ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 36

[drmrgrl]

I can try to find it, it was posted earlier on, but likely buried by now with all of these posts.

The suspect could also respond negatively i.e. suicide, go out in a blast killing more, even deeper hiding, target for hurt friends/family. All these things together makes me think they won't. If so would be abnormal, Totally IMO.

IMO, I think it was a first time killer and I would be willing to bet that when caught, he is going to cry.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Next time I decide to rob a bank I’ll be sure to contact you, lol.
My thoughts in going south was to avoid hwy cameras near Moscow thinking they would not cast a net as wide as down to Genesee. There is also a reservation east for Nez Perce.
Pullman and crossing state lines brings in possible LE inconvenience regarding jurisdiction, that kind of inconvenience used to be helpful to perps, I assume it is still to some degree.
I keep thinking this perp resided nearby and had to go back home that night to blend back into life, they work or live in Moscow so that Is where they gained first contact.
In my imagined scenario they ‘met’ the girls through one or more of the places they frequented- home, Univ of Idaho, Sigma Chi, Mad Greek, Corner Club, or GrubTruck.
With names they could follow them on social media to ‘visit’, figured out where they lived and had kept an eye on the place off and on for some time.

JMO-

okay, deal on the bank robbery! sounds like you're about as likely as I am to turn to a life of crime lol.

IMO, heading to WA brought another bonus for the killer, too, in the form of greater protections re expectation of privacy. No DUI or other road blocks, and more limitations re auto searches (the Thornton exception doesn't apply in WA). Just a number of reasons for this guy to head to WA.

If I were betting on a home, sweet, home for this guy, I would not pick Moscow, though I know everyone disagrees with me. IMO another college town where he could easily access Moscow makes sense to me. IMO it's quite likely that he is associated with a college/university, and may even have ties to Moscow, graduated from there? IDK. JMO. But I think he put distance between location of crime and home. It would also make it more difficult to find him, potentially imo.

Thornton v. United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

State v. Snapp, 174 Wn.2d 177, 275 P.3d 289, 2012 Wash. LEXIS 293, 174 Wn.2d 177, 275 P.3d 289, 2012 Wash. LEXIS 293
edited to add this from Snapp
¶2 In the consolidated cases before us, the issue we must decide is whether an equivalent to Gant's second exception, referred to here as the Thornton 1 exception, applies under article I, section 7 of the Washington State Constitution. We conclude that no such exception is permissible under article I, section 7.

 

[drmrgrl]

Happy Holidays to all websleuths/moderators and a joyous New Year to all.

 

[Kittycat40]

Merry Christmas to all websleuths/moderators and a joyous New Year to all.

 

[Celsial]

Yes, you're right, I guess it wasn't all that long ago, and the house didn't change all that much in that time period. What he confirms for me is that the tenants on the upper floors heard noise within the house from others on a regular basis, and learned to block it out. The killer must have made noise in that creaky house, but the renters had learned to disregard noises, is what he suggests. The lower floor was different being built against the hill.

Idaho murders: Footsteps can be heard on 'every floor,' former tenant says​

"It's a very creaky, old house," said Cole Alteneder, who graduated in 2022 and lived at 1122 King Road his junior year. "You can hear the footsteps on every floor."

[...]

Tenants were used to the noises and learned to tune them out, he added.

A former first-floor tenant previously told Fox News Digital that he could barely hear activity on the second and third floors due to the unusual layout of the house, which is built on the slope of a hill.

Alteneder said if the tenant had the first-floor bedroom directly under the living room and the living room wasn't being used, this would make sense.

The King Road home is on a cul-de-sac known as "fratlantis" due to its proximity to fraternity row, said the former student who now works as a real estate agent in Newberg, Oregon. BBM

On top of being used to the noises, the roommates could have also had ear buds or plugs in. When I was in college I always slept with ear buds in to block out the noises of my roommates.

