ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 29

[gliving]

Not sure TikTok links work here. NewsNation Ashley B and Brian E discuss the gas station and Corner Bar CCTV

NewsNation on Instagram: "Police remain tight-lipped on the #IdahoFour case, but @brianentin confirms two locations they have been investigating."

269 likes, 6 comments - newsnationnow on December 12, 2022: "Police remain tight-lipped on the #IdahoFour case, but @brianentin confirms two locations they have been investigating.".

www.instagram.com

 

[Twistinginthewind]

IMOO, these horrific murders of K, M, X, and E -- young college students stabbed to death seemingly "out of nowhere" (without an obvious motive initially) -- remind me of these other murders:

Mollie Tibbets
Farm worker found guilty of killing University of Iowa student Mollie Tibbetts | CNN
The killer lived in the same small town where the victim was visiting back home on a break from college, and stalked the victim from afar (they were not known to eachother directly), followed by the killer swooping in when an opportunity presented itself -- the victim was housesitting alone while her boyfriend and housemates were out of town, she went for a run on a country road, and was abducted and then viciously stabbed to death at another location.

Kelsey Annese & Matthew Hutchinson
Murder-suicide in New York college town leaves 3 dead, police say | CNN
The killer was a long term boyfriend / person known to one of the victims (she had recently broken up with him) (they were intimately known to eachother), followed by the killer sneaking into her house in the middle of the night while she was asleep with a male friend in the same room -- this also happened in off campus housing with housemates on other floors of the house that heard nothing when the killer viciously stabbed them to death "in their sleep/in bed", then turned the knife on himself.

In both of these murders, the killer had a motive that was unclear at the time they stabbed the victims (college students) to death >> when they were alone and/or sleeping << which gave them a huge tactical advantage.

In Mollie's case, IIRC it took LE over a month to identify her killer (surveillance video and her fitbit/phone data were important) and he was later convicted.

In Annalese & Matthew's cases, IIRC the killer called a family member right after stabbing them and admitted to "harming her" (his ex girlfriend) and then killed himself, however it still took over a month for LE to confirm the suspect and motive and designate it a murder-suicide, and he only told one person the week before that he was "feeling low" about the breakup.

In K, M, X & E's cases, with such a stealthy approach to murdering 4 people in the middle of the night with possible multiple motives and/or targets, LE is sifting through an enormous amount of data and I'm confident they will identify the murderer(s) and bring them to justice ASAIHP (as soon as is humanly possible)! MOO!

 

[Curiousobserver]

With the attention and focus, not to have a suspect at this time is obviously a bad sign.

We are all going to be surprised when the break in the case finally comes.

MOO- this case is going to go unsolved for a while.

 

[Cryptic]

I'd also add that the brutal murder of 4 sleeping students is profoundly different from the "hazing gone wrong" scenarios we've seen before here, or even the "friend O'D so we left her/ him on the hospital steps / in a car / on the sidewalk" ones. In those situations, although there may be plenty of blame and guilt to go round, there is also a range of plausible justifications for inaction: "We didn't know he/ she was in trouble, it was just a game, we / I had to go through the same thing and it was fine" rationales that simply aren't there for this crime.

Very well said.

As you illustrated, there is a world of psychological differences for not being forthcoming regarding an unintended death and not being forthcoming about a very intended quadruple murder.

 

[OrlandoJames]

I never said it was revenge, so I have no answer for you.

For all I know, someone took a serious disliking to them for whatever reason.

JMO

Apologies for not reading your original post properly - I assumed you meant revenge, but that was my inference.

That would have to be one hell of a 'serious disliking'. I mean, what could these girls have done to make somebody want to do that to them? Unless of course it wasn't anything they'd done, but rather who they were in the eyes of the killer.

This is why I keep coming back to the idea of a sexually motivated crime. The house contained attractive young sorority girls. They were highly sociable and popular. It's not too much of a stretch to think that a disturbed man might regard them as representative of everything that is inaccessible to him - and for his attraction to them to turn into a psychopathic rage because they are beyond his reach.

