ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 33

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Sister Golden Hair said:
Nor to me, either. IMO sounds like total college drama. IMO I think it's important to remember that we're looking at this from after the murders and seeing only from that perspective, but M & K didn't know they were going to be stabbed to death later. IMO they were totally normal, albeit a little tipsy, at the grub truck. So IMO I think it's key to trip back to being 21, in college, having social and romantic dramas, all of which are of utmost importance until they aren't, and seeing it through that lens. JMO of course, but I can riff a bunch of different scenarios about the 'everything', and none of it in the least bit nefarious.
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MOO, I've not seen anything about their lives that strike me as abnormal or implicitly nefarious. Of course, all these seemingly innocent connections and interactions should be examined by LE, but none of what the public has been made aware of seems at all indicative of anything significant.

I do wonder if, even with all the additional info they have, LE is having the same problem? I wonder if every relationship and interaction they investigate is providing nothing to indicate a "personal" motive for the murders??
 
BlueTunes said:
JMO

Makes sense. The 2 that had defensive wounds may have been the second victim attacked per room. Possibly waking up from hearing the person next to them being stabbed. That would mean 1 defensive wound victim in X&E room and 1 in K&M room.
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I was thinking the same thing. Assuming there was no accomplice and no other weapon or means of restraint (the simplest scenario), it would have been impossible to kill 2 people in the same bed without 1 putting up some fight. It's even hard to believe that he was able to pull this off without at least one of the victims (from either of the 2 beds) getting away. The perp must have been unusually strong, skilled with the knife and fast.
 
Trino said:
And, where were they sold compared to where they were mostly used and are located now.
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No idea and no way to know without doing a seach of the registrations in all states. I was just giving an idea of how many of those cars could be out there now. Without knowing the state where it's registered and/or ruling out states where it isn't (maybe grainy pic of plate?) it will basically take amazing luck/coincidence to locate the car. Basically, it will need to be pretty local and/or they get a tip
 
The OG said:
Kaylee: "(Mads?) What did you say to Adam?!?"
Maddie: "I, I told him I knew everything."

What bothers me about this is the audio doesn't match the demeanor of the two ladies. The voice attributed to Kaylee sounds drunk and amped up. Maddie sounds drunk as well, but more matter-of-fact. On the grub truck video immediately afterward, Maddie is the hyped up one, almost belligerent. Kaylee is just trying to get her food.
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Agree. I thought it sounded like a voice over. i agree that the body language in the short video, the walking, etc does not seem to go with the words. They don’t seem to turn their heads to look at each other or use their hands to match the words. And the Kaylee voice especially sounds too close and stilted in its odd rhythm.
 
CityKid said:
Another thing I noticed: These young adults, who knew they were stalling to protect their young White Claw aficionado co-guests, were as cool as cucumbers with multiple police confronting them. Lied straight to their faces. Sort of chilling.
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It would be chilling to me too, but I’ve been at a party where that very thing happened. I was 17 or 18, and we were young and stupid and there was pot. And an older guy in his early twenties went to the door cool as a cucumber, apologized that the music was loud. We turned the music down. I suppose there was no probable cause for the cops to come inside, it was simply loud music.

But… No way the cops could not smell the pot smoke coming out of the front door, It was thick in there. The cops didn’t want to fool with it and the guy apologizing gave them an excuse to blow it off. So they left.

I think this was similar, the cops just wanted the music turned down so they could get on their way. The boys did not look stumbling drunk, and the girl who answered the door was ok.

JMO
 
I agree the audio doesn't really match their body language. Could the audio be from a moment when they were out of frame and it was "pasted" on to the video?
 
AngTxGal said:
It would be chilling to me too, but I’ve been at a party where that very thing happened. I was 17 or 18, and we were young and stupid and there was pot. And an older guy in his early twenties went to the door cool as a cucumber, apologized that the music was loud. We turned the music down. I suppose there was no probable cause for the cops to come inside, it was simply loud music.

But… No way the cops could not smell the pot smoke coming out of the front door, It was thick in there. The cops didn’t want to fool with it and the guy apologizing gave them an excuse to blow it off. So they left.

I think this was similar, the cops just wanted the music turned down so they could get on their way. The boys did not look stumbling drunk, and the girl who answered the door was ok.

JMO
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It's pretty normal to lie to cops when you're engaging in illegal activity. MOO
 
Marie A said:
Couldn’t agree more!!!