 

[ktm44]

IMO it appears the downstairs tenants slept through it all and no mention of any cameras inside the house. Might have, could have, but it seems there were no cameras in the house. We don't know for sure about the cameras but has been stated many times the downstairs residents didn't know anything was wrong until almost noon of the day of the murders.
We don't even know if the perp wore a mask or some other disguise.
Just my 2 cents.

It has never been stated what the survivors did or didn’t see or know other than they seemingly summoned others and one of their cell phones was used for a 911 call.

They certainly may have slept through the whole thing or they may have provided quite a bit of information in their statements but as key witnesses, none will be disclosed to the public.

 

[Taffy550]

Agree with your thoughts, especially on the risks of a knife.
I believe when autopsy comes out to the public we will find out blunt force trauma was involved to subdue the victims.

JMO

I completely agree. I think this person hit the vics to incapacitate and then murdered them. I think the vic that was found (unconscious) was the last person to die. I believe from the phots of crime investigators
he tried to get the killer out of the house. Chasing after and perished Jmoo There is no science to back me up,

 

[ralyla]

Hoping that the perp(s) will be apprehended soon. IMO LE is onto someone and is just piecing together enough evidence for a solid conviction. The fact there is no reward money indicates IMO that they know someone.

I'm also beginning to wonder if the Elantra is a red herring, something to make those who claim they have alibis sweat.

Again MOO.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Wow, that works smoothly but what about timing?
When would this encounter at the door take place?
If there was an after party with the survivors and X and E then people would be moving about at the house between 10-3 so that timing would work.

JMO

I don't understand. What encounter at the door? If the door was unlocked, the killer just walks in. If the girls let the dog out, they just walk in then when the girls step away to use the rest room themselves perhaps.

Are there possible holes in that theory, sure, but it could work so I don't include it out.

 

[AngTxGal]

okay, deal on the bank robbery! sounds like you're about as likely as I am to turn to a life of crime lol.

IMO, heading to WA brought another bonus for the killer, too, in the form of greater protections re expectation of privacy. No DUI or other road blocks, and more limitations re auto searches (the Thornton exception doesn't apply in WA). Just a number of reasons for this guy to head to WA.

If I were betting on a home, sweet, home for this guy, I would not pick Moscow, though I know everyone disagrees with me. IMO another college town where he could easily access Moscow makes sense to me. IMO it's quite likely that he is associated with a college/university, and may even have ties to Moscow, graduated from there? IDK. JMO. But I think he put distance between location of crime and home. It would also make it more difficult to find him, potentially imo.

Thornton v. United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

State v. Snapp, 174 Wn.2d 177, 275 P.3d 289, 2012 Wash. LEXIS 293, 174 Wn.2d 177, 275 P.3d 289, 2012 Wash. LEXIS 293

Lots of things are still on my bucket list, prison not being one of them lol

I too can see college town connections for this perp, part of me thinks he is a student but not of typical age, grad school, or employed by university in some way. This means he could be doing his school online and not be on campus, it also means if he could teach from home.
Distance between the crime makes sense, but I see him as a voyeur/ stalker type spending a great deal of time casing this house And building on his obsession.
His schedule would follow the school schedule.

Idaho has a great amount of forestry land, but survivalist in the winter would imply much more planning that I had considered for this length of time. Over the past six weeks the weather has changed a great deal- if he intended on survivalist it has become difficult. Those forestry areas would be a place to stash a weapon, kill kit, trinkets.
Relatives, travel for the holidays, the reservation, hiding during December until school resumes.
He is somewhere and after the New Year if that somewhere involves family and a job, he would have to blend back into life again.

JMO

 

[rahod1]

Hi all, long time lurker, first time poster.

Finally, if it there was any sort of planning going into this attack and the perp was absolutely decided on using a knife then, again, surely he'd realize that it's hard to subdue two people fighting for life with just a bladed weapon.

Snipped for brevity.

