ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 33

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re blood trails/footprints on exit or any other evidence which may have been dropped as the perp left

Does anybody who watched a lot of news footage recall seeing a finger tip search of the back yard area before the snow fell? I always though those autumn leaves could obscure a multitude of sins.
Every day after the murders, there seemed to be media there from one organisation or several.

by fingertip search I just mean the typical methods where LEO or forensics staff fan out across defined areas and cover every inch. Here's an example of one from msm source. ( Typing police carry out finger tip search into google will bring up other variations Police fingertip search hi-res stock photography and images - Alamy )
View attachment 388662

I’ve not seen any such fingertip search of the yard
But, this pic says is of a school shooting- my guess is they are looking for shell casings so the timing of each shot can be recreated. In that thick grass they may be tough to find if ejected with force.
I’m not familiar with the Penilee School shooting- Glasgow. I’ll have to read on it.

Edit: Wow, a gang attack on a Primary School due to feuding families? bizarre

JMO
 
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I’ve not seen any such fingertip search of the yard
But, this pic says is of a school shooting- my guess is they are looking for shell casings so the timing of each shot can be recreated. In that thick grass they may be tough to find if ejected with force.
I’m not familiar with the Penilee School shooting- Glasgow. I’ll have to read on it.

JMO

Yes me neither - didn't see any.

TBH it's nothing to do with shootings - shootings are very rare over here - this kind of ground search is very common regardless of the weapon used - regardless of whether the finger tip search is for an item they expect to find ( eg a casing) I just chose a random image of a finger tip search which everybody would recognise as a finger tip search

maybe try this link instead - it will take you to hundreds of photo examples, different crimes, crime scenes, body deposit sites, perp routes etc
 
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Yes me neither - didn't see any.

TBH it's nothing to do with shootings - shootings are very rare over here - this kind of ground search is very common regardless of the weapon used - regardless of whether the finger tip search is for an item they expect to find ( eg a casing) I just chose a random image of a finger tip search which everybody would recognise as a finger tip search

maybe try this link instead - it will take you to hundreds of photo examples, different crimes, crime scenes, body deposit sites, perp routes etc

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a fingertip search like those shown.
There has to be something between trampling all over the yard without a thought on one end and vacuuming it all up to analyze on the other. Fingertip search may be the doable compromise.
Investigation experience arrives after all the reactions- roommates, friends, then first responders cops and emergency medical and probably the curious out of cops, then coroner and finally the experienced forensic team. That is a lot of feet in and out of doorways before anyone thought to put on booties and preserve evidence

JMO
 
You know, college games are usually supported by die hard fans.
UC Davis is about 14 hours drive away, so I doubt many went from there.
The game was covered by ESPN.
I searched for Heroes Day to see what that’s about but didn’t find anything.
Thanks so much for checking that out. I am clueless.( Blocked FIFA on Twitter so world cup wouldn't disturb me... That bad.)

I had sense it was a big party type few days running through weekend so wondered if strangers could easily have gone unnoticed.
 
Games? Games like Dungeons and Dragons? If it went down that rabbit hole (D&D), we’d all be completely lost. I wonder how much info the Investigators and feds have squeezed out of Ethan’s Greek Fraternity. The one he and X spent time at on the eve of the homicides. They still have hours unaccounted for between these two. That’s puzzling. You’d think LE knows at this point, but maybe not. It’s one of the strangest to come down the pike in a longtime. JMOO
I think they are meaning games like sports teams.
There are rivals between college football teams, but even among the largest rivals murder isn’t the fallout. I can’t think of any such murder from college students due to team rivals.

JMO
 
That’s really all the profile that you need: a violent, sadistic, psychopath. In everyday life, this person probably has a ‘short fuse’ and is probably known to ‘blow up’ periodically to neighbors, acquaintances, co-workers and family.

The danger in LE releasing a profile so to speak, is that a good defense attorney can use that purported profile against prosecution in a trial if the profile isn’t spot on.

I am not seeing the work of a hot head
A short fuse doesn’t plan ahead, they aren’t meticulous, they react and don’t think of the evidence they leave behind.
This was planned

JMO
 
Would a TV network have the equipment to double check what is being said on the video before releasing it to the public?
Yes, I think a TV network who deals in quality sound would be able to enhance the audio and determine what was said.
There are three voices
The male speaks a sentence before the female voices begin.
What the TV Network does with that information- who knows.
Based on the interview with SG it sounds like the families have had this video for some time, so it is just new news to us.
It be enhanced and on someone’s channel today I expect.

