closest to the door in the bed and that’s how she might have gotten the worst of it so he could reach his target, Maddie.

Maybe if the two people who weren’t supposed to be there, E & K, then, the house itself could have been targeted and maybe the other two surviving roommates might have met the same fate but the surprise victims threw the suspect off and “ruined” his plan(s) for the target victim or the target house.

But, yes, I agree with you and think it’s a sound hypothesis that Maddie may have been the target all along.

And obviously I hope the walls are closing in on this wretched and disgusting person.