ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 36

[layer]

I linked to the only confirmed story of footprints remotely 'related' to the case. However I have since gone back through the thread and realised the single print being referred to was likely rumour based. My bad.

How dare you try to be helpful!
Seriously, I remembered that story too. Thanks for straightening it out!

 

[Trino]

To my thinking this was a sudden rage, and not preplanned, which is why LE said it was sloppy, with a lot of mistakes.

To my thinking this was a sudden rage, and not preplanned, which is why LE said it was sloppy, with a lot of mistakes.

So, do we believe the killer walked around with a KaBar serrated knife, which he finally found a reason to use? He had to get the knife from somewhere before the attack, plus waiting until they were asleep. That is planning not sudden rage. As to sloppy, it couldn't have been too sloppy. LE and FBI haven't a clue to identity.

 

[AngTxGal]

At the risk of beating a dead horse, this is what was said in the Lawrence Jones interview:

LJ: We keep hearing this name Jack and phone calls going back and forth. Can you tell us anything about that?

KG: We love Jack. Absolutely love Jack. We stand behind Jack one thousand percent. Jack was Kaylee's boyfriend for many years. They just recently broke up, there was no animosity at all. It was a breakup on Kaylee's point. It was not... they still talked every single day. Kaylee just thought she needed a little break. They were on the mend of getting back together. Kaylee talked to Jack the whole time she was here for that week and a half.

SG: One of her messages, one of her last messages, she reached out to Jack and said Jack, get back to me. You can't... she goes we share a dog together, which they did. She's like, you need to reach out to me.

KG: Please come over. She was wanting Jack to come over. Jack is not... they're wasting their time with Jack. And Jack is just as distraught as we are. Jack is our family. Jack is one hundred percent, two thousand percent our family. And Jack is with us, and we stand behind him, one hundred percent we are supporting him and we know in our hearts and our minds and our souls, to the depths of our souls, Jack is hurting. Kaylee and Jack would have eventually been married. They would have eventually been married and they would have had children together. So to say ex-boyfriend... it was Kaylee just being a brat, you know being like I just need a break. But Jack was in her heart and they were close to getting back together. And that was just Kaylee being Kaylee. So absolutely Jack is...

SG: We don't think he's a suspect.

KG: At all.

Appreciate the posting!
Sometimes a significant other fits perfectly on paper and with families.
Families follow our lead and fall in love with them just as we do. Love and commitment may change and we move on, but our family maintains a relationship.

K took a job out of state, to me that signifies a readiness to move forWard. Maybe with or maybe without JD. Idk
IMO if someone was hurt here, it was JD
Men react and handle hurt differently than young women.
Typically they don’t talk, they hold it in.

For people considering JD out of his league with K, they are seeing the boy and not the man.
He is a mechanical engineering major. That is a rigorous pursuit.
Near Thanksgiving profs give a third exam, the last exam prior to the final exam.
He may have been hold up studying for days, exhausted, with projects and exams soon heading into finals.
I don‘t know him, but my dad, brother, and sig other are engineers- so I’m biased.
We do know…
- K and M called JD that night
- the timing of the calls were not long before their deaths
- JD did not answer the phone.
I cannot imagine his sense of responsibility, What if he had answered the phone? He likely has played that out a million times and it will weigh on him for the rest of his life.

JMO

 

[layer]

So, do we believe the killer walked around with a KaBar serrated knife, which he finally found a reason to use? He had to get the knife from somewhere before the attack. That is pre-planning. As to sloppy, it couldn't have been too sloppy. LE and FBI haven't a clue to identity.

Agree in part.
First: There is no indication that the knife was serrated.
Second: That it was a KA-BAR (only the suggestion based on the statement of a sales clerk that said he was questioned by investigators).
Third: We really have no way of knowing whether or not LE has a clue who is responsible, only that charges haven't been brought yet.
But I do agree that it was planned.

JMHO

 

[ilovewings]

I’m new to much of this, can I ask who Scott Peterson is, please?

Incidentally, that article you’ve posted is spot on. However, many things don’t add up.

1. Kaylee had ended the relationship 3 weeks previously and they were still on good terms.

2. I noticed when he spoke at the memorial he frequently blew out deep puffs of air. I know 100% that people do that when they’re totally grief stricken.

3. Why would he kill 3 other people too? Besides the risk of being overcome (say, for example, one of the 6 occupants crept behind him and smashed a heavy steel pan/poker over his head) why kill all the others too? He had plenty of opportunity in the future to kill Kaylee where she may have never been found.

The only one gesture he did which seemed strange, but it could have been nerves/grief, he didn’t seem to look up at the people when he was speaking. But then everyone reacts different to trauma and grief.

I did not post the article, I was only responding to it: I cannot believe someone on this planet does not know who Scott Peterson is (not being critical, just surprised). Scott is in prison for life after being convicted in 2004 ( think that is the year) for murdering his wife Laci Peterson. They resided in Modesto California. You can google this case. It is extremely well known and garnered huge attention when it occurred.

 

[10ofRods]

How academic is the University of Idaho? I know that some universities are
more sports oriented than others. In other words is UI a academic oriented
university or more oriented towards sports? This would be important in discernment of the temperature of competitiveness.

I don't think one can put U of I into the sports category, although obviously it supports its athletics. University of Idaho is Idaho's best university for academics, IMO. It is ranked on a list of "good value" schools and offers comprehensive programs leading to graduate degrees. It cannot be classified as highly academic IMO because it does not have some of the programs one expects at a top tier academic university. For example, it doesn't have a medical school (but it does have a college of law)l It has many academic strengths in environmental science, agricultural majors, business and accounting.

