ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 33

[CityKid]

Thanks! Bearing in mind that I'm old, and don't understand this Instagram stuff, do people have control over who follows them or is it pretty much a semi-anonymous free for all? i.e. can anyone follow anyone, whether they know them or not? Where I'm going is this something that a stalker would use, perhaps in hopes of getting some kind of acknowledgement? Do users go through and prune their lists, or once it's beyond a few hundred do they just give up? Do some people freak out if they are pruned or blocked or whatever it is people do with followers they don't want? Also is the general consensus that a follower (past or present) had a strong likelihood of being the killer?

Would certainly whittle down the suspect pool, and am guessing that most of all social media companies (and Apple or Google for phones?) are cooperating.

Life seemed simpler when all we had were rotary phones.

All moo

I have IG. I have been stalked (TRO, police reports, the whole nine yards). My IG is private. If you happened to guess my IG name, which is not my real name, you would only be able to see my avatar image (which is a pet) and not see anything I've posted. If you're my friend and I gave you my IG handle, you could ask to follow me and I could either agree or not. If you're a creep who figured out my IG handle and asked to follow me, I would delete the request and block you so you couldn't follow me. Bottom line: My IG is like a private photo album I share with friends, which is easy to set up if you care to do so. Also, if you have your IG open, like KG did, you can remove folks whom you don't want to see your feed. You can follow someone with an open IG without officially becoming a follower; just go to their page and scroll the images. That means that someone could be following your page and seeing everything you post without appearing on your list of followers or leaving any data on your feed that would let you know they were there (unless they "like" a post or comment on it).

 

[AngTxGal]

Yes and what I really was hoping for is someone saw someone cleaning their car interior, vacuuming, wiping down, etc. if they weren't somewhere in the boonies in the night trying to do it.

No light in the boonies and a flashlight wouldn't be sufficient to see and clean. He'd want to make sure not a trace left behind even if changed clothes. He only had a couple hours until daylight.

<modsnip - off topic>

If you weren’t sure if you had blood evidence, it wasn’t clearly visible, I would pay the $50 to have your car washed and detailed with an oil change.
This way my fingerprints aren’t the only ones in the car, and any of mine are covered by the fingerprints of others, wipe clothes, many moving around inside and out.

I don’t know what this would get rid of, I do know there are places things can hide- like dry cereal and fish crackers get lodged in the space where the seatbelt collapses. If you have ever traveled with little kids you figure out all the places that are tough to clean.

JMO

 

[CityKid]

Problem is- he didn’t know he had those nine hours.
He would have acted as if he had only two or three. So what did he do?

MOO and pure speculation: What if the killer(s) knew they had nine hours? If they knew a 911 call wouldn't come in till much later?

 

[RetiredEE]

Here's a link from the NYP where you can see the Jack in the Box bag with Xana's name on it (scroll down). No date or time or receipt is visible. I attached a screen grab here as well.

Brutal killings of University of Idaho students were ‘personal,’ autopsies showed

The autopsies performed on the four University of Idaho students who were butchered showed that the killings were “personal” — as the father of one of the victims suggested that his daughter …

nypost.com

View attachment 388674

According to the official site, the Moscow JITB is open from 6am Friday straight through to midnight Sunday. I'm sure the police know when the order was placed, and probably picked up (delivery or in person?). Possibly filled in some timeline blanks.

Order Online | Jack in the Box
nearest: 310 NE Stadium Way, Pullman, Washington 99163
11 miles from 2212 King, Moscow ID

Nothing remarkable, just filling in data

 

[AngTxGal]

Imvho, the male voices in the beginning were off camera from a different group of individuals. As for the voice that has been alternately attributed to a low pitched female or high pitched male, I defer to SG. He knows MM's voice and believes it to be hers. That's good enough for me. I originally thought it was male but after looping it many times, it sounds more female to me.

I semi watched and woke up to GHI last night but was half asleep, he had enhanced the audio and was playing it while the chat was guessing what was being said.
He focuses in on the male voice at the end of the show.
I dont’ see other people near them, nor do I hear other voices. These three are not talking at the same time and the volume seems related to the distance from the camera.

Last night I found the location, they are walking south on Main on the east side of the road. In front of what was Calamity Janes shown on Google Earth, headed toward Lodgepole. You can see the Moscow Water Works in the still image- it is the A frame high pitch roof in the top left.

I just listened again, this is what it sounds like to me.
Male “We’re gonna ditch those guys.”
Kaylee “MADS, what did you say to ADAM!?”
Maddee “I, I told Adam everything.”

