ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 33

[Missyrocks5]

So many things going on here. If we just have heard about these few things, that’s not even a bit of the actual evidence LE knows. I am hoping that the Pullman SWAT situation turns out to be related. They’re not releasing his name and I hope they’re investigating whether he knew anyone who has that Elantra. The owner may have no idea the car was taken in the middle of the night and returned, perhaps, etc. I’m just praying it ends up related because the danger to the community would be over. I do feel like, regardless of who it turns out to be, LE has a good idea who, and they’re just trying to gather the evidence to make an arrest or announcement. I hope so,

 

[Angelcat13]

That’s one of the routes I had been contemplating to take Palouse River Dr into account as the southern boundary of the original grid. I made this one earlier tonight taking into account the video from Linda Lane of the vehicle on Taylor heading west and the video on White also heading west. (Still not convinced that the White Ave video is the car they are looking for, but the LE checks in Troy and Kendrick may indicate that LE is trying to see if the Elantra originally came from that direction and we might have a later timeline.)

I am not familiar with the area, but when I previously looked at the map I considered that same route for two reasons -

1. It’s more rural looking, so possibly a better location to change clothes, ditch evidence. He may have protected the car seats/console with plastic beforehand, so there wouldn’t be much clean-up.

2. If the car were caught on camera, the driver could claim they were returning to the area and wouldn’t initially be as suspicious as if they took a direct route from the scene.

 

[cottonweaver]

The 22,000 number...
@645,000 Elantras sold 2011-2013 in the US
Idaho has one half of one percent of the US population
So that is @32,500 2011-2013 Elantras sold in Idaho.
They came in ten colors, one being white. Say white was average
@3,250 2011-2013 white Elantras sold in Idaho

Even if they don't get totalled, a low $$ figure bar as that car ages, the lifespan of Elantras is on average 10 years/$150k. (doesn't pay to put a new engine/tranny in) So....maybe half of them should be off the road by now.

Even conservatively, that is like 2,000.

very useful

So Idaho MV investigators will already have narrowed it down to the - couple of hundred? - owned by residents in Moscow ( excluding owners within the student population) and have moved on to look at neighbouring towns.
( Idaho State population c 2 million, Moscow population 25k)

Idaho Transportation Department has its own investigators as does the DMV ( who do assist LE)

 

[layer]

I'll be very surprised if not one but several of the victims knew their killer. Someone was very angry. (Insert therory) Killing by knife is an up close and personal deal. This doesn't have a feel for a random mass murder, by a stranger, to me.

How about pummeling sleeping people with a log? Not up close and personal?

 

[LadyBelle]

That car had to go somewhere right after the crime to be cleaned up, where? If not the boonies, someone must've noticed!

Wear two sets of clothes. Take dirty set off, throw them, shoes and knife in a box in the back seat.
Wipe exterior of car entry and interior with mix of clorox/water. Burn box, it's contents and the car's floor pads. Done.

 

[cottonweaver]

Elantra

What if he knew where someone kept their keys and took it without their knowledge - and returned it?

especially when many Moscow people keep saying on TV that many don't lock their cars and don't lock their homes at night.

 

[Marie A]

Ted Bundy was the serial killer who murdered women in the Chi Omega house, not Dahmer.

That’s who I meant! Thanks for correcting this

 

[cottonweaver]

Idaho Murders Update as 50 Search Warrants Obtained in Investigation

so the police have at last 50 search warrants they have turned into the court. The6 are working hard to find answers

plus a helluva lot of subpoenas to produce electronically stored information.

 

[SMK777]

Agreed! And they stated that the name would be released later that day:
Loftis also said WSP will provide the man's name and make a statement about the incident this afternoon.

Now they are saying:
The Whitman County Coroner’s Office will release the name of the decedent when appropriate.

Could it possibly be that law enforcement are investigating him to clear him, even if only perfunctory?

