ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 33

[Curiosa20]

Yes and what I really was hoping for is someone saw someone cleaning their car interior, vacuuming, wiping down, etc. if they weren't somewhere in the boonies in the night trying to do it.

No light in the boonies and a flashlight wouldn't be sufficient to see and clean. He'd want to make sure not a trace left behind even if changed clothes. He only had a couple hours until daylight.

<modsnip - off topic>

I don’t see that creeper cleaning the car. Ir had to be disposable in my mind.
Like others have said, dismantling it - chopping it- would be a few hours of work that only requires basic tools and a wench, which are all pretty standard in self sufficient living environments.
If it was the killer’s ride and taken out of Moscow, which seems plausible, it could easily be in an off the grid or isolated rural location. Or dumped in a canyon now under snow. Elk River, Hells Canyon. other nooks and crannies.
I don’t think it’s in town or in the little communities around Moscow. Everybody knows everybody's business, even if they don’t talk about it to outsiders. JMO

 

[Curiosa20]

Imo, moo, If it's the perp I think it is (actual identity unknown), he wore a black mask over his head when he did it last year.

Last year?

 

[Zinn]

There is something way too pat about the car zipping up and down Taylor, IMO.

The murders were so meticulously planned and executed to overlook a Cam. Or mo?
A few have suggested an adrenaline induced screw up. But I don’t think a psychopathic control freak would expose himself like that.
And in the absence of other sightings it is impossible to really develop a confident timeline or scenario around the neighborhood from my perspective.
Could it be a decoy? The horror of a submissive partner/accomplice who may be dead now, too?
Maybe too it was a ride for the Frat field melee that got scared off and kept cruising around?
Weird how so much happened simultaneously in that little quadrant between the field and house.
I’ve forgotten when the call was made to LE for the melee.
All JMO

I’m not a local but I recall reading early on that university policy restricted doorbell cams or other types of cams and associated wifi service (for cams) on university housing. A student said they were reconsidering this policy after the murders due to students’ safety concerns. Perhaps someone wanting to go undetected might consider Taylor relatively free of cameras as it borders the university? They would have to know gas stations have cams though. Maybe there was no getting around gas stations so other measures were taken such as concealing/removing plates, driving an unfamiliar car, wearing a hoodie or cap and mask. And choosing 3-4am to strike. This is assuming it was planned and the Elantra is linked through the perpetrator, neither of which may turn out to be accurate. JMO, as always.

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

You don’t know what evidence LE does or doesn’t have, neither do I, and neither does anyone on WS (unless they are actually involved in the investigation). We only know what information has been released by LE. LE is not obligated to release any information unless they decide to.

Summed up perfectly. The mother of one of the two girls murdered upstairs also recently stated in a news interview that she believed the killer was “methodical and in and out.” It must be a reflection of something else that she knows. A lack of physical evidence would reflect something like that. After all, common sense would dictate the longer you remain inside the kill zone, the more risk that you will leave something traceable. JMOHO

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I believe your instincts are on the right path. However, planning can take the stages of an anticipated tentative response should the victims trigger or cross a line. I believe this is a revenge type murder for having crossed confidentiality or something that made the suspect feel threatened.

I agree, a plan could start as a fantasy then get more detailed and real as time goes on and resentment brews. Planning could go on for months or years before acting on it.

Then a trigger or "the right time"/only chance comes along and then it's actioned upon.

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

I wonder if the killer is a Elliot Rodger type or school shooter type. An injustice collector who was jealous of the lifestyle of the victims. That is what was "targeted". Not E, X, M or K specifically.

He could have watched them party from the balcony side of the house and may have not known about the downstairs bedrooms.

I think attack was to angry/ hate filled to be a jealous ex or stalker.

Yes. If so, most likely as you laid it out. Someone watching them, within the direct line of sight (of their home). This would include a multitude of homes and apartments in that rental-dense neighborhood. JMOHO

 

[Curiosa20]

I’m not a local but I recall reading early on that university policy restricted doorbell cams or other types of cams and associated wifi service (for cams) on university housing. A student said they were reconsidering this policy after the murders due to students’ safety concerns. Perhaps someone wanting to go undetected might consider Taylor relatively free of cameras as it borders the university? They would have to know gas stations have cams though. Maybe there was no getting around gas stations so other measures were taken such as concealing/removing plates, driving an unfamiliar car, wearing a hoodie or cap and mask. And choosing 3-4am to strike. This is assuming it was planned and the Elantra is linked through the perpetrator, neither of which may turn out to be accurate. JMO, as always.

