ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 33

[OldCop]

It would be chilling to me too, but I’ve been at a party where that very thing happened. I was 17 or 18, and we were young and stupid and there was pot. And an older guy in his early twenties went to the door cool as a cucumber, apologized that the music was loud. We turned the music down. I suppose there was no probable cause for the cops to come inside, it was simply loud music.

But… No way the cops could not smell the pot smoke coming out of the front door, It was thick in there. The cops didn’t want to fool with it and the guy apologizing gave them an excuse to blow it off. So they left.

I think this was similar, the cops just wanted the music turned down so they could get on their way. The boys did not look stumbling drunk, and the girl who answered the door was ok.

JMO

If you’re a cop in a college town you spend every Friday and Saturday night responding to loud party calls.
The person who makes the call has a right to peace and quiet and LE has to respond. They’re not going around looking for parties and harassing young adults just for the heck of it.

 

[Sleuth_Noob]

And just to clarify because I feel like you would remember better than me, the gas station video still was from a worker at the gas station and not actual released by LE, correct? I think that’s where people are getting confused!

That picture alone isn’t what LE is going off of is my point.

Correct—That video was not released by LE, and neither was the more recently released surveillance street cam footage from earlier that night.

 

[sunshineray]

Whatever that means. Some rando saw a bunch of pretty girls that partied often and targeted the entire house. The occupants would still be the target. No one is mad at the house and if they were, they could burn it down.

Someone could have been angry at the house and in turn the kids that lived there and the ones that visited, non-distinguishable from one another. The house represented a lifestyle and the people that lived it could definitely have become a target, collectively. What makes a hateful person advance to physical violence is a very subjective and therefore a relative thing...especially if that person has mental illness. I think killing 4 young people in the night, in their beds with a knife screams of some kind of illness of the mind. AJMO

 

[AngTxGal]

I wrote this many threads ago. He wore a Dexter paper suit, women’s nylon stocking covering his hair and head, possibly cutout for the eyes, a paper suit with booties, hood (worn under the baklava), gloves and all. Nary a trace left behind, and the trace has to be located to be of any use. I believe he wore his kill kit into the home (via the sliders) and placed his backpack on the table. He went about eliminating the subjects he had come to kill, and then peeled off the coverings at the threshold or just outside of it. Everything including his special homemade blade is in the backpack. He walks away and either leaves via bike, car, etc., or (hope not) he resides nearby and within walking distance and the line of sight.
And remember…he had NINE GLORIOUS HOURS of a head start before the other roomates raised the alarm. That is the biggest tragedy. The time which passed after the crime was committed. JMOO.

Problem is- he didn’t know he had those nine hours.
He would have acted as if he had only two or three. So what did he do?

Lives close by, lives local walked or drove home, or took advantage of the upcoming holiday and left town until January.
If he read up on what happened when murders happened near universities he could have predicted the enormity of the reaction- school give students options such as during Covid.

JMO

 

[AngTxGal]

Someone could have been angry at the house and in turn the kids that lived there and the ones that visited, non-distinguishable from one another. The house represented a lifestyle and the people that lived it could definitely have become a target, collectively. What makes a hateful person advance to physical violence is a very subjective and therefore a relative thing...especially if that person has mental illness. I think killing 4 young people in the night, in their beds with a knife screams of some kind of illness of the mind. AJMO

I think what you describe sounds reactionary and disorganized, it has been too long for a sloppy disorganized killer to not be caught.
This perp planned, read up, purchased needs, lurked about, watched, waited until the timing was exactly correct before they struck.

JMO

 

[Sleuth_Noob]

Someone could have been angry at the house and in turn the kids that lived there and the ones that visited, non-distinguishable from one another. The house represented a lifestyle and the people that lived it could definitely have become a target, collectively. What makes a hateful person advance to physical violence is a very subjective and therefore a relative thing...especially if that person has mental illness. I think killing 4 young people in the night, in their beds with a knife screams of some kind of illness of the mind. AJMO

That’s really all the profile that you need: a violent, sadistic, psychopath. In everyday life, this person probably has a ‘short fuse’ and is probably known to ‘blow up’ periodically to neighbors, acquaintances, co-workers and family.

The danger in LE releasing a profile so to speak, is that a good defense attorney can use that purported profile against prosecution in a trial if the profile isn’t spot on.

 

[femto]

The word target does not inherently imply that the killer was "mad" at the victim. I could relate the stories of dozens of killers who targeted their victims for reasons ranging from being easy prey (like prostitutes and hitch hikers) to looking like someone they were rejected by, to someone they considered attractive.

In the case of this residence, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that it is dark, has a huge, dark back yard from which to spy on the occupants, has several windows without curtains, no cameras, no security system, and while in a neighborhood that is fairly high occupancy, is strangely remote.