 

[SophieRose]

University of Idaho victim's father says Xana Kernodle had 'bruises,' put up a fight against killer

University of Idaho murder victim Xana Kernodle's father said the 20-year-old had 'bruises' and was 'torn by the knife' while putting up an apparent fight with her attacker.

www.foxnews.com

"Bruises, torn by the knife," Jeff Kernodle told Arizona news outlet 3TV/ CBS 5, adding that her injuries showed signs of putting up a fight against her attacker. "She’s a tough kid. Whatever she wanted to do, she could do it,"

Offensive Vs Defensive Wounds: Forensic Injuries & Medico-Legal Importance

Offensive and Defensive wounds are the wounds that could occur during close encounters between the offender and victim. They are likely be considered as the sides of coins, but here, offensive injuries are rarely seen as compared to defensive wounds. Forensic Medico-legal Comparison of Defensive...

forensicreader.com

So whether it is an offense or defense wound, the goal of the victim is to protect himself or herself. But in an offense wound, the person tries to incapacitate the attacker which is, of course, not full reflexive.

 

[indicolite22]

Someone posted this map in a previous thread but the thread closed before I could add my thought. IMO the circuitous route the white Elantra allegedly took from the the scene to where it is caught on the gas station/food mart video (Hwy 8 by E White Ave) makes me believe that the driver knew the location of the cameras.

I drive a lot and I don’t make a mental note of where traffic cameras are or may be, so this makes me believe that IF the white Elantra is related to the murders, the killer really did a lot of planning to avoid detection and researched the camera locations prior to the crime. And then was able to stay calm enough to not make any wrong turns that led him past the cameras.

Because of this, IMO this guy likely practiced driving this route in the days/weeks before. I believe LE’s comment about looking for “patterns” may relate to this.

IMO, chances are that the Elantra passed the police car on Taylor Ave (near Linda Lane and King Street) on its way towards the house between 2:45 and 3:15. Police body cam recorded an incident there from 2:53 till 3:15.

 

[Crystal clear truth]

It really strikes me that the Killer in this situation I believe took care in planning and executing this murder and yet his choice of getting to site or his getaway was a car? Just doesn't compute for me. Thoughts?

 

[smokeybandit]

The unsub appeared to have knowledge of the victims' social circle and inside knowledge of the house. And the timing of the white car arriving from out of town soon after the victims returned to the house and went to sleep suggests the unsub may have known the victims' movements that night.

Could the unsub have gained the inside knowledge he needed to commit the crime only using publicly available information available on the internet? Apparently, yes. Look at all the info we found at the beginning of the investigation. The zillow of the house, the social media posts, and then you have the food truck livestream. It's a small town. I bet the victims often visited that food truck and were on the same livestreams prior to the murders. Also, I wonder what other social media and public internet accounts the victims had that we don't know about.

I want to look at this crime from a different perspective. Let's assume (just so we can ask the next question) the unsub got all of the info they need to commit the crime from open sources on the internet. Is there any inside info about the house or the victims' social circle the unsub had to acquire from other sources (esp info he had to gain IRL) in order to commit the crime? The locks maybe? What else? And how would the unsub have gathered that particular info IRL?

 

[smokeybandit]

Also, if the unsub spent so much time planning the crime and evading capture, then why was his car apparently caught on the traffic and neighborhood cameras? Why didn't the unsub do a better job planning to evade the traffic cameras going to and from the house?

 

[TGIRecovered]

So many things going on here. If we just have heard about these few things, that’s not even a bit of the actual evidence LE knows. I am hoping that the Pullman SWAT situation turns out to be related. They’re not releasing his name and I hope they’re investigating whether he knew anyone who has that Elantra. The owner may have no idea the car was taken in the middle of the night and returned, perhaps, etc. I’m just praying it ends up related because the danger to the community would be over. I do feel like, regardless of who it turns out to be, LE has a good idea who, and they’re just trying to gather the evidence to make an arrest or announcement. I hope so,

When a person buys a used car, there is no way to be sure that the previous owner or someone who had access to the car didn't keep a copy of the key. If the killer still had a key, he could easily "borrow" it, commit the crime, and return it without the new owner's knowledge and with no evidence of hotwiring. I think it's possible that the white Elantra's owner has been checked out and found to be on the up and up because they have no idea that it was used while they slept. Just a possibility. MOO

 

[SoHelpMeGod]

Just my thoughts:
The white car could have been making a "delivery". While sitting near the residence of the buyer (NOT anyone at 1122 King Rd) waiting for them to come outside the car's headlights were shining on some part of 1122 King and grounds (likely the side/back area).
This:
1) Caused the killer to exit 1122 King earlier than planned ( the house, or rather household, was the target), and the killer may or may not have been seen exiting the residence by the white car occupant(s).
2) The killer only intended to kill the 4 (students were the target), and while exiting 1122 may have been seen by the occupant(s) of the white car.
3) The killer may have been in the process of entering the residence when the white car pulled up and may have been seen, OR the killer might have been in the back watching the residence and been seen.