All good points. It’s a mind bender. eh.
The gas station is the kicker for me. As you say, disguised or concealed may have protected him but WTH with challenging car vs camera?
Unless he planned on ditching it and counted on local LE to take a while to review the tapes?
Or was he taunting LE? JMO

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

I think the FBI got involved because of complicated blood evidence and DNA. I also think the have better trained expertise in evaluating people that are suspect. The Chief of police in Moscow even said he's got a lot of young cops who've never seen or dealt with anything remotely like these murders. The FBI can help in many ways.

I think LE may have a good picture of what happened that night and may have their
suspect(s). But I also think it may take some time to gather enough evidence to prosecute. The arrest isn't the ultimate goal, the conviction and removal from society of the killer(s) is the goal. Before you arrest someone you better already have what you need to start criminal proceedings for trial or plea negotiations in place first. AJMO

Complicated evidence is an understatement in this investigation. How did the responding officers “secure and protect the integrity” of said crime scene? Of the house? Of the fragile evidence inside? If the evidence possibly outside of the home? Of the extra students (does anyone know how many additional people arrived at the home after the two remaining roomates called them?) mulling around the home and further contaminating the crime scene? This deck seems stacked against the investigators from the get-go. I hope they find the proverbial needle in the haystack, and expose the killer or killers who unleashed this travesty and subsequent terror upon these students and community. JMOO

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

All good points. It’s a mind bender. eh.
The gas station is the kicker for me. As you say, disguised or concealed may have protected him but WTH with challenging car vs camera?
Unless he planned on ditching it and counted on local LE to take a while to review the tapes?
Or was he taunting LE? JMO

Taunting…now that’s a good theory. He probably believes he is smarter than all of them combined. They are pursuing him every waking (and probably sleeping) moment. Relentlessly. Good things come to those who wait. JMOO

 

[Lalalacasbah]

How about this for food for thought. What if the Hyundai Elantra was a car that was serviced at a garage or a used car that was for sale at a dealership? Killer may have had access to the car and took extra precautions to make sure no blood was left inside the vehicle. He may feel the garage or dealership is isolated enough that there would be no camera evidence that ties the car to the business. Just thinking outside the box here.

Good thought, a car guy... Kaylee just bought her vehicle days before. Do we know what city/town Kaylee bought her car in? CDL as it wasn't Moscow.

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

That makes sense.
Could be a group that targeted them, possibly?
Not necessarily from their college orgs but possibly from other related activities, like games or extra curricular activities?

Speaking of games, was there not one on around the time of the mass murders?
I know zero about games so wondering if it was significant for it's size or for any other reason?

who was the opposing team and where were they from and did they bring supporters?

Games? Games like Dungeons and Dragons? If it went down that rabbit hole (D&D), we’d all be completely lost. I wonder how much info the Investigators and feds have squeezed out of Ethan’s Greek Fraternity. The one he and X spent time at on the eve of the homicides. They still have hours unaccounted for between these two. That’s puzzling. You’d think LE knows at this point, but maybe not. It’s one of the strangest to come down the pike in a longtime. JMOO

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I don’t see that creeper cleaning the car. Ir had to be disposable in my mind.
Like others have said, dismantling it - chopping it- would be a few hours of work that only requires basic tools and a wench, which are all pretty standard in self sufficient living environments.
If it was the killer’s ride and taken out of Moscow, which seems plausible, it could easily be in an off the grid or isolated rural location. Or dumped in a canyon now under snow. Elk River, Hells Canyon. other nooks and crannies.
I don’t think it’s in town or in the little communities around Moscow. Everybody knows everybody's business, even if they don’t talk about it to outsiders. JMO

Good points and I agree if this killer was a total loner, random/serial, not from the area and/or known or acquaintances to the victims.

People would notice if their buddy's white car suddenly disappeared. That would stand out to someone close to this person if they had a busy life, friends, places to be, etc. Unless a burner/stolen car.

And if car dismantled, would have to be done by someone who has the privacy (junkyard, garage), the tools, the time and knows cars as you mentioned otherwise a few hours could turn into 10 hrs of work.

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

How about this for food for thought. What if the Hyundai Elantra was a car that was serviced at a garage or a used car that was for sale at a dealership? Killer may have had access to the car and took extra precautions to make sure no blood was left inside the vehicle. He may feel the garage or dealership is isolated enough that there would be no camera evidence that ties the car to the business. Just thinking outside the box here.