The area around the house is dark, true, but that is really its only advantage for an attack. And even that is debatable because the parking lot behind the back where cars come and go is dangerous place to be if you're stalking. I've explained it in my previous post, but the house is really, really bad place to strike for a killer. Not only does the house have multiple occupants, but it's built like a maze. You really have to know where you're going or you might get lost and enter the wrong door, awaken someone, dog or whatever. The fact that this killer went there and awoke no-one shows that he was comfortable in that environment - either was there as a visitor before or stalked the house extensively. There's almost no escape routes outside the house. The only place you can leave are basically full of cameras towards Taylor Ave or the trees behind the house which leads you to the only route out from that area which is Walenta Dr. Walenta Dr itself has only one path leading out of the area - the rest are dead ends. The area around the house is also surprisingly active even at 3:00 AM since it's mostly young students situated there. The girls also came home very late so he either stalked that house for a long time or knew when they'd be back. Either way, it was planned and the house was chosen specifically. If he didn't care who was in the house, he could have just attacked the surviving roommates who came home much earlier. No, this guy waited until 3:00 AM to 4:00 AM to commence his attacks which speaks of a clear objective to me.

I'll say it again - this is really not an area you'd hit if you don't feel comfortable in it. The killer has to be the luckiest idiot in the world if he just stumbled upon that house randomly and decided to hit it just because. To me this whole thing speaks about a guy that is comfortable in the environment and has knowledge of both the house and area, but is still very amateur-like in his design and attack considering the risks he took. Knife also implies a very personal and rage induced attack and even disregard for his own life. I don't think this guy is some random who just chose these victims out of pure chance.

 

[sunshineray]

It is also indicative of pathological stalking, IMO, because the only way he would've known that that night was his opportunity to fulfill his fantasy is if he had studied their prior patterns well and patiently laid in wait for the right opportunity.

My opinion.

Immediate anger can also be a catalyst to action. Killer may have had violent wishes but never acted on them until something made the difference in the degree of anger they felt. I'm not condoning their rage in the least, just thinking something may have occured that particular night that finally set them off. JMO

 

[Trouble1321075]

We don't know what evidence was found nor how long the killer took. While I'd love to know all the theories and lines of inquiry LE are investigating, in today's day and age with mass media online and in nearly every citizen's hand, it comes down to a choice between public knowledge and keeping evidence valuable for use in prosecution by not talking about it...unless the public's help is needed. I think LE are closer than anyone thinks to arresting the guilty but that can't be done quite yet, before prosecutors know they have the evidence to convict, not just charge. AJMO

I agree the police are not going to make it public who they are looking at unless they have no choice. Obviously an arrest would be public or if they execute a search warrant that would most likely be public knowledge and they would be forced to make the suspect as a POI.

There is also the distinct possibility that they don't have any suspects yet.

Right or wrong the police have not disclosed any details to the public. I think it's kinda foolish to jump to any conclusions before they do.

The police may be doing a great job and nowhere near identifying the person responsible. They also might be close to an arrest as you suggested. I'm curious why you think they are close to an arrest?

I personally think all the signs point to the opposite. They are either very good at hiding what they have or they have nothing.

One thing we do know is that the crime occurred in a high traffic location. That could mean the task of clearing people not involved but we're inside the residence could be daunting and taking a lot of time and resources to complete.

I also think that how quickly the FBI became involved indicates that there was something at the crime scene that made them feel that they needed expertise that went beyond local or state resources. I'm very curious what triggered that.

I feel like I am the pessimist to your optimism, lol. I'm feeling like it's very possible that the killer is going to get away with it.

 

[AngTxGal]

I wonder if the Elantra was owned by a car dealership or was being held by an autoshop for repair. A mechanic, collison tech, would have keys to the car and access to various plates. I did a search looking to buy a 2011-2013 elantra and found it odd that I couldn't find a single white one until I hit 300 miles from Moscow's zipcode.

A small town may not have many used car dealerships
Cars would be moved between dealerships for sales rather than kept all on the local lot.
Online shopping for used cars has changed the business quite a bit, from my understanding.

JMO

 

[Lillymac]

If you’re a cop in a college town you spend every Friday and Saturday night responding to loud party calls.
The person who makes the call has a right to peace and quiet and LE has to respond. They’re not going around looking for parties and harassing young adults just for the heck of it.

It's interesting you say every Friday and Saturday night, and I agree. But I checked the day of the week and September 1, was a Thursday. People probably had to work the next day. I wouldn't like it either. I have sympathy for any police officer in a large city or a college town!!

 

[kittythehare]

Because he left so little evidence at all. The killer was literally “in and out” in mere minutes. With so many series and television docs on the study, pursuit, and conviction of murderers and their M.O.’s, it doesn’t take much to prepare for such an event and figure out how to NOT leave shoe prints, finger prints, or DNA.

We do not actually know that to be the truth.
He could easily have spent 3 hrs there.
We don't know he left no footsteps or bloody tracks outside the residence.
We do not know because LE have not made that information public and if anybody else has it they are not talking.

 

[NCgardener]

I wrote this many threads ago. He wore a Dexter paper suit, women’s nylon stocking covering his hair and head, possibly cutout for the eyes, a paper suit with booties, hood (worn under the baklava), gloves and all. Nary a trace left behind, and the trace has to be located to be of any use. I believe he wore his kill kit into the home (via the sliders) and placed his backpack on the table. He went about eliminating the subjects he had come to kill, and then peeled off the coverings at the threshold or just outside of it. Everything including his special homemade blade is in the backpack. He walks away and either leaves via bike, car, etc., or (hope not) he resides nearby and within walking distance and the line of sight.
And remember…he had NINE GLORIOUS HOURS of a head start before the other roomates raised the alarm. That is the biggest tragedy. The time which passed after the crime was committed. JMOO.

