ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 35

[Justice101]

It's frustrating because cases aren't wrapped neatly in an hour like they are in CSI or SVU. It's a process that is incredibly daunting, they have to comb through tips, evidence and possible suspects. Also, when evidence is released to the public that evidence took investigators awhile to find! The public or these "armchair detectives" online are expecting more, but that's not the reality of an investigation. My father is a detective, he has worked on numerous murder cases, it is not as easy as people online want to make it seem. The Moscow PD are doing their best.

This!

In the real world, some things necessarily take time.

 

[layer]

So, which ones weren't killed in their beds.

Clearly E wasn't killed in his bed. And either K or M weren't killed in their bed. (K, if you subscribe to what SG says).

 

[NuttMegg]

It makes more sense if you believe the motivation was simply to commit murder - not to target an individual because of something they’d done, said or knew.

well I have a pretty long theory which I detailed yesterday, and weeks ago. It involves the change of clientele at the bar at about 9 pm, switching from town ppl to college kids. And a possible obsession by some guy who was casually rebuffed by one of the 2 girls old enough to even get in the bar. I'll just leave it at that, so as not to repeat it all.

Targeting a house full of students just to kill all of them, just doesn't t make sense. Yes I realize he didn't kill the 2 downstairs, but I don't think he ever cared about them. Nor did he care about killing EC and XK, but he had to. I am definitely not trying to humanize a guy who is clearly a monster, but it could be that his whole plan went wrong.

Imo

 

[SMK777]

Some were in bed, other(s) weren't.


"Of the four University of Idaho students who were found stabbed to death in a rental house last Sunday, some were killed in their beds, the Latah County coroner told CBS News Friday.

Coroner Cathy Mabbutt would not provide any further details. She noted, however, that earlier media reports stating all four victims had been murdered in their beds were not accurate."

Some of the murdered University of Idaho students were stabbed in their beds, coroner says

According to police, the coroner said all four victims were likely asleep, some had defensive wounds and each was stabbed multiple times.

www.cbsnews.com

I’ve always used this quote when people have asked if all 4 were really asleep in their beds when attacked, and people have always come back at me by saying:

a. That the coroner later admits they were all asleep
and
b. Official reports say they were all asleep.

It’s frustrating, because it makes you wonder what prompted the coroner to make this correction at all, and it seems to indicate that the killer really did intend to kill all 4, and was not surprised by anyone who woke up — which sounds like a hired hit.

 

[SMK777]

Anyway. targeting a "house" and purposely killing so many people doesn't make as much sense to me as does having just one target and ending up the way it did with 4 dead.

SBM
Absolutely.

 

[EmmieA]

A hell of a battle confined to a small bedroom? But, died in their sleep? Defensive wounds? Dad says Kaylee and Maddie were killed in their bed. Coroner says "some" victims were killed in their beds. So, which ones weren't killed in their beds. The killer had a hell of a battle with the second floor victims, and THEN went up to the third floor?


"Although the coroner told Goncalves that the victims died quickly and did not suffer, he said he's not convinced.

Kernodle, who had defensive wounds, and Chapin were found on the second floor of 1122 King Road. "It was a hell of a battle going on down there from what the coroner told us," Goncalves said. "

Idaho murders: Father of slain victim says she had 'big open wounds,' calls police 'cowards'

Slain Idaho college student Kaylee Goncalves' father exclusively told Fox News Digital that the victims had "big open gouges" that were made by a "sadistic male."

www.foxnews.com

Technically Kaylee was not killed in her bed.

ETA: corrected the name!

 

[DizzyB]

Does this not sort of confirm the order of killings. K and M were caught unaware, in their sleep. During the stabbing, E and X wake up and are thus more prepared.