Wow, great net-tossing and out-of-the box thinking here! Those are two of the best tried and true methods of catching a killer. Color outside of the lines, put yourself (shudders) in their shoes and try to get a handle on motive or mindset. That’s a great angle and could be a definite and genuine possibility. Do you perhaps know if there was a valid license plate at all on the Elantra? Or was it merely not visible in the videos? JMOO

 

[NCgardener]

Last year?

Whom was ?murdered? last year?

Last year?

I don't know how to multiquote, lol!

Yes, I think the couple that was attacked (while their cat sitter was in another room of the house) and stabbed numerous times is probably done by the same perp. Travis died from the attack.

Sandra Ladd was the year before that. All on the same day of the month as the Idaho students being killed

Mom of slain Oregon man Travis Juetten speaks out after cops eye link to University of Idaho murders

Travis Juetten, 26, died while trying to fight a masked intruder who also attacked his 24-year-old wife as they were sleeping in their Silverton home at 3 a.m, police said.

nypost.com

 

[MsBetsy]

Games? Games like Dungeons and Dragons? If it went down that rabbit hole (D&D), we’d all be completely lost. I wonder how much info the Investigators and feds have squeezed out of Ethan’s Greek Fraternity. The one he and X spent time at on the eve of the homicides. They still have hours unaccounted for between these two. That’s puzzling. You’d think LE knows at this point, but maybe not. It’s one of the strangest to come down the pike in a longtime. JMOO

I think OP meant sports? Wasn't there a football game on the 12th?

 

[kittythehare]

Games? Games like Dungeons and Dragons? If it went down that rabbit hole (D&D), we’d all be completely lost. I wonder how much info the Investigators and feds have squeezed out of Ethan’s Greek Fraternity. The one he and X spent time at on the eve of the homicides. They still have hours unaccounted for between these two. That’s puzzling. You’d think LE knows at this point, but maybe not. It’s one of the strangest to come down the pike in a longtime. JMOO

No actually.
Games like football or baseball or whatever ball games are called.

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

So, things may be different than when i was in school, but back then everything was very cliquish. You had little groups of people that basically were in their little universe and no one else was welcome. Myself, I was in fraternity and greek life people tended to hangout with others in the greek community. There were people that weren't in the greek community that resented them and honestly some greeks looked down on non members. Maybe someone resented the victims for being in that community. Maybe someone felt left out. Maybe someone felt disrespected. Jealousy and being shunned can be powerful motivators. MOO.

This is a very likely scenario. Perhaps it was Ethan and Xana who caught the killers attention? There are definitely people walking this earth who - (and possible the university grounds) when feeling humiliated, ostracized, unwelcome, etc, have the capability and capacity to unleash this type of Hell. JMOHO

 

[Zinn]

Regarding the newly released video of Maddie, Kaylee and John "Jack" Showalter on way to food truck: I'm hearing "Jack, what did you say to Adam?" and a MALE voice responding, "I told Adam everything". Does anyone else hear Jack being asked the question and Jack responding?

The responding voice sounded mid-register to me, like it could be a somewhat low woman’s voice or a somewhat high man’s voice. However, SG did not seem to object to how the conversation was described and he was familiar with Maddie’s voice. I did hear a sound more like “ack” (which can also be used as an exclamation). My hearing has seen better days though.

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

I don’t see that creeper cleaning the car. Ir had to be disposable in my mind.
Like others have said, dismantling it - chopping it- would be a few hours of work that only requires basic tools and a wench, which are all pretty standard in self sufficient living environments.
If it was the killer’s ride and taken out of Moscow, which seems plausible, it could easily be in an off the grid or isolated rural location. Or dumped in a canyon now under snow. Elk River, Hells Canyon. other nooks and crannies.
I don’t think it’s in town or in the little communities around Moscow. Everybody knows everybody's business, even if they don’t talk about it to outsiders. JMO

Or…drive it to a pre-planned isolated destination and drive it right into the ground in a hole dug (with the welcome assistance fun a backhoe Weeks prior. Anything and everything seems plausible. What about STORAGE units? They store cars and many of the units accept vehicles. What if it’s in a storage facility along any probable exit south? jMOHO

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

Good points and I agree if this killer was a total loner, random/serial, not from the area and/or known or acquaintances to the victims.

People would notice if their buddy's white car suddenly disappeared. That would stand out to someone close to this person if they had a busy life, friends, places to be, etc. Unless a burner/stolen car.

And if car dismantled, would have to be done by someone who has the privacy (junkyard, garage), the tools, the time and knows cars as you mentioned otherwise a few hours could turn into 10 hrs of work.

All great points!