ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 29

[STLSuperstar]

So I just looked at a map of Moscow. There seem to be a few reservations around that area. I’m wondering if a perp could have escaped to one of those. I have no idea what relationships are like between local LE and the reservation officials.

 

[livewiiiiire]

To be fair, I think people are putting too much emphasis on what the coroner said.The coroner has no idea because she is not a medical examiner. She's there to basically confirm whether the victims had pulse or not. She also said the victims were "likely" found asleep and "some" (implying more than one) had defensive wounds. Both Xana and Kaylee's father suggested that something went down on the second floor and it wasn't as "clean" for the killer as the upstairs murders.

I'd also add that the FOX news footage of the living room also holds significance. The cops were looking and stepping over something there that far exceeds a simple inspection of the house to me. They also took a DNA swab of the thing they were stepping over.

I don't know, I could be entirely wrong about all of this, but it seems to me that at least something went down in that living room.

Apologies but, could you help direct me to the footage of the living room that you reference? I admit, I haven't seen any of Fox's coverage as of late

 

[Twistinginthewind]

I agree this is a valid interpretation of "if" ... "then" in terms of possible targets and the killer(s) movements.

There are so many different ways of interpreting the possible (1) order chronologically of the 4 murders, (2) route followed through the house by the killer(s), (3) the number of assailants, (4) reasons behind the order or route followed or number of assailants...

The unknowns are so many, and in the "heat of the moment" the "best laid plans" of a person(s) who is intent on killing can change rapidly, and they just can react to the immediate circumstances.

Another possibility is that X and/or E on the second floor were the target(s) of the killer(s) and while they were being stabbed, K and/or M heard or saw something from above on the third floor that alerted them to trouble downstairs, and that is maybe why they made multiple calls to K's ex boyfriend according to LE (that went unanswered) during the timeframe LE think the murders occurred. So the killer could have gone up to the third floor to kill K and/or M after X and/or E because of what they heard or saw.

LE has a wide variety of forensic evidence to help narrow down the possibilities, it's just a matter of time for them to process all the evidence and data to home in on the most likely scenario(s) and suspect(s).

I think we all can agree on one thing, and that is that LE identifies a suspect(s) and there is resolution and justice for the victims and their loved ones ASAIHP (as soon as is humanly possible).

Replying to my own post to add:
If K and/or M heard or saw "unusual activity" downstairs or anywhere outside or inside of the house in the dark of the night when the rest of the household was asleep or had been asleep, or they had just gone to sleep and were awoken by something, then they must not have been sure what it was.

Otherwise, I think they would have dialed 911 instead of K's ex boyfriend? If they heard or saw something they must have continued to be unsure for around a half an hour (during the approximate timeframe they took turns calling K's ex boyfriend a number of times, according to LE - I think there is a link to this information in the Media Timeline Pages), but concerned enough to repeatedly call him? Or maybe they were trying to call him for another reason.

K and M's multiple calls to K's ex boyfriend in the middle of the night when K and M were at home just before and/or "around the time of the murders" are really confounding IMO.

 

[AuntTricia]

I wonder if his brother was there? Was he in the same fraternity? If yes to both he would be a wealth of information. Hopefully for many reasons he’s now remote learning. This is all Moo from me, but just things I’ve wondered.

Maybe there was a heated argument and E and X went to his room at the frat house to cool things down? Would females be allowed into the rooms of frat house bedrooms? Back in my college days males and females weren't allowed to mingle in each other's dorms.

 

[marloweclover]

Thinking about the fight and X theory: college student argument on a Saturday night. Odds are good both parties were drinking. There have been plenty of murders in the past where something then happened *immediately*. One party goes out to a car or to a room and brings back a weapon, or is already carrying one. Ok.

But to have the fight broken up, then to wait multiple hours, either sobering up and reconsidering or drinking more and getting less mentally and physically coordinated, and you just happen to have this kind of weapon already available, and you still have the will and energy after 3 am to break into a house, kill 4 people including 2 unrelated to the fight, and get away?

And despite the fact that in this scenario you are a person with friends, who went to parties, and would be known to the social group, no one noticed anything odd about the way you disappeared that night or the condition in which you returned, no one came forward and said you were way too angry, or out of control, or that they thought you might hurt someone who then turned up dead?

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

Unless the police have something good that they're not sharing, I'm thinking the killer got away with it at this point.

 

[Esdaniel]

Maybe there was a heated argument and E and X went to his room at the frat house to cool things down? Would females be allowed into the rooms of frat house bedrooms? Back in my college days males and females weren't allowed to mingle in each other's dorms.

Fraternity houses were different when I was in college in Texas. They were allowed to have parties, females sleep over etc. They really didn't have too many restrictions unlike the sorority houses. Most of the fraternity houses at my college were paid for by Alum. Not sure if the rules are still the same. Dorm rooms were different. Co-ed dorms had no rules about male/female sleepovers unless one of the roommates took offense. No males were allowed in our female only dorms overnight.

