ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 36

[jcamh]

Maddie: “What did you tell Adam?”
Kaylee: “I told him EVERYTHING.”

Have you ever told someone EVERYTHING and it not been a big deal. If their conversation was benign she would’ve told her what they talked about. To answer with “I told him EVERYTHING”…

In my opinion this is one of the biggest clues we’ve received. It wasn’t released by the MPD either. I don’t think “A” is involved but I wonder about the many calls to “J” that night. Were they calling to check his temperature after Kaylee told “A” , his roommate, EVERYTHING?

Just some thoughts and my opinions…

You have who said these sentences backwards: Kaylee said, "What did you tell Adam?" And Maddie said, "I told him everything."

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

Sadly it's not just crime reporting

Mainstream media operates under speed as a priority vs. accuracy. As long as any rando claims something, they can print it as "source who did not want to be named" and present it as fact.

Spot-on. This is the main reason I rarely ever “watch news media” to obtain information. I much prefer to personally source and read verified news publications, rather than be fed some non-sensical rhetoric spewed by a few talking heads sitting at a table, obsessed with the sound of their own voice. Definitely not. Jmoo

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

"It's definitely an old, creaky house," said Cole Alteneder, who graduated in 2022 and lived in the house during his junior year. "You can't walk up any of the stairs or on any of the floors without everybody in the house knowing it."

Idaho murders: Everybody can hear each others' footsteps in 'creaky' house, former resident says

A University of Idaho graduate who previously lived in the off-campus house where four students were killed is speaking out to ABC News.

abcnews.go.com

Whoa…say what?

 

[CLGM]

IMO the car is likely in a garage or under a tarp.

Also Zillow updated their privacy policy today. It's known that big tech routinely updates privacy policies. IMO maybe Zillow made a few policy changes in this update because photos of the inside of 1122 King Road house were publicly available information prior to the murders. IMO

Zillow privacy policy: Privacy Policy

The pictures of the interior of the house came from Zillow? (Can’t remember and typing from phone while riding on car). Websites collect information of people who visit the website. Would it be granular enough to know who looked at each photo, when, how many times, etc.? Judging by privacy policy, that would be a yes. LE probably has that data dump already from the house. Would that taken a court order to get that from Zillow? Could they get that kind of data for the different SM accounts of the victims? They had to cross-reference it to look for patterns. What a huge undertaking.
ETA: clip of Zillow policy

 

[drmrgrl]

Thanks for sharing! That was beautiful and sad at the same time.IMO

EXCLUSIVE: 'My job was to get these girls home safe.' Private taxi driver who drove Idaho roommates Kaylee and Madison home hours before they were murdered says he is haunted by his role in delivering them to their deaths​

Driver who dropped off Idaho students at murder house breaks silence

Speaking for the first time and exclusively to DailyMail.com, the private taxi driver said he can't recall anything that was 'amiss' the night he took Kaylee Goncalves and Madison Mogen home.

www.dailymail.co.uk

IMO, he will suffer with guilt for a long time, but it isn’t necessary. He didn’t do anything

 

[jumpingjackflash]

Yes I agree, well said! This is exactly what I think too.
It makes sense that the word rage implies crime of passion, but rage is of the moment.
This wasn’t an emotion of the moment, or a reaction, it was long held hatred and planning.
So who hates And what do they hate?
They could hate what they
- want but don’t know how to get- envy, jealousy
- misunderstand or fear due to ignorance, culture, religion- bigotry
- see in themselves that is flawed, shameful- projection
- cannot defend against that makes them feel vulnerable- revenge
- What else?

JMO

- what they are excluded from / who they are or feel rejected by - shame/embarrassment/humiliation

Shame and the Serial Killer

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

The previous Zillow privacy policy does not mention "law enforcement". The policy released today does:

"Legal Obligations and Rights: We may disclose your personal data to third parties, such as legal advisors and law enforcement"

Link to March 7, 2022 privacy policy:

Privacy Policy

Effective Date: January 2023 When you use Zillow Group services to find, buy, rent, or sell your home, get a mortgage, or connect to a real estate pro, we know you’re trusting us with your data. We also know we have a responsibility to respect your privacy, and we work hard to do just that...

www.zillowgroup.com

Link to current privacy policy released today:

Privacy Policy

Effective Date: January 2023 When you use Zillow Group services to find, buy, rent, or sell your home, get a mortgage, or connect to a real estate pro, we know you’re trusting us with your data. We also know we have a responsibility to respect your privacy, and we work hard to do just that...

www.zillowgroup.com

Ctrl + F to victory.