And will add my own speculation all strictly IMHO:
This perp targeted this particular house or maybe this house within a group of similar nearby houses he originally was considering.
He went there strictly to murder innocents with a big knife.
It was a premeditated, preplanned crime and he came prepared to kill and went to great pre-planning lengths in order to not leave his DNA behind.
He didn’t know before or care about the number of victims he would leave in his wake.
He did NOT target a specific person.
All he knew was that a bunch of girls lived in this house. This is DAHMER in the Chi O house all over again but in a much more sophisticated way.
This is a SAVAGE, VICIOUS murderer with a high IQ.
That is what is so horrifyingly chilling about this.
This is why the only clue is a cheap, plentiful car that had doctored license plates.
THE CAR IS THE BIGGEST CLUE AND THE ONLY PUBLIC CLUE as to who the perp is.
Detectives are desperate to find this “needle in a haystack” car because it’s all they have at this point.
I don’t think this perp left a digital footprint. I don’t think he knew the names of his victims or saw their social media prior to this killing rampage.
Well-seasoned and highly intelligent police detectives and FBI agents are stumped.
THIS is the stuff of horror movies.
He’s anonymous and could strike ANYWHERE next and maybe get away with it again.
He did his homework and did it really well.
This is an older guy 30-50 who scoped out this target house at some point prior to this crime.
He‘s not local and likely was never local- he visited & stayed with a friend or relative in the area once- maybe years ago. Or he simply picked a college LIKE DAHMER and then did his homework. My best guess is that his regular residence is 4 hours or more away from Moscow, Idaho.
I credit this killer with being smart enough to NOT have local ties. He may have the monetary means to be more transient like Dahmer.
I also think this guy admires Dahmer, has studied Dahmer and is narcissistic enough to believe he’s better than Dahmer and God forbid maybe he is.
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It is also my personal opinion that this is the closest to what occurred. I do disagree with the high IQ though, I don’t think he was dumb far from it but I also don’t think he was above average intelligence. I think he was so obsessed and fantasied the attack for so long that he was able to carry it out with little error (I’m talking big obvious errors that would’ve led to him being caught by now - I do think he left evidence but potentially they don’t have his DNA on file OR it’s contaminated with the fact that it was a busy party house with lots coming and going). Things definitely would’ve gone ‘wrong’ for him, and I think one of the main things where he has lost control of his very thought out fantasy is the car. IMO the perp in the owner or occupant of the Hyundai Elantra and he either didn’t think there was CCTV where it was seen (IF that’s how the police got the tip off in the first place), he thought he was being inconspicuous in his ‘stalking’ in the lead up but he actually wasn’t as stealth as he thought , and/or he made a wrong turn while full of adrenaline after the murders and drove past a petrol station. IMO I do think he would’ve thought and planned it out enough to avoid main roads and definitely businesses such as petrol stations that have high security 24/7.
 
Here’s another thought, as related to the “targeted” aspect: I know it was said one of the victims possibly had worse/more wounds, and I had mentioned I wonder if one of them was “covered up,” potentially indicating the killer knew the victim.

But another thought along these lines, is maybe there were not only more wounds, which could be attributed to a more intense struggle, but maybe it’s not so much the number of wounds, but the type of wounds, meaning, maybe there was some type of defacement, injuries to the face. Gosh I hate to type all this, but maybe not only overkill, but overkill in the sense of disfigurement, perhaps post-mortem.

What throws me off a lot in this case is the lack of SA, which was my first thought as to motive.

For reference, what serial killers that stabbed their victims without sexually abusing them?
 
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LizWords said:
It's pretty normal to lie to cops when you're engaging in illegal activity. MOO
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These kids were underage and the cops knew it. It wasn’t even a good lie, but it wasn’t a bank heist either.
Likely the cops had been there before.
Both parties were finding a compromise so it didn’t have to become serious.
That is typical for college towns

JMO
 
AngTxGal said:
It would be chilling to me too, but I’ve been at a party where that very thing happened. I was 17 or 18, and we were young and stupid and there was pot. And an older guy in his early twenties went to the door cool as a cucumber, apologized that the music was loud. We turned the music down. I suppose there was no probable cause for the cops to come inside, it was simply loud music.

But… No way the cops could not smell the pot smoke coming out of the front door, It was thick in there. The cops didn’t want to fool with it and the guy apologizing gave them an excuse to blow it off. So they left.

I think this was similar, the cops just wanted the music turned down so they could get on their way. The boys did not look stumbling drunk, and the girl who answered the door was ok.

JMO
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I don't doubt it happens. I was intrigued by threatening to get the national chapter of Sigma Chi got them to cooperate, or at least get someone over 21 to the phone, more quickly.
 
margarita25 said:
Here’s another thought, as related to the “targeted” aspect: I know it was said one of the victims possibly had worse/more wounds, and I had mentioned I wonder if one of them was “covered up,” potentially indicating the killer knew the victim.

But another thought along these lines, is maybe there were not only more wounds, which could be attributed to a more intense struggle, but maybe it’s not the number of wounds, but the type of wounds, meaning, maybe there was some type of defacement, injuries to the face. Gosh I hate to type all this, but maybe not only overkill, but overkill in the sense of disfigurement, perhaps post-mortem.

What throws me off a lot in this case is the lack of SA, which was my first thought as to motive.

For reference, what serial killers or mass murders killed without sexually abusing theIr victims?
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Did you see Dr. Phil on Monday on this case? Wxpert said the same thing.
 
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