 

[Emerald1328]

About the criticism of seasoned professionals offering their insight into the psychopathic murderer, I don’t agree that they are starting rumors or innuendo.
I would argue instead that the absence of some kind of Profile would be warranted at this stage.
What could possibly cause more fear? Folks young and old are looking over their shoulders, wondering if that guy or that guy or that woman could be the Offender or accomplice.

This was the rational for not releasing a Profile 2 weeks after the murders, interview with Snell 11/27:
"Obviously, you've got somebody that's on the loose right now. There's a lot of fear with the public based on what you guys have been able to collect. And you have profilers on the team, BAU unit is here, why not go ahead and release that profile?" Jones asked.

The Idaho police communications director answered: "It will potentially put more fear, more suspicion on a wide variety of people versus if we use that to really refine where we're at in our investigation. I think that will be more pertinent."

He added: "And so if we just provide information to the public, I just don't think that that's going to be a wise choice."

Idaho Student murders update: Police say why key details are being withheld from the public

Authorities are withholding key details from the public as they continue to investigate the murders of four University of Idaho students, including information about a suspect profile.

www.foxnews.com

IMO the biggest detriment to LE releasing the BAU’s profile is that people will disregard calling in tips on someone who doesn’t fit the profile. Profiles are not an exact science and they could be wrong. LE doesn’t want to limit who they get tips on, because they may very well be the killer and the tip may be the thing that leads them to the perp.

 

[cottonweaver]

IMO the biggest detriment to LE releasing the BAU’s profile is that people will disregard calling in tips on someone who doesn’t fit the profile. Profiles are not an exact science and they could be wrong. LE doesn’t want to limit who they get tips on, because they may very well be the killer and the tip may be the thing that leads them to the perp.

agreed and definitely not science

also:

Criminal profiling doesn’t work. TV shows should maybe stop celebrating it.

Psychologists cannot, it turns out, catch criminals with the power of their minds.

www.vox.com

The perils of profiling for the media

Forensic psychologists speak out on the lessons learned from the Washington-area sniper case.

www.apa.org

 

[SMK777]

Yes I’m pretty sure the girl who answered the door on the Sept 1 disturbing the peace call to 911 was one of the survivors.

The general consensus is that it was B.

 

[CityKid]

I don’t think any of the housemates were there, doesn’t someone have to ring Maddie to get the house under control, you wouldn’t ring someone who is already at the house to tell them to quiet the house down.

I can totally imagine Maddie hiding in her room upstairs and pretending not to be there.

 

[AngTxGal]

Or rage. IMO Perhaps the four roommates were unintentionally complicit in something and I dont mean crime. What if all four of them knew something about a student, a previous roommate, a business or a neighbor and it was accidentally revealed. And what if whatever was revealed led to a tremendous loss, somebody got fired, someone was arrested, someone got expelled, somebody cheated, someone got kicked out of school or lost their scholarship, someone got in trouble, someone’s heart was broken, somebody was shamefully embarrassed or humiliated, someone was extremely disrespected in some way or lost their status or reputation.There was a serious loss of some type and this was the resultant consequence. I’m not victim blaming, I am just trying to make sense of the sequence of events that night that might have set someone over the edge.

If it is rage from an event that evening then it wasn’t pre planNed it was reactionary.
How did a person working on rage get in and out of that house without leaving any obvious evidence back to them?
I’m not thinking some early 20’s would consider the reality of the consequences enough to clean up after themselves if they were driven by reaction and rage.

This to me seems well planned

JMO

 

[AngTxGal]

The general consensus is that it was B.

Yes I recognized her but did not want to put out her name so easily.

JMO

 

[SMK777]

Yes I recognized her but did not want to put out her name so easily.

JMO

I perhaps should not have, either.

 

[jshhanson]

! Nice catch, my bad! No coffee

The real unknown (for me) is how many survive.....those <modsnip> weren't built to last. I hear 10 years, 150k, that probably takes out half of them. And then there is the very real question of whether Idaho bought at the rate of the rest of the country....I see F-150s doing better there. Ten years ago Korean sedans were not exactly the top of mind purchase for snowy mountainous states. Then again, for all I know white is the most popular color by 50 percent, not ten.

LE indicated in one of their interviews that there were 22,000 vehicles of that type registered in Idaho and Washington and were looking for tips from the public to help narrow down the ones they would need to investigate further.