Keep in mind that photos of the inside of the 1122 King Road house were publicly available information prior to the murders.

Well noted earlier across the threads. With Zillow and Redfin all over the web touting interior home photos, not to mention every rental advert ever published - one needn’t physically visit the home, to gain full understanding of the layout. We live in a different time. One with a very thin veil of privacy due to the advancements of technology. Jmoo

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Interesting change in the template for the Daily MPD update. I have been checking daily for any editorial changes and now it's happened. Here is 12-20:

https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24978/12-20-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update

It's much shorter than any previous day's update and language that was in most of the previous updates is gone. Here's 12-19 as an example:

https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24943/12-19-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update

Now, this could be just a fluke, but I doubt it. Some of us were discussing the "re-interviewing" process and the fact that Mrs G mentioned that some people were cleared too early (SG mentioned it as well). We discussed it briefly a couple of threads ago that if MPD wanted to walk back some of the "clearings," it would have to remove all of the people they listed, otherwise it would be obvious which person was being put back into the pool of possible POI's.

No one was cleared, the language was "not believed to be involved at this time." (emphasis mine),

Now the update/daily statement leaves off that whole section, with no mention of anyone "not believed to be involved."

Again, could just be a fluke, but I am guessing that as they have interviewed over 200 people, LE's picture of what happened is much sharper. A is mentioned as cooperating, btw.

I also believe it's an open question as to where everyone started out sleeping on Nov 12, in that house, as well as how many people might have been there during that evening. While it is true that *one* reporter "confirmed with police" where people were sleeping - how was it even known back then? That was the first week of this investigation. That was before we all saw the 9-1 body cam video (and I doubt that MPD personnel remembered to review that video back in Week 1).

So there's movement in this case. Maybe tomorrow the "not believed to be involved" list will be back.

IDK. As always, your post is impeccably done and thought-provoking, but I question this only because they removed three pages, including the map and other details. I hope LE reads here and adds some of the content back so we can tell what's truly missing. IMO it's not one of the people listed, but I know I have zero clue, and you have much more info /experience, so hat tip

 

[drmrgrl]

Huh? What do you mean?

I am going to have to seriously think about how I am going to reply to this.IMO

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

Thanks for sharing! That was beautiful and sad at the same time.IMO

IMO, he will suffer with guilt for a long time, but it isn’t necessary. He didn’t do anything

Yet, in actuality…he did DO something. He transported them home safely. He had no way of knowing anything differently. He should feel good in that sense. Jmoo

 

[AngTxGal]

This kind of brings up something I've wondered about ever since these murders occurred....Any time I have ever had roommates in my life, I have locked my bedroom door if a boyfriend stayed over with me. Not to be crass, but isn't that normal?

You are not alone in your thinking, yes I would assume X would lock the door.
Problem is, the bathroom is in the hall, so have to exit to go pee. Guys can lack modesty and run back and forth to the bathroom not fully clothed, and end up leaving the bedroom door unlocked. Some couples would go elsewhere for more privacy, that could account for the missing time for X and E.
Some guys got up hungry, they would make coffee and breakfast for everyone.
Yes, it entered my mind no only that the door could be locked or not, and also that X and E could be clothed, or not, and that E may typically get up early, or not.

What a waste of young lives
JMO

 

[maskedwoman]

Do you think the LE citations or the reputation of the house being a “ party house”had anything to do with it?

I just have no understanding of greek life, or college party life, so I would be 100% guessing. I'm 60 and I was floored that there was a party going on when none of the residents was even there, and another poster thought it was hilarious that anyone even thought that was strange. Clearly, I am not the right demographic to draw conclusions on that situation. LOL

I will say that anywhere you have a mix of people and personalities, I think there is the potential for a conflict serious enough to end in murder. I would be shocked to learn that it was someone from the neighborhood pissed off about the parties. I would have expected more escalation between calling the police to complain about noise and murder. Maybe there has been more escalation and we just don't know it. But I would also think calling the police repeatedly about the noise and then killing them is a great way to make yourself an early suspect.

 

[Vivyinsect]

"It's definitely an old, creaky house," said Cole Alteneder, who graduated in 2022 and lived in the house during his junior year. "You can't walk up any of the stairs or on any of the floors without everybody in the house knowing it."

Idaho murders: Everybody can hear each others' footsteps in 'creaky' house, former resident says

A University of Idaho graduate who previously lived in the off-campus house where four students were killed is speaking out to ABC News.

abcnews.go.com

Creaky floors can be easily fixed. I’ve seen a couple nails hush a stair that was Addam’s Family level squeaky.
I am, however curious about the updates performed over the years. It’s said to have a new roof system, and the layout is strange. Was it at one time two separate structures?

