ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 35

[fridaybaker]

RS&BBM. Protecting the caller would be the reason. Imagine if LE state 'John Doe' made the call, you'd have the media and online people not only harrassing the person, but wildly speculating about them online. MOO.

I get it. Thanks. That’s likely it.

 

[NuttMegg]

I can’t understand this: What would be the reason Police Chief Fry “would not confirm the caller’s identity” after saying that the 911 call was made using one of the surviving roommate’s phones?

I’m sorry if this is old news, but I’m sort of going “back to the beginning” in this case. Why would LE want to protect the identity of the person making the call? Is this routine? Afraid the killer might come back for her? That doesn’t really wash with me, as the killer would really only care if there were witnesses, not who called it in, right? What other reasons would there be?

Privacy for severely traumatized people not involved in a crime?

 

[CityKid]

I can’t understand this: What would be the reason Police Chief Fry “would not confirm the caller’s identity” after saying that the 911 call was made using one of the surviving roommate’s phones?

I’m sorry if this is old news, but I’m sort of going “back to the beginning” in this case. Why would LE want to protect the identity of the person making the call? Is this routine? Afraid the killer might come back for her? That doesn’t really wash with me, as the killer would really only care if there were witnesses, not who called it in, right? What other reasons would there be?

I know the contents of a 911 are generally public record, but I can't find any law stating the caller's identity should be revealed. I called 911 for what sounded like a DV situation in an apartment above me, and if I thought for a minute the person who I thought was the abuser would be able to access my identity, I would've had to think twice about making the call for fear of retaliation.

 

[hopewell]

I think the police wording makes it clear that some people in the victims' inner and outer circle are not believed to be involved at this point, but I wouldn't be surprised if their alibis and actions that night are still being scrutinized by LE.

Unless one of them has access to a ghost Elantra, I think we can take their word as gospel.

 

[Emerald1328]

I’ve been unfortunately thinking that same thing, but didn’t want to say it. IMO it’s not the smell of blood that would have alerted the other residents, I believe that would have been very mild compared to the rest of it (I’ll follow your lead of respectfully not going into detail). Especially given that these were knife injuries, so you have the added likelihood of cutting into bowel. Unpleasant, but I think any hunter is probably thinking/aware of the same thing. Not sure if that’s helpful, but I’ve seen the idea of the other two residents smelling the blood come up quite a few times, and think unfortunately that’s likely missing the very sad reality of it all.

If I smelled something like that while coming upstairs, I wouldn’t think my roommates being murdered (or even dead for any reason) was the source of it. I can think of a bunch of things I would think it was instead though. Such as:

-Someone left something to rot in the trash and it finally started to smell
-There had been a sewer backup somewhere
-Someone had just gone #2 in the bathroom and/or vomited and didn’t flush
-A very drunk roommate accidentally went to the bathroom or vomited in their bed or on the floor
-If they had been drinking the night before, maybe their sense of smell was or they just thought their sense of smell was off

I just cannot imagine that someone who doesn’t work around death often would immediately come to that conclusion before seeing anything.

 

[OrlandoJames]

It’s getting awfully cold out there…

It feels that way, doesn’t it? I’d love to believe that the police know a lot more than they’ve revealed and are quietly building a case, but I get the impression that they have no idea who did this and why.

 

[ACG2x]

If I smelled something like that while coming upstairs, I wouldn’t think my roommates being murdered (or even dead for any reason) was the source of it. I can think of a bunch of things I would think it was instead though. Such as:

-Someone left something to rot in the trash and it finally started to smell
-There had been a sewer backup somewhere
-Someone had just gone #2 in the bathroom and/or vomited and didn’t flush
-A very drunk roommate accidentally went to the bathroom or vomited in their bed or on the floor
-If they had been drinking the night before, maybe their sense of smell was or they just thought their sense of smell was off

I just cannot imagine that someone who doesn’t work around death often would immediately come to that conclusion before seeing anything.

Agreed - and an actual corpse doesn't start to really have the stench of rotting or the 'death smell' as LE officers have described until at last 24-48 hours after death has occurred. Human blood contains iron and the smell of it has been described as similar to rust. Just walking up the stairs, perhaps whoever did thought "that smells weird..." but likely didn't think anything of it. It's certainly not something you'd expect an untrained nose in their early 20's to immediately say "OMG that's blood - I better check out the house!"

So the two survivors coming upstairs - however it happened - I am certain had their four roommates murdered as the absolute last thing they ever expected to see. Actually, it probably wasn't even last, it was so outside the bounds of reality it didn't even make a list.