Imo, moo, If it's the perp I think it is (actual identity unknown), he wore a black mask over his head when he did it last year.

 

[sunshineray]

I think what you describe sounds reactionary and disorganized, it has been too long for a sloppy disorganized killer to not be caught.
This perp planned, read up, purchased needs, lurked about, watched, waited until the timing was exactly correct before they struck.

JMO

There are, unfortunately, some brilliant, organized yet extremely sick minds. I don't know why so many think a month is that long of a time in an investigation like this. It may take 6 months before this killer is finally apprehended (meaning arrested, not identified) and that, in my mind, would be quick. AJMO

 

[Curiosa20]

2.45-3.15 drive white Elantra past outside of 1122 check all cars are there and lights off - park car in Walenta street and walk through wooded area to back of property.

Leave in car via Walenta heading back through on to Taylor avenue. MOO

There is something way too pat about the car zipping up and down Taylor, IMO.

The murders were so meticulously planned and executed to overlook a Cam. Or mo?
A few have suggested an adrenaline induced screw up. But I don’t think a psychopathic control freak would expose himself like that.
And in the absence of other sightings it is impossible to really develop a confident timeline or scenario around the neighborhood from my perspective.
Could it be a decoy? The horror of a submissive partner/accomplice who may be dead now, too?
Maybe too it was a ride for the Frat field melee that got scared off and kept cruising around?
Weird how so much happened simultaneously in that little quadrant between the field and house.
I’ve forgotten when the call was made to LE for the melee.
All JMO

 

[sunshineray]

I agree the police are not going to make it public who they are looking at unless they have no choice. Obviously an arrest would be public or if they execute a search warrant that would most likely be public knowledge and they would be forced to make the suspect as a POI.

There is also the distinct possibility that they don't have any suspects yet.

Right or wrong the police have not disclosed any details to the public. I think it's kinda foolish to jump to any conclusions before they do.

The police may be doing a great job and nowhere near identifying the person responsible. They also might be close to an arrest as you suggested. I'm curious why you think they are close to an arrest?

I personally think all the signs point to the opposite. They are either very good at hiding what they have or they have nothing.

One thing we do know is that the crime occurred in a high traffic location. That could mean the task of clearing people not involved but we're inside the residence could be daunting and taking a lot of time and resources to complete.

I also think that how quickly the FBI became involved indicates that there was something at the crime scene that made them feel that they needed expertise that went beyond local or state resources. I'm very curious what triggered that.

I feel like I am the pessimist to your optimism, lol. I'm feeling like it's very possible that the killer is going to get away with it.

I think the FBI got involved because of complicated blood evidence and DNA. I also think the have better trained expertise in evaluating people that are suspect. The Chief of police in Moscow even said he's got a lot of young cops who've never seen or dealt with anything remotely like these murders. The FBI can help in many ways.

I think LE may have a good picture of what happened that night and may have their
suspect(s). But I also think it may take some time to gather enough evidence to prosecute. The arrest isn't the ultimate goal, the conviction and removal from society of the killer(s) is the goal. Before you arrest someone you better already have what you need to start criminal proceedings for trial or plea negotiations in place first. AJMO

 

[somequestions]

If you were a detective on this case, how would you begin to investigate it?

Maybe there is a common denominator in this case? If Xana and Maddie both worked at the restaurant, then maybe that is it. Could it be a disgruntled employee or a regular customer? Other than the usual people like neighbors and close friends and relatives, that is where I would start to investigate this case.

 

[tstephens1981]

It's interesting you say every Friday and Saturday night, and I agree. But I checked the day of the week and September 1, was a Thursday. People probably had to work the next day. I wouldn't like it either. I have sympathy for any police officer in a large city or a college town!!

FWIW that Thursday was the opening of Labor Day weekend (Labor Day was Mon. the 5th.) They did get rowdy pretty early in the night but IME the most popular Greek houses/groups were pretty dependable for pre-gaming. Not terribly unusual (tho annoying if you’re NOT partying) IMO.

 

[doublestop]

If you were a detective on this case, how would you begin to investigate it?

Maybe there is a common denominator in this case? If Xana and Maddie both worked at the restaurant, then maybe that is it. Could it be a disgruntled employee or a regular customer? Other than the usual people like neighbors and close friends and relatives, that is where I would start to investigate this case.

I think this is something that is often overlooked. Xana and Maddie were in the same sorority and worked at the same place. If the killer "knows" them through work, maybe it makes more sense that he went into both bedrooms and killed everyone in there.

 

[jcamh]

<modsnip> I think everyone is way over thinking it. This was a crime of passion focused on 1 target but the others were collateral damage. I think the perp was very close to the victim and snapped…..and that’s all I’m going to say about that.

I'm with you. I think people are trying to make this case WAY more complicated than it is.