All speculation, of course, but the level of violence in this case seems consistent with a sexually-motivated attack by a very disturbed male.

 

[Le Singe]

I think it's less than that. It would be interesting to know how many women have committed mass murders and what weapons were used in such crimes. The only women I can think of who killed multiple people are those that murdered their children. I would be very surprised if the killer turns out to be a woman.

I can't think of any crimes even remotely similar to this committed by a women. Especially not with a knife. This is 99% + a man MOO JMO.

 

[CeeMDubs]

These were young people in college and arguments, crushes, etc., would be pretty normal. There may simply be a deeply disturbed individual “hiding in plain sight” among them. He may have been rebuffed, insulted…or maybe nothing triggered him, and he simply wanted to experience killing. Maybe the house was targeted because it was a house full of women with easy accessibility.

The killer may have traits and talents that outwardly made him appear likable and “normal.” They could even be a psychopath. Not all psychopaths are violent, but psychopaths are often known to be very charming.

“…they are charming. They are fun to talk to, and they are the life and soul of the party. Although they can be a bit on the wild side, that can enhance our interest in them. They can also do some pretty outrageous things and get away with them, and this enhances their charisma.”

https://www.pennmedicine.org/news/news-blog/2018/september/psychopathy-murder-myths-media

“Psychopathic individuals who were very charismatic were able to get away with and avoid punishment for bad behaviors (e.g., cheating on romantic partners, lying, abusing work privileges, or criminal activity) more often than less charismatic psychopathic individuals,” explains Welsh.

New Research Tells Us Why Psychopaths Are Sometimes Able To Succeed In Society

A new study reveals how charisma and psychopathy work together to result in successful outcomes.

www.forbes.com

 

[seemstome]

at many speeds---the normal speed it was a jog---i asked also who wears baseball hats ( reminds me training day cops movie) all 4 i think on a sat at 3am?---do 4 guys go out on a sat with baseball hats and run/jog/hurry from party to party ? I say Vegas odds this ain't normal behavior---add the incident happening as they appear? Vegas odds THEN change-and not in favor of 4 out of 5 answers here. IMO

IMO it was four guys who fantasized about pulling off a group murder and did it. One in one. Four different knives. 5 minutes. In and out. Maybe had been at parties there before separately so knew layout of house, had excuse for dna being there, if it was discovered. Gave each other alibis. Sociopathic. Made, not born, killers. Friends.
Ego driven not sexual. Bonding ritual.

 

[CLGM]

Just popping in with a couple of thoughts:

The white Elantra- at first I thought this was the police throwing a red herring to take the heat off of the “lack of progress” & giving us sleuthers something (as opposed to someONE) to chew on- maybe a semi-credible tip & hey, we can dig up dirt! But the more I think about it the more significant it becomes. Namely because IMO they really don’t need any more tips at the moment, especially of the “go chase your tail” variety. If they’re asking, it’s going somewhere. Hopefully to confirm something they already know, but possibly to open a new door on a new suspect?

If I had to guess, the real holdup is twofold: one, waiting to process DNA samples. There are software systems that can “un-mingle” mixed samples pretty handily, but what to do with the results? That’s delay number two- old-fashioned investigating.

Whose DNA does not belong? Probably an unknown male, but will he be in CODIS? Unlikely given the profile a lot of us seem to agree upon- younger, has not been caught/charged with any felony or had reason to provide a DNA sample to LE in the past… So can’t we do a genealogical profile? Maybe, but probably not, at least not as fast as we’d like. Phenotyping requires a single, clean sample which I doubt we have (yet). Whatever LE has been able to pull as of now is, IMO, a pretty cloudy (co-mingled) sample of an unknown-to-LE male using touch DNA from fabric. (Likely sweat, spit, or skin cells.) If I’m right, that sample maybe just came in because it requires a more in-depth collecting/testing process than just swabbing a pool of blood off of a smooth surface, let alone the untangling of a blended sample. So if we have no idea who it could belong to, where to compare it? Maybe samples from a car? (I dunno.) It will probably require a warrant or surveillance to get those samples, and that can take time, especially if you don’t know where to start (I hope they do.)