Bingo. This was a killer CONFIDENT in using a knife and it was paramount in the method of killing. They wanted the *intimacy* of the kill (up close and personal). This doesn't mean the killer had a personal vendetta with the victims, but that they had a need to envelope themselves in the process of the kill. Chilling stuff. Someone like this won't be satisfied with *one and done*.....the urge will reawaken...as it has done in the past. MOO.

 

[everybodhi]

The article that I read originally showed 4 different segments of the video separately so there are definitely shortened clips out there.

Moscow Police
King Road Homicides
Rumor Control
As required by law, several Moscow Police body camera videos were requested and released through the public records request process. The original release of any video by this agency is the official version, and circulated videos cannot be verified as authentic or unedited.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Claim his "work" was unprofessional, amateurish, sloppy and has the ear marks of someone with low IQ and he'll react, perhaps by saying how wrong such descriptions are to friends.

Glad to see someone say this. I thought that is what the 'sloppy' thing was about, LE taunting a bit jmo.

Agree with your thoughts, especially on the risks of a knife.
I believe when autopsy comes out to the public we will find out blunt force trauma was involved to subdue the victims.

JMO

I'm betting on good old-fashioned duct tape pre-cut and slapped on quickly, and a quick kill stab, plus more. I don't think a little duct tape would count as bound and gagged, but sure could silence a scream. One stab to the chest, however, and no noise.

Distance between the crime makes sense, but I see him as a voyeur/ stalker type spending a great deal of time casing this house And building on his obsession.

DITTO Exactly. I think he found many ways to indulge his obsession and had easy access to Moscow. IMO.

I also think that his sexual pleasure probably came after the fact, probably in his alone time, maybe with trinkets, etc. that's just JMO but he could even have worn a light with camera to record the action. jmo

 

[sleuththesloth]

Some theories not facts (just some thoughts) - moo:

1.the perp swung by the back entrance after the victims returned and was welcomed / let in as the housemates were still up all together eating their food etc (or returned with X and E) … this doesn’t mean he was part of the inner circle and could have easily been someone they only just met / met recently / was known to one of their other friends

2. Perp could have drugged them enough to make them drowsy but not knocked them out during this bit of the evening, making the crime easier to commit / or as someone else just suggested they were hit in their sleep first

3. Victims might have thought he’d left when they went to bed but he didn’t / was offered a place to crash

4.I read someone else’s post about this being a mass murder and thought that was strong, a small scale version of a mass shooting, albeit a different weapon. Bit of an outcast/loner, he went with a personal vendetta, disliked something about this group, and it was unbeknown to the victims (although not sure how that explains away the other housemates surviving that night but possibly was disturbed)

Thoughts/ideas not facts above.

 

[Helechawagirl]

O

Can you link something factual to support this? The data that I've looked at doesn't seem that way and the original article that you linked was a handful of crimes in over a 20 year period. You may be right but I'm just interested in statistics or news articles that actually prove what you're saying.

Home • Idaho Capital Sun

idahocapitalsun.com

O

Home • Idaho Capital Sun

idahocapitalsun.com

Here’s one article about extremists groups in Idaho and how they are on the rise again. This may not be an approved source so I’m not gonna summarize the article. Worth a read though. IMO

 

[Trouble1321075]

Yes, you're right, I guess it wasn't all that long ago, and the house didn't change all that much in that time period. What he confirms for me is that the tenants on the upper floors heard noise within the house from others on a regular basis, and learned to block it out. The killer must have made noise in that creaky house, but the renters had learned to disregard noises, is what he suggests. The lower floor was different being built against the hill.

Idaho murders: Footsteps can be heard on 'every floor,' former tenant says​

"It's a very creaky, old house," said Cole Alteneder, who graduated in 2022 and lived at 1122 King Road his junior year. "You can hear the footsteps on every floor."

[...]

Tenants were used to the noises and learned to tune them out, he added.

A former first-floor tenant previously told Fox News Digital that he could barely hear activity on the second and third floors due to the unusual layout of the house, which is built on the slope of a hill.