JMO
 
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I've been thinking about bloody footprints as someone mentioned upthread... He had to leave footprints. It would be impossible not to, unless he smeared his own footprints behind him before leaving.

Douglas Garland wore a hazmat suit, planned to the tilt - didn't leave a spot of DNA or one hair but he still left bloody footprints even tried mopping IIRC.

Even if booties were used, with that much blood I'd think possible an impression from weight bearing (foot or shoe)... I'm not sure there's a way to NOT leave a trail unless he cleaned his shoes/feet before leaving somehow (water/sink/hose).

I recently hand dyed fabric as organized and careful as I was - I still made more a mess than expected with drips, spills, stains, etc. I'm sure this guy left DNA or something trace behind, seems impossible not to!

Let’s say they did find some footprints of some kind across the floor and coming out of the house. How would those be collected and protected from the door of the house on the porch and into the yard and across the yard?
Swabs of trace?
Photograph images?
Evidently whatever was collected has been done, and no more collection is expected as the path of travel is not marked off in any way. It has basically gone back to nature.

As I’ve not seen anything resembling a focus in the yard, I’m thinking there must not have been anything obvious?? No markers with numbers as is typical
Maybe I missed it? I agree with you that it would seem likely, but I just didn’t see anyone report that such evidence was or had been collected.

JMO
 
Someone could have been angry at the house and in turn the kids that lived there and the ones that visited, non-distinguishable from one another. The house represented a lifestyle and the people that lived it could definitely have become a target, collectively. What makes a hateful person advance to physical violence is a very subjective and therefore a relative thing...especially if that person has mental illness. I think killing 4 young people in the night, in their beds with a knife screams of some kind of illness of the mind. AJMO
Or rage. IMO Perhaps the four roommates were unintentionally complicit in something and I dont mean crime. What if all four of them knew something about a student, a previous roommate, a business or a neighbor and it was accidentally revealed. And what if whatever was revealed led to a tremendous loss, somebody got fired, someone was arrested, someone got expelled, somebody cheated, someone got kicked out of school or lost their scholarship, someone got in trouble, someone’s heart was broken, somebody was shamefully embarrassed or humiliated, someone was extremely disrespected in some way or lost their status or reputation.There was a serious loss of some type and this was the resultant consequence. I’m not victim blaming, I am just trying to make sense of the sequence of events that night that might have set someone over the edge.
 
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I think they are meaning games like sports teams.
There are rivals between college football teams, but even among the largest rivals murder isn’t the fallout. I can’t think of any such murder from college students due to team rivals.

JMO
That is what I meant but my question was around whether the games would have brought an influx of strangers to town.
 
If you were a detective on this case, how would you begin to investigate it?

Maybe there is a common denominator in this case? If Xana and Maddie both worked at the restaurant, then maybe that is it. Could it be a disgruntled employee or a regular customer? Other than the usual people like neighbors and close friends and relatives, that is where I would start to investigate this case.
Yes. The MadGreek restaurant.Xanas and Maddies Sorority. The Corner Club. Ethan’s Fraternity. Search every place where the roommates went in pairs.
 
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The calls that KG made to her ex-bf, wonder if the dog was acting funny, sensing the someone was outside, and she was calling to a) see if it was him (trying to scare her?) or b) wanting him to come over because she was scared? Might also have been that innate "Spidey sense" for lack of a better word, that some have when they are being watched? She did have the stalker, so maybe she thought the dog's reaction might have been to that? Would also explain her wanting Maddie to stay in her room with her. I keep thinking the killer was watching from behind the house, waited until the upstairs lights went out and made his way in through the sliding glass door.

Also wondering if the killer was mad (would have to be enraged for some reason?) that KG was leaving or perhaps had mentioned someone was creeping her out, and possibly mad at roommates for supporting KG's decision to leave and head for Texas?

Also if victims were stabbed in bed, possiblity that killer's non-dominant hand might have left a print, gloved or not, as support on the bed while he held the knife in his other hand? At least that might narrow killer down to left or right-handed plus approximate hand size. Not much, but maybe useful to exclude subjects / narrow the field a bit. Same for shoe prints, wearing booties or not, unless so much foot traffic before the scene was secured messed up evidence. General show size, i.e. 11-12 vs say 8-10, could say a bit about the likely stature if the suspect. Length of stride, etc.

Maybe she had more than one stalker? One harmless, maybe unknowingly masking one pure evil? Could killer have known there was another stalker, one that might be a useful patsy? Sounds crazy, but so much doesn't make sense with this case.