We have no information beyond COD determined as stabbing. We do not know where any of the victims were found, other than 2 on floor 2 and 2 on floor 3. SG is the only person who said that K&M were together. We don’t know how he came to that conclusion, other than his comment about seeing K’s made up bed in a photo. X’s Dad said she put up a heck of a fight, but there is no information as to how he came to that conclusion. He may have been given some information, but there is nothing out there concrete. The coroner stated that all victims were likely asleep when attacked, but did not go further than that except she stated that at least some of the victims were found in bed. We are drawing conclusions based on supposition.

 

[NuttMegg]

Clearly E wasn't killed in his bed. And either K or M weren't killed in their bed. (K, if you subscribe to what SG says).

i know we talked about this before, I just don't put any validity to the use of "their" in the context of that sentence. She meant, imo, some were killed/not killed "in beds". The coroner, imo, does not seem to use precise descriptive language.

 

[ACG2x]

Does this not sort of confirm the order of killings. K and M were caught unaware, in their sleep. During the stabbing, E and X wake up and are thus more prepared.

This has been my thought from the early days of the investigation. K and or M were the target(s) and killer knew the layout of the house and where they were within it.

• Killer enters through the sliding glass door on the second floor
• Proceeds immediately to the little annex stairs to the third floor
• Highly suspect killer was watching the house in the hour(s) preceding the murders and saw the third floor light on which you could easily see from multiple hidden vantage points given the layout of the neighborhood and woods that surrounds the house. Once the third floor light went out, which was likely shortly after K & M's final calls to JD, killer waits 15-30 minutes so they are asleep then makes his move
• Catches K & M by surprise - in their slightly intoxicated state I believe they were in and having been exhausted from being out all night they are cornered and have no chance
• Killer violently stabs both until they stop moving - may be planning on leaving but hears E and or X get stirred by the noise
• Strongly suspect E exits the bedroom to see what's up and encounters killer. Catches him by surprise and gets several deep stabs in which incapacitated him
• Killer hears X in the bedroom still. It's pitch black & she doesn't know what's happening so she sits up in bed but sees killer moving at her fast
• X knows something is very wrong but is attacked before she can get out of the way and/or reach her phone. She's more fully awake which is why her father reported she had strong defensive wounds
• Killer is facing a petite girl caught by surprise in the back corner of a bedroom and while she puts up a fight, she is quickly overpowered and incapacitated

Killer makes sure both E & X are dead or will be soon and leaves the same away he entered. Perhaps the encounter with E & X spooked him to just get out of there ASAP. Maybe he knew the two others were downstairs, maybe he didn't, but at that point he realizes he's making a ton of noise and commotion and panics and bolts out.

All MOO of course.

 

[nisco]

The official police statement says that all four were likely attacked while they slept.

https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24891/12-06-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update

I’m not seeing that in your link. I’m seeing the exact same wording from MPD as from the coroner. They were all likely asleep, and that they were all NOT found in their beds. Both can be true. Asleep when the perp came in, but one or more found out of bed.

 

[EmmieA]

Yet, the coroner says otherwise.

I know the coroner changed her wording about the beds (from all to some) but did she ever change her wording about all of them likely being asleep? I could be wrong but I don’t remember that being changed.

MOO

 

[OrlandoJames]

I’m not seeing that in your link. I’m seeing the exact same wording from MPD as from the coroner. They were all likely asleep, and that they were all NOT found in their beds. Both can be true. Asleep when the perp came in, but one or more found out of bed.

Not seeing what? I just said that the police report states that they were ‘likely asleep’, which it does.

 

[CityKid]

We have no information beyond COD determined as stabbing. We do not know where any of the victims were found, other than 2 on floor 2 and 2 on floor 3. SG is the only person who said that K&M were together. We don’t know how he came to that conclusion, other than his comment about seeing K’s made up bed in a photo. X’s Dad said she put up a heck of a fight, but there is no information as to how he came to that conclusion. He may have been given some information, but there is nothing out there concrete. The coroner stated that all victims were likely asleep when attacked, but did not go further than that except she stated that at least some of the victims were found in bed. We are drawing conclusions based on supposition.