Alteneder said if the tenant had the first-floor bedroom directly under the living room and the living room wasn't being used, this would make sense.

The King Road home is on a cul-de-sac known as "fratlantis" due to its proximity to fraternity row, said the former student who now works as a real estate agent in Newberg, Oregon. BBM

What I got from that also is that someone named Cole lived there when he was a junior. If he graduated in 2022 that would mean he lived there last year 2021. Was it a CoEd house in 21? Did all those girls just move in over the summer/fall?

I bring this up because something the police have been unwilling to commit an answer for is whether a person was the target or the location.

 

[blackbeary]

Snipped for brevity.

Bingo. This was a killer CONFIDENT in using a knife and it was paramount in the method of killing. They wanted the *intimacy* of the kill (up close and personal). This doesn't mean the killer had a personal vendetta with the victims, but that they had a need to envelope themselves in the process of the kill. Chilling stuff. Someone like this won't be satisfied with *one and done*.....the urge will reawaken...as it has done in the past. MOO.

I searched ' How to become confident with a knife

I searched ' How to be Confident with a Knife ' It only shows cooking skills. I know about trap shooting, because I love to watch it, but I've never seen sport courses to learn knife skills in combat , killing, type situation , how does one train or practice to gain confidence, and take out your opponent/ victims. Can anyone explain please? I'm hear to learn from the wise variety of guests on Websleuths.

 

[blackbeary]

It sometimes surprises me how, in almost every case I have followed here, many people are completely unaware of a major crime that happened in their own town. This case has been covered by all of the major networks, updated regularly, morning shows and evening news, plus the all news networks, but an increasingly large number of people, especially younger people, do not get news from tv. They tend to get it from social media, or other internet sites. There is no shortage of coverage of this case. JMO

ABC World News Tonight has something on the case whenever there are updates.
However, I noticed that News Nation hasn't been putting on their Missing in America segment, since Gabby Petito's case slowed down. A&E still broadcast missing, as does Reelze.

 

[NCgardener]

Yes, I agree that it may turn out some/all of these other cases are related. But officially we have the current status of LE saying unrelated.

Also, on so many threads I see people confusing the terminology between serial murder and mass murder, and we've been through that on this thread too, was trying to prevent another go-round.

This is Fry's most recent quote I can find about the other stabbings:

"We’re looking at every avenue and we have other agencies reaching out to us with other cases and stuff that we are going to follow up on those.”

Mom of slain Oregon man Travis Juetten speaks out after cops eye link to University of Idaho murders

Travis Juetten, 26, died while trying to fight a masked intruder who also attacked his 24-year-old wife as they were sleeping in their Silverton home at 3 a.m, police said.

nypost.com

 

[everybodhi]

It sometimes surprises me how, in almost every case I have followed here, many people are completely unaware of a major crime that happened in their own town. This case has been covered by all of the major networks, updated regularly, morning shows and evening news, plus the all news networks, but an increasingly large number of people, especially younger people, do not get news from tv. They tend to get it from social media, or other internet sites. There is no shortage of coverage of this case. JMO

I know people who access absolutely no news anywhere, they only watch certain shows on TV, some play video games almost exclusively.
The numbers have risen in recent years but still, only 2-4 million people watch network news and another 1.5 million watch cable news out of 265 million adults over 18 in the US. That’s 259 million people not paying attention to TV news, best case scenario.
TV news in the U.S. - statistics
The internet filters what you see based on your previous clicks, on social media, news won’t show up unless you’ve shown enough interest to get it through your algorithm. And if you primarily click on political news that’s what you’ll see, true crime news will be virtually nonexistent.
I was visiting a 60 year old friend in FL and she knew nothing about a current huge national news story. She got the Tampa paper delivered everyday, I asked how she missed the headlines, she said “I don’t read it I just get it for the grocery coupons”.
For news junkies like me, it’s shocking how many people just don’t want to know what’s going on in the world and I suspect those who follow true crime news are even a much smaller demographic.