 

[JennyM523]

True, we know about the 911 call. What we don't know is what events occurred leading up to the 911 call. Again, I may be wrong, but I don't recall any information released about that.

If I were a college student coming upon the body of one of my roommates, I would probably call friends to ask what to do instead of 911 especially if I thought they were just unconscious. MOO

 

[Wendigo4]

You are supposed to register your vehicle in the state or county that you live in. If you move from one county within a state you are supposed to register it in the new county. When you move from one state to another you are supposed to register it in the new state. States give a certain amount of time that you have to register your vehicle.

I know from experience that military personnel are exempt from this requirement in many states.

 

[ACG2x]

Privacy for severely traumatized people not involved in a crime?

And since the surviving roommates had friends either en route to or at the house when the 911 call was made, all that's going to do is further wild speculation for people who were legit trying to help their traumatized friends.

People asked for years why the full Delphi video/audio that Libby took on her phone wasn't released and kept insisting it was the "key to solving the case". As it turns out, Libby's family heard the full audio and said the parts released were the only ones that were relevant to assisting in helping catch BG.

Same premise here. If the 911 call and information reported therein isn't relevant to getting the public's help in finding who did this, then there's no reason to release it right now other than to satisfy morbid curiosity of internet sleuths and podcasters and give them something else to pick apart and speculate on. I have no idea what could possibly be said on the 911 call that would help the public make a connection that says "Aha - [X] did it!" and provide enough info in a tip to help LE.

 

[ilovewings]

I really feel for the Moscow police. They are now having to spend as much time defending themselves as they are on the investigation.

I could not agree more: last night on Banfield, she said "is this case going cold?"
Seriously? we are society that expects instant results for everything. You cannot call a case cold that is what, 6 weeks old? GMAB.

 

[Which_pancake]

Did LE ever confirm that both survivors were sleeping on the 1st floor? I’m trying to find where that info came from.

I think all LE had said is that the victims were on floors 2 & 3. Even all the statements as to which bedroom belongs to which victim is all speculation. MOO

 

[Emerald1328]

I’ve noticed that several people feel that Kaylee and Maddie were attacked first on the third floor and either Ethan or Xana heard something and went out to investigate it. Whoever it was then encountered the perp and that’s why they were killed. However, the coroner states they were all likely asleep when killed and that statement is included in LE’s press release, which they have said is the only source for official information. I get that “likely” isn’t an absolute, but LE has never used absolutes in this case so I’m inclined to believe that it is something they know with almost certainty. Possibly due to the location of the wounds and any defensive wounds. Maybe the defensive wounds were only the type that would have been caused by one throwing their arms up after being startled awake from being stabbed instead of defensive wounds one might get if being attacked head on in a standing position.

I’m very curious as to why some people have discounted the statement from the coroner and LE that everyone was likely asleep? I am not trying to say those thoughts are ridiculous or invalid at all, I’m just genuinely curious and would love to hear why! Is it because of the word “likely”? Is it because you can’t imagine why/how 4 people in 2 different rooms were attacked without someone becoming aware of the attack? Is it because LE said some had defensive wounds? Is it that you don’t trust/believe LE? Is it that you haven’t read the press release?

Please know that when I use the word “you” it doesn’t mean anyone in particular. Everyone is entitled to their opinion!

https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24891/12-06-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update

 

[ACG2x]

I think all LE had said is that the victims were on floors 2 & 3. Even all the statements as to which bedroom belongs to which victim is all speculation. MOO

Correct - SG has said that MM/KG were on the third floor in the same room and bed so by process of elimination that has led people to assume that XK/EC were the two victims on floor 2. Plus, KG & MM's rooms were on the third floor so that makes sense as does XK's room was on the second floor.

While it hasn't been officially confirmed, the process of elimination here has been relatively easy based on comments SG and other family members have publicly stated.

 

[SRWCF]

its a stranger homicide or they'd have someone. No way after 4 people get slaughtered and so much public attention they're going to wait to arrest. im leaning to stranger only because the two in the basement didnt get touched so the murder probably didnt know that they were down there probably a creepy neighbor or someone in the neighborhood that they didnt know

I'm with you on this one. If the perp is ever caught, I feel 100% when his name is released, it will be someone the internet has never heard of in this case.

 

[OrlandoJames]

I’ve noticed that several people feel that Kaylee and Maddie were attacked first on the third floor and either Ethan or Xana heard something and went out to investigate it. Whoever it was then encountered the perp and that’s why they were killed. However, the coroner states they were all likely asleep when killed and that statement is included in LE’s press release, which they have said is the only source for official information. I get that “likely” isn’t an absolute, but LE has never used absolutes in this case so I’m inclined to believe that it is something they know with almost certainty. Possibly due to the location of the wounds and any defensive wounds. Maybe the defensive wounds were only the type that would have been caused by one throwing their arms up after being startled awake from being stabbed instead of defensive wounds one might get if being attacked head on in a standing position.

