ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 34

[Happyshoes]

With you on the latter. Chemical and rage. I think this is a first time killer and yes it’s not normal. Young guy on drugs I think.

I agree. Possibly steroid rage + drugs and/or alcohol. Fantasized about this for a long time. Something happened that night to trigger him. I read you could see the house from fraternity. If that's true, he could see lights go out. In and out pretty quick. Gloves, booties - very little DNA. I think LE knows by now. Got to corroborate loose ends. Chief looked more relaxed in latest press conference. I'm feeling very hopeful.

 

[tstephens1981]

MOO- Is anyone else kind of questioning the “actual” relevancy of some of the video releases? They seem like speculation-fuel to me.

The alcohol stop on the night of the murders & the girls “conversation” about Adam in particular. Have we come away with anything meaningful from these? My main takeaway has been that this is a college drinking town. I’m sure I’m missing some nuances; thoughts?

Idaho murders: Full video appearing to show Kaylee Goncalves and Maddie Mogen hours before slayings released

Surveillance video appears to show Kaylee Goncalves and Maddie Mogen walking in Moscow hours before they were killed in their rental home with two friends.

www.foxnews.com

Moscow Police release new body camera footage from Nov. 13 - KXLY

MOSCOW, ID. – For the first time, Moscow detectives have released new body camera footage during the early morning hours of Sunday, Nov. 13. Police hope that the footage can provide new leads the case of the four University of Idaho students killed. In the video, police officers are seen on...

www.kxly.com

ETA: I’m not questioning the quality of LE tactics & obviously I’m as curious as anyone about this case. I’ll take any additional info that is available but personally they don’t add much more than maybe context (and at worse, doxxing potentially innocent people) to me. JMHO

 

[crimesnooper]

I’m so sorry if I’ve missed anything relating to what I’m about to say, but the longer that the Hyundai goes unidentified and the longer LE insist on centering their investigation on it (that WE can all see that is), the more I lean away from it being someone known to the victims (eg jilted ex, betrayed friend, even a rejected distant acquaintance) and lean instead towds it being someone unknown to the victims that was fixated on one or more of the victims for whatever reason or the house itself.

IMO LE would have been able to track the Hyundai back to the owner by now if it belonged to someone within their social circle or even on the outskirts of their circle. IMO this would even be true of a situation where the car belongs to the parent of someone known to the killer. I get a parent wanting to protect their kid, but surely SOMEONE would know the car, particularly if it were someone who attended the college, lived in the area, etc.

IMO the fact that they are still desperately wanting information on that car tells me there is no link in terms of a personal link between the victims and the killer or they would have made it by now.

That's the part that bothers me. But I can't believe after all this time, the digital, forensic and other info, some that we can't discuss on this site, that LE only has the car.
I think...and I posted it already... they have a suspect with an alibi that they know is a lie.. but can't prove it. They need that car's occupants to place the killer in the area of the house or at least not where he said he was.

 

[Happyshoes]

For those who think this killing was either an act of rage by an acquaintance or a chemically fueled event, what's your take on LE's persistent focus on the white Elantra? Was the Elantra instrumental to the murders, and if so, how?

Need more to tie perp to the crime.

 

[hopewell]

I think it's possible the killer never intended to kill four people. His intent wasn't cemented in stone when he entered the house that he was going to kill Kaylee. I think we might be talking about someone on the verge of a psychotic break with his disordered thinking and suppressed rage. He brought the knife so he's thinking about it but he makes the decision when he encounters his first triggers that cause the total break with reality. Either it's the suppressed rage at Kaylee & Maddie is a witness, and then EC wakes up and he and Xani are killed on the way out...or he encounters them on the way in, is recognized...and he's loses it.
Strange as it may sound he may have been able to accomplish more on autopilot in the throws of complete break
Just a theory that he may never have killed animals or humans before.

A psychotic person wouldn't have been this clean, quiet, and efficient, IMO.

 

[Sunny Texas]

There are companies that specialize in respectfully cleaning crime scenes and returning them to the families. If anyone is interested, there was an episode of the podcast Criminal many years ago that interviewed the owner of one company. Once a house is cleared after a murder, a suicide, suspicious death, they come in and they are the people that will rip up the carpet, repaint, eliminate anything that could be upsetting for the family. I thought it was a very kind service and I never knew it existed before the show.

Insurance companies pay a pretty penny for such cleanups. For example, we once had a nearby neighbor who committed suicide by shooting himself indoors. The homeowner's insurance policy paid over $50K to ServPro for the cleanup.

 

[hopewell]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

A serial killer learns to project, kill, and tolerate death by killing weaker beings like animals. He may not kill those animals with a knife, but his morbid, dissociative curiosities often compel him to 'explore' them with one ex post facto. This often leads to the kinds of fantasies we are all too familiar with.

