ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 35

[OrlandoJames]

No, because the point is that the coroner (imo) cannot tell if they were "asleep". It's not enough for a person in a quasi- scientific position to guess that they were all asleep...why? Because it was night time?

If a victim was found on the bedroom floor or in the hallway, but a large amount of their blood was found in the bed, the coroner might conclude that the attack started while they were in bed but ended outside the bed.

 

[NuttMegg]

Outside of SG relaying that information has there been any other mention of a "hell of a battle?"

Not that I know of. There is another account from the family that the coroner gave horrific details to a 17 year old over the phone at the G house. Thing is, adding it all up, where else would all these details have come from if not the coroner? I know the G family, and all the families are completely wrecked, but the father has been consistent, imo, in mentioning details he says he got from the coroner.

 

[PrairieWind]

The official police statement says that all four were likely attacked while they slept.

https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24891/12-06-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update

I think that is a good distinction: "attacked" while asleep, not necessarily killed while asleep. One or more may have awoke and then put up some sort of a struggle.

 

[NuttMegg]

If a victim was found on the bedroom floor or in the hallway, but a large amount of their blood was found in the bed, the coroner might conclude that the attack started while they were in bed but ended outside the bed.

Sure, I agree. But that does not warrant use of the word "asleep".

 

[layer]

Date of your link is 11/17. Date of link from poster you quoted 11/19. Snippet from link in poster you quoted:

“Coroner Cathy Mabbutt would not provide any further details. She noted, however, that earlier media reports stating all four victims had been murdered in their beds were not accurate.“

Again, I've posted this before.
If you watch that press conference she reiterates "they were all found in bed."
The followup question, later in the same press conference is "They were all found in their beds?
To which she replies "some were found in their beds."
This is pretty precise and straightforward.

I suspect she was trying to avoid giving away the fact that they weren't found in four separate beds, in four separate bedrooms, because it could have been deemed a crucial detail in keeping the integrity of the investigation.

 

[OrlandoJames]

Sure, I agree. But that does not warrant use of the word "asleep".

She used the word ‘likely’. Maybe she just assumed that if the attack started while the victim was in bed, they were probably - but not definitely - asleep when it began.

 

[LizWords]

A 2019 tenant living on the first floor said his room had a code lock.

Ok well the body cam video shows no code lock on one of the downstairs bedrooms…

 

[AngTxGal]

Maybe so. But it's not part of my imagining a "hell of a battle". How would the coroner know that they were attacked while they slept if they weren't in the bed at the end? Maybe Xana was wide awake petrified, but still in bed when attacked? Ie not asleep.

The coroner didn’t know for certain what had happened when she spoke out
Autopsy and crime scene reenactment would give more info on what actually happened

What the coroner shared were her speculations, thoughts, her best guess based on her experience and having been at the scene. That‘s it, it is easy to try to read into each word to find clues to what she knows and can’t say. I don’t think she could know, as the investigation is still in progress

KREM News Interview with Cathy Mabbatt- November 15. 2022 5 min

JMO

 

[Charlot123]

I’ve been unfortunately thinking that same thing, but didn’t want to say it. IMO it’s not the smell of blood that would have alerted the other residents, I believe that would have been very mild compared to the rest of it (I’ll follow your lead of respectfully not going into detail). Especially given that these were knife injuries, so you have the added likelihood of cutting into bowel. Unpleasant, but I think any hunter is probably thinking/aware of the same thing. Not sure if that’s helpful, but I’ve seen the idea of the other two residents smelling the blood come up quite a few times, and think unfortunately that’s likely missing the very sad reality of it all.

It is quite possible. Other reality might have interfered. Some people have post-COVID syndrome with poor olfactory functioning; others, severe photic reflex with blocked sinuses in the morning. People should be somewhat aware of the smell, but I would not rely on it. In general, if one woke up, the house is unusually quiet and their roommates don’t answer, one could think, maybe, they are sick, but murder won’t automatically come to one’s mind. All that said it is too sad that random people were called into the house before the police. This is surprisingly immature to say the least.

 

[Aquarian]

Or more terrifying... by people on SM.

Yea exactly!

 

[NuttMegg]

She used the word ‘likely’. Maybe she just assumed that if the attack started while the victim was in bed, they were probably - but not definitely - asleep when it began.

Look what her "assumptions" did to the father. He was not buying this "they did not suffer".

"Steven Goncalves said he asked the coroner, Cathy Mabbutt, how many times the victims were stabbed.

"She says, sir, I don't think stabs is the right word, it was like tears, like this was a strong weapon, not like a stab," he told Fox News Digital Sunday. "


"Although the coroner told Goncalves that the victims died quickly and did not suffer, he said he's not convinced."

Idaho murders: Father of slain victim says she had 'big open wounds,' calls police 'cowards'

Slain Idaho college student Kaylee Goncalves' father exclusively told Fox News Digital that the victims had "big open gouges" that were made by a "sadistic male."

www.foxnews.com

 

[RoadRageKills]

I know from experience that military personnel are exempt from this requirement in many states.

College students normally do not change their primary residency to the state they're attending college. The majority of students keep their cars registered to their parents address, which would also be their primary residence. That is just my experience and moo.