 

[drmrgrl]

Yes. He is most assuredly a “Hunter” in every sense of the word. Predatory. Cunning. Sneaky. Bone-chilling by all accounts. Stealth. Silent. Nightmarishly Driven. JMOO.

IMO and those are his GOOD POINTS

 

[thx4_medic_Babby]

Sorry if this has already been shared:

“University of Idaho professor sues internet sleuth for defamation”​

University of Idaho professor sues internet sleuth for defamation

They should also face punishment for formulating their conclusion without knowing (at the very least, discounting) the happenings of E/X that night, IMO.

 

[crimesnooper]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

After catching up this morning, I'm struggling with how some posters use the rage killing. Some of us seem to mean that something happened earlier in the evening and it enraged this person so much they stalked them back home, waited an extended period of time until the house quieted down, then entered intending to to kill everyone in the house.

To me that's cold and calculating. Someone in a true rage couldn't possibly remain inactive for that long. Legally, a crime of passion is one that occurs during the "heat of passion" or as a fairly immediate response to a provocation. Just like road rage is an immediate reaction to something that happens to you on the road. I also think someone in a rage would have a hard time sustaining that rage during the time required to kill 4 people on two different levels of the house. That took a lot of physical work and IMO would have burned through the rage.

This person isn't a serial killer, so far as we know, because being a serial killer means you have killed on multiple occasions, and we have no evidence of that thus far. A spree killer means the murderer killed multiple people at more than one location. No current evidence of this either.

It does fits the legal definition of a mass murder, which is killing 4 or more people in the same location during a single period of time. Mass murderer is a very jarring term, but it does seem to be correct.

I did some reading this morning and found that mass murderers often operate off hatred rather than rage. Hatred against a group that mistreated them, that they disapprove of in general, or a group that excluded them. Hitler hated Jews. The Walmart manager hated his employees. Dylan Roof hated black people. There are other motivations, for sure, but they all seemed to be deeply rooted motivations that allowed for planning rather than impulsive actions. I watched an American Monster episode where a woman left her husband and weeks later he killed her mother and grandparents, and shot her brother 12 times. His motivation was to punish her for leaving him. He didn't shoot her. He wanted her to suffer the loss of everyone she loved.

The more I think about it, the less it makes sense to me that the killer came to kill one and the others were any sort of collateral damage. Why not just choose a different time and place rather than risk one person getting away and raising the alarm? I agree there had to be an inciting event, but I don't think this was a crime of passion. To me, at least so far, it seems more like other mass murders, where the killer has an issue with the group as a whole.

Thanks for reading.

The short answer is: the anger was building and reached a point of no return towards one target.
This was not,. IMO, a rational act,.
I'm not convinced the killer had made his final decision to kill until he was actually in the house

 

[PrairieWind]

I stated early in this investigation that a stock model year picture of a vehicle is not a lead that should released to the public, and ask for help locating the vehicle. I believe the owner of the crashed car found in OR would agree with me. I believe all owners of Elantra in the Moscow vicinity would agree. It is dangerous, and casts a wide net of suspicion upon innocent people. LE should release the video you have of the car, an identifying marker, or just keep it to yourself. IMO

Release of information is crucial to solving murders, and LE strategy of total withholding is harming the case. IMO

I don't understand your reasoning. The police have said they are looking for a white Elantra, certain years. They perhaps don't have a good photo of the exact car they are looking for. They release a stock photo so people know. How does that put any more suspicion on innocent people than an actual blurry photo? LE needs some public assistance here, and it is not unreasonable to expect the public to act responsibly.

 

[layer]

Sorry if this has already been shared:

“University of Idaho professor sues internet sleuth for defamation”​

University of Idaho professor sues internet sleuth for defamation

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
This is why I won't go near those rumor mills. I have heard people complaining about the moderation on here but that's what keeps us safe.

 

[FeistyCat1976]

They should also face punishment for formulating their conclusion without knowing (at the very least, discounting) the happenings of E/X that night, IMO.

And this is partly the why around all the Websleuths' rules. It's to protect us and the site from venturing down a path that can harm others, ourselves and the site.

 

[smokeybandit]

What I want to know is how did the unsub know where the victims live?

Did the unsub meet the victims IRL for their very first interaction?
Is it possible the unsub did not meet them IRL first?
Did the unsub interact with the victims online first?
Did the victims make their address publicly available on the internet through social media?