Stabbing 4 people to death in unison that are unrelated to you, and while they sleep, is not typically a one-off type of thing. I imagine BAU being called in immediately means the scene was not a typical death scene, and may even have patterns of a (yet to be publicized) serial killer.

My opinion.

 

[Cindizzi]

<modsnip>

This is a great candid interview with our favorite boots on the ground reporter, Brian Entin regarding his interviews with victims family, LE and local businesses in Moscow.

 

[fridaybaker]

MOO- Is anyone else kind of questioning the “actual” relevancy of some of the video releases? They seem like speculation-fuel to me.

The alcohol stop on the night of the murders & the girls “conversation” about Adam in particular. Have we come away with anything meaningful from these? My main takeaway has been that this is a college drinking town. I’m sure I’m missing some nuances; thoughts?

Idaho murders: Full video appearing to show Kaylee Goncalves and Maddie Mogen hours before slayings released

Surveillance video appears to show Kaylee Goncalves and Maddie Mogen walking in Moscow hours before they were killed in their rental home with two friends.

www.foxnews.com

Moscow Police release new body camera footage from Nov. 13 - KXLY

MOSCOW, ID. – For the first time, Moscow detectives have released new body camera footage during the early morning hours of Sunday, Nov. 13. Police hope that the footage can provide new leads the case of the four University of Idaho students killed. In the video, police officers are seen on...

www.kxly.com

ETA: I’m not at all questioning the quality of LE tactics & obviously I’m as curious as anyone about this case. I’ll take any additional info that is available but personally they don’t add much more than maybe context (and at worse, doxxing potentially innocent people) to me.

I thought that the video of the women walking with “Hoody Guy” was very helpful. It provided context to the “food truck video” and, as a result, at least for me, an entirely different interpretation of Hoody Guy. I have to think that he may have welcomed it as well, as he’d apparently been harassed due to the first video.

 

[annpats]

Does this car NOT have a number plate? was it taken off? Or just another coincidence?

There are photos floating around online that were taken previously before the plate was removed, that show it with a Colorado license plate.

 

[MassGuy]

I agree. Possibly steroid rage + drugs and/or alcohol. Fantasized about this for a long time. Something happened that night to trigger him. I read you could see the house from fraternity. If that's true, he could see lights go out. In and out pretty quick. Gloves, booties - very little DNA. I think LE knows by now. Got to corroborate loose ends. Chief looked more relaxed in latest press conference. I'm feeling very hopeful.

It just makes so much sense for me. The fantasy involved the knife, which he had for a while.

 

[annpats]

For those who think this killing was either an act of rage by an acquaintance or a chemically fueled event, what's your take on LE's persistent focus on the white Elantra? Was the Elantra instrumental to the murders, and if so, how?

For me, it may have been a getaway car for the person out of state who was told/hired to do the killings.

No way were these killings done by a fellow student in Moscow. Too clean, swift and professional.

MOO.

 

[tstephens1981]

I thought that the video of the women walking with “Hoody Guy” was very helpful. It provided context to the “food truck video” and, as a result, at least for me, an entirely different interpretation of Hoody Guy. I have to think that he may have welcomed it as well, as he’d apparently been harassed due to the first video.

Good point- definitely seemed to clear up his involvement. Thanks!

 

[Past Mortem]

That's the part that bothers me. But I can't believe after all this time, the digital, forensic and other info, some that we can't discuss on this site, that LE only has the car.
I think...and I posted it already... they have a suspect with an alibi that they know is a lie.. but can't prove it. They need that car's occupants to place the killer in the area of the house or at least not where he said he was.

Do you think the killer borrowed the car or is the owner in your opinion? And what are your thoughts on why no one known to the owner has tipped off LE? Do you believe the killer is a local/living there for college? I just can’t understand how no one known the the killer or killers family wouldn’t have sent in a tip by now. And when did the call out for info on the Hyundai come out? I agree with your theory in the early days but if we still don’t have anything further aside from some limited, poor vision CCTV footage than does LE not think maybe it’s time to start shaking a different tree?

Please don’t take any of that the wrong way, they are genuine questions as I’m curious to hear everyone’s point of view with this case. I change my mind constantly but I struggle more with each day that passes that they are STILL searching for this damn car! I’ve been of the opinion that LE is keeping their cards close to their chest to protect the integrity of the investigation and subsequent justice, however the fact that that still don’t have the info on the car yet haven’t put out any other details in order to receive useful tips from the public makes me think otherwise.

 

[Sunny Texas]

Insurance Company Deciding Fate of 1122 King???
@accordn2me Sorry, I'm not sure I'm following ^.
Depending on ins.coverage in policy, Ins. Co. may or may not pay for special haz-mat type cleaning. But aside from that, or possibly w a specific coverage for loss-of-use-for-business/rental-prop, how does ins. co. fit in to the pic?
Anyone? Thx in adv.