As far as the 911, unconscious person call- I’m firmly in the roommate-fainted-outside camp. The “couldn’t get a second-floor occupant to wake up” description was one or both survivors going on about E being very badly hurt & the helpful bystander’s translation (I do believe they took over the call, hence the “roommates phone but maybe-probably not the caller”) got muddled. I really think the focus was the fainted girl, to start.

And the rest? So hard to say. I believe a local, either current or just left (within a year.) Slightly older than the victims, knew them enough to be verrry upset about *something*. It really would be nice to know more about X & E’s movements and the interactions at the fraternity. I think there is a lot more there & the police know it, too. Probably not enough to make X & E the primary targets (still leaning toward K) but possibly enough to set the “plan” into action and/or provide confirmation K was in town so now or never…

I like sharing theories here because there are always details I seem to miss or aspects I hadn’t considered- this case seems like such a riddle and I think we are compelled to attempt a solution if only for the sake of self-preservation; this could happen to anyone as far as we know! Very, very scary and my heart absolutely goes out to the friends and families as well as the community in Moscow.

Back to lurking, this is 1,000% MOO and simply food for thought.

Excellent post, thank you!

 

[Zinn]

This isn’t directed at anyone in particular because I’ve seen multiple people express this opinion, but what exactly is Occam’s Razor in this case? No need for anyone to reply, especially because most theories may be against TOS! I just see people stating Occam’s Razor applies to this one and I am at a loss as to how the known facts can lead to (1) an obvious answer, which is what most people think Occam’s Razor is or (2), the answer with the simplest set of facts to lead you to a conclusion, the least mental gymnastics, which is what Occam’s Razor truly is.

I’m not saying that anyone’s theory based on an Occam’s Razor type situation is invalid though. Maybe I’m just jealous because I can’t even pare any theory down to “obvious” or “simple”! I don’t even have a theory actually.

I haven’t used this terminology here but in general would say it could apply to identifying an obvious commonality between at least one victim in one room and at least one victim in another room such that at least two were targeted, guessing the perpetrator was a man (or men), guessing he/they were familiar with the layout of the house, guessing he/they had knife skills, and guessing there was some familiarity with the victims and associated hostility. Not suggesting these are all true in this case, just answering your question. JMO.

 

[Dre]

They mentioned a fight that Xana broke up on Dr. Phil yesterday.

This seems to be glossed over. Is there any information on it?

Totally agree, I feel like we've been waiting for information like this to come out!

All I can come up with is a very very bitter, unhinged, strong and confident young male. Frat? (MOO)

 

[CeeMDubs]

why run if drunk on way home? also who wears bb hats on a sat nite out?

What’s a bb hat, and who was wearing one?

 

[thx4_medic_Babby]

Not sure TikTok links work here. NewsNation Ashley B and Brian E discuss the gas station and Corner Bar CCTV

NewsNation on Instagram: "Police remain tight-lipped on the #IdahoFour case, but @brianentin confirms two locations they have been investigating."

269 likes, 6 comments - newsnationnow on December 12, 2022: "Police remain tight-lipped on the #IdahoFour case, but @brianentin confirms two locations they have been investigating.".

www.instagram.com

I'm currently unable to watch, but is the gas station in reference on Taylor (from 95)?

 

[Dre]

IMO it was four guys who fantasized about pulling off a group murder and did it. One in one. Four different knives. 5 minutes. In and out. Maybe had been at parties there before separately so knew layout of house, had excuse for dna being there, if it was discovered. Gave each other alibis. Sociopathic. Made, not born, killers. Friends.
Ego driven not sexual. Bonding ritual.

<modsnip> you should write movies!