Normally would guess a killer would bug out after his crime, but after RA in Delphi, going on with work and life as if nothing had happened, that town must be terrified.

All moo, as I can't sleep, wondering what must have gone on. Those poor kids.
 
Complicated evidence is an understatement in this investigation. How did the responding officers “secure and protect the integrity” of said crime scene? Of the house? Of the fragile evidence inside? If the evidence possibly outside of the home? Of the extra students (does anyone know how many additional people arrived at the home after the two remaining roomates called them?) mulling around the home and further contaminating the crime scene? This deck seems stacked against the investigators from the get-go. I hope they find the proverbial needle in the haystack, and expose the killer or killers who unleashed this travesty and subsequent terror upon these students and community. JMOO
The evidence collection may not have been that complicated. IMO. From what I understand the house is large and the rooms are spread out. Roommates were found in the bedrooms-maybe it wasn’t as bad as stated.
 
I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a fingertip search like those shown.
There has to be something between trampling all over the yard without a thought on one end and vacuuming it all up to analyze on the other. Fingertip search may be the doable compromise.
Investigation experience arrives after all the reactions- roommates, friends, then first responders cops and emergency medical and probably the curious out of cops, then coroner and finally the experienced forensic team. That is a lot of feet in and out of doorways before anyone thought to put on booties and preserve evidence

JMO


I didn't start paying attention to the case until later and wasn't around for the first threads on the case at WS so I assumed I may have missed a methodical ground search of the back yard.

I appreciate you've not personally seen one before but a force such as, for example, NYPD must do routinely something similar even if ISP don't? ( will go have a look and edit it in if I find an example of that)

btw ISP staff were on the ground from the 14th because I just looked for an LEO wearing one of their branded jackets in the photos which cujenna collected together Google Photos
 
The calls that KG made to her ex-bf, wonder if the dog was acting funny, sensing the someone was outside, and she was calling to a) see if it was him (trying to scare her?) or b) wanting him to come over because she was scared? Might also have been that innate "Spidey sense" for lack of a better word, that some have when they are being watched? She did have the stalker, so maybe she thought the dog's reaction might have been to that? Would also explain her wanting Maddie to stay in her room with her. I keep thinking the killer was watching from behind the house, waited until the upstairs lights went out and made his way in through the sliding glass door.

Also wondering if the killer was mad (would have to be enraged for some reason?) that KG was leaving or perhaps had mentioned someone was creeping her out, and possibly mad at roommates for supporting KG's decision to leave and head for Texas?

Also if victims were stabbed in bed, possiblity that killer's non-dominant hand might have left a print, gloved or not, as support on the bed while he held the knife in his other hand? At least that might narrow killer down to left or right-handed plus approximate hand size. Not much, but maybe useful to exclude subjects / narrow the field a bit. Same for shoe prints, wearing booties or not, unless so much foot traffic before the scene was secured messed up evidence. General show size, i.e. 11-12 vs say 8-10, could say a bit about the likely stature if the suspect. Length of stride, etc.

Maybe she had more than one stalker? One harmless, maybe unknowingly masking one pure evil? Could killer have known there was another stalker, one that might be a useful patsy? Sounds crazy, but so much doesn't make sense with this case.

Normally would guess a killer would bug out after his crime, but after RA in Delphi, going on with work and life as if nothing had happened, that town must be terrified.

All moo, as I can't sleep, wondering what must have gone on. Those poor kids.
Sort of like the handprint left on the window?
 
Is it possible that the apartment was bugged?
It entered my mind when I saw that there were five females living in that rental property.
My thought of ‘bugged’ was cameras inside that are unknown to the renters, observed by a creepy contractor or owner of the property.
There could also be audio footage
Creepy stuff of nightmares, one sick perv, but not fiction

This is one such case in Florida where a landlord was allegedly filming female tenants.

JMO
 
Good points and I agree if this killer was a total loner, random/serial, not from the area and/or known or acquaintances to the victims.

People would notice if their buddy's white car suddenly disappeared. That would stand out to someone close to this person if they had a busy life, friends, places to be, etc. Unless a burner/stolen car.

And if car dismantled, would have to be done by someone who has the privacy (junkyard, garage), the tools, the time and knows cars as you mentioned otherwise a few hours could turn into 10 hrs of work.
Someone who wouldn’t be noticed period.
 
When will LE bite the bullet and release the DNA profile? I can see ego drawing this out for decades.
 
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