 

[AngTxGal]

I can’t understand this: What would be the reason Police Chief Fry “would not confirm the caller’s identity” after saying that the 911 call was made using one of the surviving roommate’s phones?

I’m sorry if this is old news, but I’m sort of going “back to the beginning” in this case. Why would LE want to protect the identity of the person making the call? Is this routine? Afraid the killer might come back for her? That doesn’t really wash with me, as the killer would really only care if there were witnesses, not who called it in, right? What other reasons would there be?

Can you imagine how the killer felt and thought when a few days had passed and they had not been found out- and then on the news a story comes out about two females being in the house when the murderers happened.
Anyone who was alive in the house when the murders took place, or arrived quickly afterward could become a target for murder
What did they see? The killer may not know, as they didn’t know they were in the home.
I would feel better about it if the identity’s of B and D had not come out at all. The fear they may feel following the trauma of the events could be life changing.

JMO

 

[CityKid]

I don't think so, but geez, how could he/they be out of bed yet asleep? I can halfway buy that a corpse lying composed on a bed without any sign of movement could be termed "killed while asleep", but how could the coroner assess that in reverse? Someone dead, not found in their bed was killed while asleep?

rolled off.

 

[AngTxGal]

.
Look what her "assumptions" did to the father. He was not buying this "they did not suffer".

"Steven Goncalves said he asked the coroner, Cathy Mabbutt, how many times the victims were stabbed.

"She says, sir, I don't think stabs is the right word, it was like tears, like this was a strong weapon, not like a stab," he told Fox News Digital Sunday. "


"Although the coroner told Goncalves that the victims died quickly and did not suffer, he said he's not convinced."

Idaho murders: Father of slain victim says she had 'big open wounds,' calls police 'cowards'

Slain Idaho college student Kaylee Goncalves' father exclusively told Fox News Digital that the victims had "big open gouges" that were made by a "sadistic male."

www.foxnews.com

In my strong opinion on this, She should only have said homicide by stabbing
She is a coroner and a defense attorney SMH

JMO

 

[CityKid]

Maybe so. But it's not part of my imagining a "hell of a battle". How would the coroner know that they were attacked while they slept if they weren't in the bed at the end? Maybe Xana was wide awake petrified, but still in bed when attacked? Ie not asleep.

Again, 'hell of a battle' was an SG remark, not part of any official LE statement.

 

[darring21]

This is pretty precise:
Banfield: Can you tell me, when you said that they might have been sleeping, were they found in beds?
Mabbutt: Uhm, yes.

Source

This is how I remember it. The coroner originally said the above, that they were found in beds. She then walked that back a bit by saying that not all were found in their beds. I think she wanted to correct the implication about being found in their personal beds given that Kaylee was in Maddie's room. Later, we get the results of the autopsy that they were all likely asleep when attacked.

 

[Down To Earth]

Yet no one heard anything? Hmm. Sorry but I’ve always thought that was strange-both because of the others at home AND because it was an “unusually quiet night”. Clearly people were awake and about (per police body cams footage) and there were other houses close to theirs. I hope they know a lot more than they are letting on. Any one of those people out and about at that time of night could have been his/their victims instead of these 4 if this was someone looking for s thrill kill.

I also wonder if it was more than one person.

It seems super weird to me that some of the neighbors have recounted an “unusually quiet night”, yet somebody called the police and registered a noise complaint that was followed up on and documented with body cam video. Is the “unusually quiet night” dramatic hindsight, like a way for those in proximity to appear to have experienced at least “something”?

 

[CityKid]

Look what her "assumptions" did to the father. He was not buying this "they did not suffer".

"Steven Goncalves said he asked the coroner, Cathy Mabbutt, how many times the victims were stabbed.

"She says, sir, I don't think stabs is the right word, it was like tears, like this was a strong weapon, not like a stab," he told Fox News Digital Sunday. "


"Although the coroner told Goncalves that the victims died quickly and did not suffer, he said he's not convinced."

Idaho murders: Father of slain victim says she had 'big open wounds,' calls police 'cowards'

Slain Idaho college student Kaylee Goncalves' father exclusively told Fox News Digital that the victims had "big open gouges" that were made by a "sadistic male."

www.foxnews.com

And here he is on Nov. 29, saying the opposite. SG's story is inconsistent and that's why I'm going by LE official statements only and ignoring the statements from the grieving families.

Quoting from the link I pasted below, BBM:
In an interview with “Good Morning America” on Tuesday, Steve Goncalves said his daughter, Kaylee Goncalves, died quickly after an unknown intruder killed her and three of her friends on November 13, inside a rented off-campus home near the school.

“It was fast and nobody suffered and nobody felt like that kind of pain,” Steve said.

from University of Idaho Murders: Dad of Slain Student Kaylee Goncalves Says She Didn’t Suffer, Killing was ‘Fast’

 

[CityKid]

It seems super weird to me that some of the neighbors have recounted an “unusually quiet night”, yet somebody called the police and registered a noise complaint that was followed up on and documented with body cam video. Is the “unusually quiet night” dramatic hindsight, like a way for those in proximity to appear to have experienced at least “something”?

The body cam video (edited to add, the one where LE came to the house for the noise complaint) we've all seen is from Sept. 1; is there another body cam video from the night of the murder?