Thank you! I understand the parents and family members are in unimaginable pain, and if it gives them solace to think their child fought for their life, or their child was not in pain and died quickly, they are entitled to those feelings. I don't feel comfortable conflating family statements with LE's facts because those statements have led to some incorrect conclusions being turned into canon.

 

[NuttMegg]

I’ve always used this quote when people have asked if all 4 were really asleep in their beds when attacked, and people have always come back at me by saying:

a. That the coroner later admits they were all asleep
and
b. Official reports say they were all asleep.

It’s frustrating, because it makes you wonder what prompted the coroner to make this correction at all, and it seems to indicate that the killer really did intend to kill all 4, and was not surprised by anyone who woke up — which sounds like a hired hit.

iirc the report that all were asleep came before she changed it to "some were in their beds".

Imo the opinion that all were asleep was a soothing remark, (which should never have been used in the capacity of a professional coroner) meant to put the parents at ease. They didn't suffer? Uh, baloney. IMO

 

[arielilane]

https://twitter.com/CoffindafferFBI

Goncalves lawyer: "We want to let them know that we were holding them accountable for their decisions," Every minute LE spends answering to this lawyers demands & scheduling one-on-one updates w/him is time spent away from finding the murderer. #IdahoFour

 

[nisco]

Technically Maddie was not killed in her bed.

You have that backwards. Both on 3rd floor were found in Maddie’s bed.

 

[LadyBelle]

This has been my thought from the early days of the investigation. K and or M were the target(s) and killer knew the layout of the house and where they were within it.

• Killer enters through the sliding glass door on the second floor
• Proceeds immediately to the little annex stairs to the third floor
• Highly suspect killer was watching the house in the hour(s) preceding the murders and saw the third floor light on which you could easily see from multiple hidden vantage points given the layout of the neighborhood and woods that surrounds the house. Once the third floor light went out, which was likely shortly after K & M's final calls to JD, killer waits 15-30 minutes so they are asleep then makes his move
• Catches K & M by surprise - in their slightly intoxicated state I believe they were in and having been exhausted from being out all night they are cornered and have no chance
• Killer violently stabs both until they stop moving - may be planning on leaving but hears E and or X get stirred by the noise
• Strongly suspect E exits the bedroom to see what's up and encounters killer. Catches him by surprise and gets several deep stabs in which incapacitated him
• Killer hears X in the bedroom still. It's pitch black & she doesn't know what's happening so she sits up in bed but sees killer moving at her fast
• X knows something is very wrong but is attacked before she can get out of the way and/or reach her phone. She's more fully awake which is why her father reported she had strong defensive wounds
• Killer is facing a petite girl caught by surprise in the back corner of a bedroom and while she puts up a fight, she is quickly overpowered and incapacitated

Killer makes sure both E & X are dead or will be soon and leaves the same away he entered. Perhaps the encounter with E & X spooked him to just get out of there ASAP. Maybe he knew the two others were downstairs, maybe he didn't, but at that point he realizes he's making a ton of noise and commotion and panics and bolts out.

All MOO of course.

Yep. That's it. 100% agreed. This is my theory also. See you guys if/when we ever get more info from LE. Ciao!

 

[PrincessIvy]

They must have suspect’s dna. They are not releasing the profile because they must know who the killer is. I suspect they are getting enough evidence on anyone who may have been indirectly involved as well. I think you will see multiple arrests soon.

 

[OrlandoJames]

They must have suspect’s dna. They are not releasing the profile because they must know who the killer is. I suspect they are getting enough evidence on anyone who may have been indirectly involved as well. I think you will see multiple arrests soon.

I admire, but do not share, your optimism.

 

[NuttMegg]

I know the coroner changed her wording about the beds (from all to some) but did she ever change her wording about all of them likely being asleep? I could be wrong but I don’t remember that being changed.

MOO

I don't think so, but geez, how could he/they be out of bed yet asleep? I can halfway buy that a corpse lying composed on a bed without any sign of movement could be termed "killed while asleep", but how could the coroner assess that in reverse? Someone dead, not found in their bed was killed while asleep?