I’m very curious as to why some people have discounted the statement from the coroner and LE that everyone was likely asleep? I am not trying to say those thoughts are ridiculous or invalid at all, I’m just genuinely curious and would love to hear why! Is it because of the word “likely”? Is it because you can’t imagine why/how 4 people in 2 different rooms were attacked without someone becoming aware of the attack? Is it because LE said some had defensive wounds? Is it that you don’t trust/believe LE? Is it that you haven’t read the press release?

Please know that when I use the word “you” it doesn’t mean anyone in particular. Everyone is entitled to their opinion!

https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24891/12-06-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update

Good question. There is no evidence whatsoever that the victims on the lower floor disturbed the killer and were murdered to keep them quiet, yet some people seem to strongly favor this theory. The evidence - as we currently know it - suggests the killer entered the second bedroom with the intention to kill more people.

 

[blackbeary]

I think it’s hard to come to conclusions because the public doesn’t have many facts. Do we know for sure how many people were at the house when D and B arrived home earlier than the others? Did someone come to the house to visit and then the residents thought they left the house when in fact they had not left? Do we know for sure what rooms everyone was sleeping? We know Kaylee and Maddie were together from Kaylee’s Dad but we don’t know for sure which room? Which room was Bethany and Dylan in? We have been told downstairs but at this point, was this from LE? Which bedroom downstairs? How many people were in and out of the house following the crime and before LE arrived? I’ve heard so many different accounts that it’s hard to decipher everything!

I agree. The chief said that young officer's, friends and family were at the scene, so I assumed that family possibly meant siblings that lived nearby.
Moo

 

[Nudgee]

This is crazy! This was one of my first thoughts in the very beginning of the case. Seeing as Kaylee's sister called her a Sleuth. I thought maybe she had bad vibes about a boyfriend of a friend or roommate, or maybe helped a friend/roommate through a break up (how many times have women convinced other women to have the strength to leave an abusive relationship?), said girlfriend leaves, and then the boyfriend went on a rampage. The girls all seemed really close where I could totally see them (in my mind), supporting a friend in need. So kind of random that one of my first feelings was actually a true event in another case. But at this point, I thought that would have already been worked through so seems a little deeper.

All just my opinions/thoughts

I agree. This has been my thought from the very beginning of this case and while my thoughts have flip-flopped, I always come back to something like this. I asked in a earlier thread (on Dec 7th) if it was known if KG, MM, & ZK all lived in the house on King Street during the 2021-2022 school year. Someone responded that they could see IG pictures from one of the girls accounts as far back as Oct 2021 which showed that they did (I do not have IG). I do think there was a break-up involved, I also think the perp spent a lot of time in that house in 2021-2022 school year. I also agree that if that is the case, the other room mates were (in the perps mind) a reason or partial reason for the break up. Even if it was only because someone's life may have changed after moving in to the King Street house which resulted in the breakup. The two surviving roommates were new to the King Street house and therefore, spared because they were not there the year prior and what may have happened. It was something ZK's Dad said early on in an interview that started me down this thought process. His interview is in the media thread.

JMO

 

[NuttMegg]

Some were in bed, other(s) weren't.


"Of the four University of Idaho students who were found stabbed to death in a rental house last Sunday, some were killed in their beds, the Latah County coroner told CBS News Friday.

Coroner Cathy Mabbutt would not provide any further details. She noted, however, that earlier media reports stating all four victims had been murdered in their beds were not accurate."

Some of the murdered University of Idaho students were stabbed in their beds, coroner says

According to police, the coroner said all four victims were likely asleep, some had defensive wounds and each was stabbed multiple times.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[LadyBelle]

Agreed - and an actual corpse doesn't start to really have the stench of rotting or the 'death smell' as LE officers have described until at last 24-48 hours after death has occurred. Human blood contains iron and the smell of it has been described as similar to rust. Just walking up the stairs, perhaps whoever did thought "that smells weird..." but likely didn't think anything of it. It's certainly not something you'd expect an untrained nose in their early 20's to immediately say "OMG that's blood - I better check out the house!"

So the two survivors coming upstairs - however it happened - I am certain had their four roommates murdered as the absolute last thing they ever expected to see. Actually, it probably wasn't even last, it was so outside the bounds of reality it didn't even make a list.

Perfectly stated. Thank you!