Kaylee may have let the dog out (to do his business) through the 2nd floor/ground floor slider, went up to the 3rd floor to be with Maddie while the slider was still open, and she fell asleep before going back down to call the dog in and close the slider. The dog could have re-entered the house at any time. In this scenario the slider was open and the 2nd and 3rd floor lights were on.

JMO, I think the killer had been watching the house and occupants for quite a while from behind the house. I think they live within the original request for information area (still included in the press releases). I think they traveled to/from the house on foot. And I don't think they had to walk very far at all.

Regarding the fact that the victims all had their fatal wound in their chest (as reported by the Coroner): The killer may have been targeting their hearts. IF what SG said about Kaylee's wounds is true (that they don't match Maddie's), it may have been more difficult to get the murder weapon between ribs on Kaylee's chest in the correct location due to her full bust. And Kaylee may have awoken and been moving also making chest targeting even more difficult. The liver has a Left lobe. It doesn't seem unusual that a lung would be pierced.



MOO

 

[GhostGhost]

The unsub appeared to have knowledge of the victims' social circle and inside knowledge of the house. And the timing of the white car arriving from out of town soon after the victims returned to the house and went to sleep suggests the unsub may have known the victims' movements that night.

Could the unsub have gained the inside knowledge he needed to commit the crime only using publicly available information available on the internet? Apparently, yes. Look at all the info we found at the beginning of the investigation. The zillow of the house, the social media posts, and then you have the food truck livestream. It's a small town. I bet the victims often visited that food truck and were on the same livestreams prior to the murders. Also, I wonder what other social media and public internet accounts the victims had that we don't know about.

I want to look at this crime from a different perspective. Let's assume (just so we can ask the next question) the unsub got all of the info they need to commit the crime from open sources on the internet. Is there any inside info about the house or the victims' social circle the unsub had to acquire from other sources (esp info he had to gain IRL) in order to commit the crime? The locks maybe? What else? And how would the unsub have gathered that particular info IRL?

But how does he know - I’m going to bed now. I’m turning off the lights now.

Timing is impeccable

-

 

[Barry]

Thinking over the car and the owner not coming forward, there's is one scenario where it might not be where occupants of the car are the perps.

They (the occupant(s)) of the car may have just happened to be right on kings road when the crime occurred. They may have heard the scream the neighbor referenced, and a bit afterwards saw the killer leave the house. If they happened to know the killer and the killer looked right at them, they high tailed it out of there.

The reason to not come forward would be fear. In this scenario, they have critical information but are not involved in the crime. Also in this scenario, the killer may be looking for them as well as LE.

Not coming forward may not be an indication of guilt, and this scenario would be an alternative explanation for that.

A big MOO, and total speculation on my part.

 

[smokeybandit]

Why does it seem like we know everything about this crime except the ID of the unsub? Because the unsub used the internet just like we're doing. IMO

 

[GhostGhost]

Thinking over the car and the owner not coming forward, there's is one scenario where it might not be where occupants of the car are the perps.

They (the occupant(s)) of the car may have just happened to be right on kings road when the crime occurred. They may have heard the scream the neighbor referenced, and a bit afterwards saw the killer leave the house. If they happened to know the killer and the killer looked right at them, they high tailed it out of there.

The reason to not come forward would be fear. In this scenario, they have critical information but are not involved in the crime. Also in this scenario, the killer may be looking for them as well as LE.

Not coming forward may not be an indication of guilt, and this scenario would be an alternative explanation for that.

A big MOO, and total speculation on my part.

That neighbor first said No Scream, later said crazy snit