 

[AuntTricia]

From today's press release https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24932/12-13-22-Moscow-Homocide-Update



This line is intriguing to me. They clearly have evidence, or tips, to the effect that something occurred earlier in the evening that led directly to the murders. I think they have a long list of "who" that they are looking at (unofficially, of course), but need to fill in the rest of the blanks in order to pick the right one(s) out.

Perhaps they know who and are trying to find out others who covered up or otherwise involved. Get all the arrest warrants out at one time.

 

[femto]

Apologies but, could you help direct me to the footage of the living room that you reference? I admit, I haven't seen any of Fox's coverage as of late

Here

I believe this sign is right outside Xana's bedroom

 

[RayVon]

My take on the tears is not pleasant.
There is a technique used to maximize damage when you stab someone. Plunge the knife in and push it toward the edge (sharpened) side while pulling it out. This tears the flesh, does more organ damage, and increases the loss of blood.
Ick...

MHO

Horrible.

 

[Phryne Fisher]

n

Has SG said Kaylee specifically was targeted? Everything I’ve seen he either alludes to it or says he thinks it was Kaylee and/or Maddie.

I believe he said her injuries did not match the other victims. I think that is where this is coming from

 

[isabella88]

Perhaps they know who and are trying to find out others who covered up or otherwise involved. Get all the arrest warrants out at one time.

Or they could be trying to turn someone against others.

 

[gliving]

It is always beneficial to look into the attorney's areas of practice. I believe SG is hoping Mr. Gray can assist him in accessing documents that LE has. There are a lot of forms which must be filled out and filed. There may be other activities beyond that, as well.

Shanon Gray

Lake Oswego, Oregon attorney Shanon Gray. Legal practice includes criminal law and DUI. Research legal experience, education, social media, professional associations, jurisdictions and contact information on Justia.

lawyers.justia.com

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Criminal defense lawyer Beaverton | Portland Oregon Attorney | Beaverton Oregon Attorney

Criminal defense lawyer Beaverton. A well known lawyer in Portland Oregon Shanon Gray, can be reached at (503) 957-9699 He's also known as a Portland Oregon Attorney with an outstanding record in defending dui and all types of criminal cases.

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Shanon Gray

Shanon Gray is an attorney in Moscow, ID. Practice in Criminal, General Practice, DUI-DWI, Juvenile Law. - Lawyer.com

www.lawyer.com

Earlier this year:

https://www.osbar.org/_docs/dbreport/2021/GRAYShanon21-20&21-21.pdf

IN THE SUPREME COURT OF THE STATE OF OREGON
In re:
Complaint as to the Conduct of ) Case Nos. 21-20 & 21-21 ) SHANON GRAY, Respondent
Counsel for the Bar:
Rebecca Salwin Counsel for the Respondent:
David J. Elkanich Disciplinary Board:
None Disposition: Violation of RPC 1.5(c)(3), RPC 1.15-1(c), RPC 1.6(a).
Stipulation for Discipline. 30-day suspension. Effective Date of Order: January 21, 2022

 

[CityKid]

But where is that car?

I'm not sure which car you mean. Sigma Chi is within walking distance of the frat. X's and E's cars were in front of the house that morning, and I don't know know if they drove somewhere (like Jack in the Box in Pullman?) after 9 that night.

 

[PrairieWind]

IMOO - Sick individual who gets off on slicing and dicing.

But that doesn't seem to be the case here. From what we have heard, the stabbings were all to the chest, clear fatal blows. This killer was there to kill, not torture or mutilate.

 

[Balthazar]

Nothing really new here, although it is interesting to see the layout of the house BEFORE it became student housing: Idaho murders: Floor plan shows house where 4 college students were mysteriously killed one month ago

 

[finkleiseinhorn]

The lack of reward has me wondering. Have people turned the person in, but they don't have enough to charge?

I dont know why else there isn't one. (But also that doesn't make sense as we've got a car and someone would've connected those dots)

 

[TooMuchGun]

I think the killings are so severe, so over the top, so violent that I have a hard time thinking it was someone who was upset or revenge. If it was one person, maybe two, maybe. It just doesn't make any sense someone would do THAT because they were mad.

This person is different IMO. They have been thinking about doing this for some.

U think the Killer would have scouted the house and continued his plans knowing there was a dog? To me id move on unless I knew the dog wasn't home. I just can't see a SK thinking I don’t care if they have a dog.

 

[Jealoushe]

Have you ever seen a full grown man in a jealous rage? Yes, men can and do get that angry.

Yes, I was the victim of an attempted murder. So I am well aware of what men can become when they rage. I've lived to tell the tale. I've seen "that look" and only those who have seen it know what "that look" is.

However, there is a difference between strangling someone, stabbing someone, shooting someone, and slicing open an entire apartment of college students. Big difference.

 

[isabella88]

U think the Killer would have scouted the house and continued his plans knowing there was a dog? To me id move on unless I knew the dog wasn't home. I just can't see a SK thinking I don’t care if they have a dog.

The dog was shared, though. So perhaps the killer cased the place when it was with the boyfriend or with K at her parents' house?