 

[Emerald1328]

Yes, I think a TV network who deals in quality sound would be able to enhance the audio and determine what was said.
There are three voices
The male speaks a sentence before the female voices begin.
What the TV Network does with that information- who knows.
Based on the interview with SG it sounds like the families have had this video for some time, so it is just new news to us.
It be enhanced and on someone’s channel today I expect.

JMO

I am assuming the FBI has at least as good, but likely better, technology than a radio station to enhance audio.

 

[AngTxGal]

I perhaps should not have, either.

I don’t know, lol
So who were the guys? That would tell us who possibly could have stayed over on the night of Nov 12-13 with the two survivors.
We seem to have assumed they were alone, they may not have been.
I’m not insinuating any of them are sus, but they would be witnesses and could be the ones who spoke to the 911 dispatcher.

JMO

 

[AngTxGal]

I am assuming the FBI has at least as good, but likely better, technology than a radio station to enhance audio.

Of course, but we won’t get to hear that one.
It sounds like three different voices, and they get louder as they move closer to the camera/mic
They are a block to the west of hwy 95 so that is the road noise.
It doesn’t seem related to the events that followed, they aren’t upset. It does show the guy was someone they were comfortable with, he walked with them from the Corner Club.

JMO

 

[SMK777]

I don’t know, lol
So who were the guys? That would tell us who possibly could have stayed over on the night of Nov 12-13 with the two survivors.
We seem to have assumed they were alone, they may not have been.

JMO

Very good observation.

 

[Emerald1328]

footprints into the yard and across the yard?

muddy or bloody partial prints on dry leaves ( it hadn't snowed overnight, didn't snow for a few days longer after the crimes)
footprints in mud or earth ( cast in situ with wax and then with that dental rock material, can also be taken from snow prints)

They did have a look at the yard, within the taped-off area and went into the undergrowth under the trees but it wasn't a search search. A few LEO walked what they thought might have been a route out back. I recall seeing it on US TV later.

19th they sent the woman with the K9 through. ( I assume blood only)

Also if you have a creeper, voyeur type killer - somebody you suspect might have watched the housemates over a period of time from the dark wooded yard at the back - you'd want to look for any evidence left from him being at a favourite peeping spot. ( maybe they already did this)

A dog was actually sent out the day after the murders, the 14th. They may have had another dog on the 19th too though.

“Investigators descended on the home, 1122 King Road, and taped off the area, which is near Greek Row. On Monday, Latah County Prosecutor Bill Thompson arrived to tour the scene. Officers spread out to search garbage cans and by early afternoon a search and rescue truck brought a dog to search the hill above the home.”

Details remain unclear in apparent attack that killed 4 University of Idaho students

MOSCOW, Idaho – Police investigators swarmed a home near the University of Idaho Monday in the aftermath of an apparent attack that left four students dead.

www.spokesman.com

 

[CityKid]

I don’t know, lol
So who were the guys? That would tell us who possibly could have stayed over on the night of Nov 12-13 with the two survivors.
We seem to have assumed they were alone, they may not have been.

JMO

MOO I think it's reasonable to speculate that they were not alone. That's my speculation, anyway!

 

[shane13]

agreed and definitely not science

also:

Criminal profiling doesn’t work. TV shows should maybe stop celebrating it.

Psychologists cannot, it turns out, catch criminals with the power of their minds.

www.vox.com

The perils of profiling for the media

Forensic psychologists speak out on the lessons learned from the Washington-area sniper case.

www.apa.org

Thank you for the links.

I always knew profiling was dubious at best. Some of us take everything from MSM with a huge grain of salt if you know what I mean.
From one of your links: "They’re not much better than random people off the street! A 2007 meta analysis by criminologists Brent Snook, Joseph Eastwood, Paul Gendreau, Claire Goggin, and Richard Cullen compared four studies where self-described criminal profilers were tasked with analyzing crime scene data and coming up with a profile, and compared their predictions to other groups like normal detectives or students.

They find that profilers do only slightly better than random people at predicting traits of offenders. “We contend that, in any field, an ‘expert’ should decisively outperform nonexperts (ie lay persons),” the authors write. They didn’t find that. They conclude that profiling is a “pseudoscientific technique,” of limited if any value to investigators.

From another study: “Is offender profiling possible?” Alison and his co-author Andreas Mokros conclude, basically, “No.”

BBM
Summarized here now by me: "...They conclude that profiling is a “pseudoscientific technique,” of limited if any value to investigators. [And another study article:] is offender profiling possible?”: [Conclusion:] “No.”

Further summary by me OF PROFILING FROM ARTICLES: NOT SCIENTIFIC AND NOT EVEN POSSIBLE