[ETA. Agreeing that the owner decides. It's private prop, so (unless there's an issue btwn owner & mtg. lender, if any) owner decides.]

Sorry if already covered since orig. post. Also sorry if I'm dense re this.

It depends what kind of insurance coverage the homeowner carried on this property. Most cover cleanup, and in a case like this, with so much blood in multiple rooms, that could easily run over $100K, I should think...maybe even more. It's possible that given the magnitude of this crime and notoriety of the location, a case could be made for insurance to declare it a total loss. I'm not sure insurance would do that. I very wealthy homeowner or one who wanted to rebuild differently could take the cleanup settlement, raze, and rebuild, eating the cost difference. Most property owners couldn't afford to raze a $500+K property, so I would assume they would just remodel after the cleanup and hope to rent it to someone either unaware of or unconcerned about the house history.

 

[tstephens1981]

It depends what kind of insurance coverage the homeowner carried on this property. Most cover cleanup, and in a case like this, with so much blood in multiple rooms, that could easily run over $100K, I should think...maybe even more. It's possible that given the magnitude of this crime and notoriety of the location, a case could be made for insurance to declare it a total loss. I'm not sure insurance would do that. I very wealthy homeowner or one who wanted to rebuild differently could take the cleanup settlement, raze, and rebuild, eating the cost difference. Most property owners couldn't afford to raze a $500+K property, so I would assume they would just remodel after the cleanup and hope to rent it to someone either unaware of or unconcerned about the house history.

I’ve also considered the possibility that after demolishing, the owner could mitigate *some* of the loss by selling the actual property. Still a huge loss for most. In this case, the area may still be somewhat desirable for student housing?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

If the killer is semi-local, has friends and a busy life and the car isn't a burner car - then someone would notice that so and so is suddenly without wheels (to get to work, go to socialize, go to gym/hobbies, pick up so and so) and hopefully call in a tip.

But let's say this person isn't busy and more a loner type - so no job, no social life, no family around, etc. So no one to notice their car not being used.

The other way this could be if someone lives close by/local and in a rural area where they don't use their car much except to head into town here and there for things. So car isn't "seen" much around town but more hidden on an acreage or rural property.

Also - have to wonder if the perp is being protected or helped if they are younger and parents recognize the car. MOO JMO... thinking out loud as usual.

 

[redrunner02]

I agree. Possibly steroid rage + drugs and/or alcohol. Fantasized about this for a long time. Something happened that night to trigger him. I read you could see the house from fraternity. If that's true, he could see lights go out. In and out pretty quick. Gloves, booties - very little DNA. I think LE knows by now. Got to corroborate loose ends. Chief looked more relaxed in latest press conference. I'm feeling very hopeful.

The one thing that really sticks with me is that there were upper rooms in that one frat or sorority complex that were high enough that they could look directly into those 3rd floor rooms. I'm in my 50's now but I still remember when I would go visit my cousin that lived in a relatively tall dorm at a university. There were 3 other dorms that sort of faced each other with probably a good 300 feet of distance between all of them. One dorm was an all girl dorm. Anyhow I walk in the room and the first thing I see is a telescope or spotting scope by the window. Then one of his room mates starts pointing out which windows are the good ones to watch because "they never close there drapes". JMOO but it's possible these girls have been giving someone over there quite the show over the years.

 

[EBW321]

If the killer is semi-local, has friends and a busy life and the car isn't a burner car - then someone would notice that so and so is suddenly without wheels (to get to work, go to socialize, go to gym/hobbies, pick up so and so) and hopefully call in a tip.

But let's say this person isn't busy and more a loner type - so no job, no social life, no family around, etc. So no one to notice their car not being used.

The other way this could be if someone lives close by/local and in a rural area where they don't use their car much except to head into town here and there for things. So car isn't "seen" much around town but more hidden on an acreage or rural property.

Also - have to wonder if the perp is being protected or helped if they are younger and parents recognize the car. MOO JMO... thinking out loud as usual.

I’ve thought about the car a lot as well. It’s just so confusing for such a well planned attack.

Moo-

Could the car belong to someone they knew was out of town…

Could it belong to a grandparent who no longer drives and wouldn’t notice it missing at night.

Could it belong to anyone who wouldn’t notice it missing at night.

Far fetched I know, as far as theories I’ve posted this may be one of my most unlikely.

But I knkw for me personally, I have two grandparents I could easily take their cars for a night, and return without them even noticing. So technically it could be possible.

Also I heard K’s parents mention in a recent interview they believe the car was possibly borrowed.

 

[crimesnooper]

A psychotic person wouldn't have been this clean, quiet, and efficient, IMO.

Well that's my point. That state might have allowed that.