 

[The OG]

at many speeds---the normal speed it was a jog---i asked also who wears baseball hats ( reminds me training day cops movie) all 4 i think on a sat at 3am?---do 4 guys go out on a sat with baseball hats and run/jog/hurry from party to party ? I say Vegas odds this ain't normal behavior---add the incident happening as they appear? Vegas odds THEN change-and not in favor of 4 out of 5 answers here. IMO

There's nothing at all unusual about college students, male and female, wearing baseball caps on a weekend. In fact, in the college towns where I work, the majority do. The running is not all that common, but not suspicious.

 

[Lillymac]

Goncalves surmised that they died in Mogen's bedroom on the third floor because "there are photos of Kaylee's room with no blood on the bed."

Source.

Didn't he also say he had more information, but when he asked if he could share it publicly, LE told him no?

 

[Lindadanette]

RSBM
I'm going to go out on a limb and say this person is not schizophrenic. First, although a there is a small increase of risk of violence in people with schizophrenia, the overwhelming majority do not kill anyone. Second, given the base rate of people without schizophrenia, any murderer is more likely not to have schizophrenia than to have it.

I'm one of the people who mentioned mental illness. I agree with you with the caveat that it is possible, but not as a stranger, but someone who knew the victims well.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I would not recommend that whatsoever.

Just get the car and plate #, if you're lucky enough to find the car.

 

[gliving]

IMOO, these horrific murders of K, M, X, and E -- young college students stabbed to death seemingly "out of nowhere" (without an obvious motive initially) -- remind me of these other murders:

Mollie Tibbets
Farm worker found guilty of killing University of Iowa student Mollie Tibbetts | CNN
The killer lived in the same small town where the victim was visiting back home on a break from college, and stalked the victim from afar (they were not known to eachother directly), followed by the killer swooping in when an opportunity presented itself -- the victim was housesitting alone while her boyfriend and housemates were out of town, she went for a run on a country road, and was abducted and then viciously stabbed to death at another location.

Kelsey Annese & Matthew Hutchinson
Murder-suicide in New York college town leaves 3 dead, police say | CNN
The killer was a long term boyfriend / person known to one of the victims (she had recently broken up with him) (they were intimately known to eachother), followed by the killer sneaking into her house in the middle of the night while she was asleep with a male friend in the same room -- this also happened in off campus housing with housemates on other floors of the house that heard nothing when the killer viciously stabbed them to death "in their sleep/in bed", then turned the knife on himself.

In both of these murders, the killer had a motive that was unclear at the time they stabbed the victims (college students) to death >> when they were alone and/or sleeping << which gave them a huge tactical advantage.

In Mollie's case, IIRC it took LE over a month to identify her killer (surveillance video and her fitbit/phone data were important) and he was later convicted.

In Annalese & Matthew's cases, IIRC the killer called a family member right after stabbing them and admitted to "harming her" (his ex girlfriend) and then killed himself, however it still took over a month for LE to confirm the suspect and motive and designate it a murder-suicide, and he only told one person the week before that he was "feeling low" about the breakup.

In K, M, X & E's cases, with such a stealthy approach to murdering 4 people in the middle of the night with possible multiple motives and/or targets, LE is sifting through an enormous amount of data and I'm confident they will identify the murderer(s) and bring them to justice ASAIHP (as soon as is humanly possible)! MOO!

Good list @Twistinginthewind It reminded me of Tristyan Bailey who was stabbed over 100 times by Aiden Fucci. The two were younger than college age but the murder was also over-kill by knife.

 

[Birmingplumb]

There's nothing at all unusual about college students, male and female, wearing baseball caps on a weekend. In fact, in the college towns where I work, the majority do. The running is not all that common, but not suspicious.

Thanks- first answer I believe-me far removed from what folk wear and deem attractive these days --back in the day - we did not hide our looks with a hat- just saying--whether a greaser or a hippie or a disco kid--so I gotta believe you.