For me, one of its defining features is its continued embrace of Greek life, which IME, does lead to partying.

It's way more of a party school than where I teach OR the universities I attended (there was a dry zone around my undergraduate university and that still exists). I was at another major university where all sororities and fraternities had been moved/kicked off campus over time, so that no university property had any houses. That meant there was a fairly large party zone in a neighborhood immediately adjacent to campus. Where I teach now, all frat and sorority housing must be off campus, membership is dwindling, it's not so cheap to live there as it was 30 years ago and local ordinances permit the degree of partying that apparently goes down at U of I. I have been reading their daily police log, as have many others, and am amazed at how busy they keep police with drinking-related calls, it seems like a lot for such a small town - but with 10,000 students, it may be normal (haven't compared it to other schools that allow frats on campus).

 

[Dotta]

I did not post the article, I was only responding to it: I cannot believe someone on this planet does not know who Scott Peterson is (not being critical, just surprised). Scott is in prison for life after being convicted in 2004 ( think that is the year) for murdering his wife Laci Peterson. They resided in Modesto California. You can google this case. It is extremely well known and garnered huge attention when it occurred.

I have never heard of this guy!

But I live on another continent

 

[AngTxGal]

So, do we believe the killer walked around with a KaBar serrated knife, which he finally found a reason to use? He had to get the knife from somewhere before the attack, plus waiting until they were asleep. That is planning not sudden rage. As to sloppy, it couldn't have been too sloppy. LE and FBI haven't a clue to identity.

We know there was a knife involved, we don‘t know if it was serrated or if it was a KaBar

We know he used it, we don’t know if he had a sheath or held it the whole time, or it was pre-stashed in the house, or had a kill kit hidden in the yard, or it was in the house already

We know that the knife has not been found- we don’t know if he took it with him, hid it in the house or stashed it in the yard, tossed it somewhere, sold it, or destroyed it

Agree it was pre planned, or an alignment of the stars and luck that is highly unlikely

Don’t agree it was ‘sloppy’ as I haven’t a clue what that means in this context
We know he hasn’t been caught
We know this was a brutal stabbing of four victims
Can a stabbing be done with precision, cleanliness, less sloppy? I’m not sure it can

JMO

 

[accordn2me]

Just for the sake of clarity...

This is from the latest press release on 12/19:
There have been numerous media inquiries about a 1999 double stabbing in Pullman, Washington, and the 2021 double stabbing (with one death) in Salem, Oregon. While these cases share similarities with the King Street homicides, there does not appear to be any evidence to support the cases are related.

There is no reference at all made to the June 13, 2020 Sandra Ladd murder in Washougal, Washington, which also occured on the 13th, between 3:00 and 4:00am.

Saying there does not appear to be any evidence to support the cases are related is not the same as saying that the cases have been specifically declared unrelated.

I still see a pattern here:

Sandra Ladd - June 13, 2020
Travis & Jamilyn Juetten - August 13, 2021
XEM&K - November 13, 2022

Likely attacked in bed, while asleep, with a knife. All the incidents happened between 3 and 4 a.m. on the 13th of the month, 14 & 15 months apart.

What do you think it might take for LE to determine that these cases are related?

What if DNA wasn’t a possibility for whatever reason?

Would LE give more weight (if they’ve even given any) to the numbers pattern that we see?

The other day, there was a discussion about the jurisdiction of the FBI. Seeing how these murders are under the jurisdictions of the respective LE Departments determined by the locale of the crimes, it seems like it would be necessary for the FBI to step in in order to have all of the information of each LE Dept consolidated for a proper delve into the details.

 

[SMK777]

We know there was a knife involved, we don‘t know if it was serrated or if it was a KaBar

We know he used it, we don’t know if he had a sheath or held it the whole time, or it was pre-stashed in the house, or had a kill kit hidden in the yard, or it was in the house already

We know that the knife has not been found- we don’t know if he took it with him, hid it in the house or stashed it in the yard, tossed it somewhere, sold it, or destroyed it

Agree it was pre planned, or an alignment of the stars and luck that is highly unlikely

Don’t agree it was ‘sloppy’ as I haven’t a clue what that means in this context
We know he hasn’t been caught
We know this was a brutal stabbing of four victims
Can a stabbing be done with precision, cleanliness, less sloppy? I’m not sure it can

JMO

Never knew what to make of this, because over 40 days and the “mess” hasn’t led to a POI, much less an arrest.​

Univ. of Idaho killer was ‘sloppy,’ left ‘mess’ of evidence, victim’s family says​

Univ. of Idaho killer was ‘sloppy,’ left ‘mess’ of evidence, victim’s family says

The investigation into the brutal stabbing deaths of four University of Idaho students has stalled one week after the unspeakable tragedy due to the massive “mess” of evidence left behi…

nypost.com

 

[AngTxGal]

How academic is the University of Idaho? I know that some universities are
more sports oriented than others. In other words is UI a academic oriented
university or more oriented towards sports? This would be important in discernment of the temperature of competitiveness.

At least in Texas, Universities are not one thing- academic or athletic
Look at the number of Masters and PhD programs and that will tell you about grant money, academic rigor, and research focus
Tier 1 research institutions can have competitive sports teams

As my experience is with Texas universities, and Texas is a football state, I don’t know if this holds true for other states

JMO

 

[Arkay]

For people considering JD out of his league with K, they are seeing the boy and not the man.
He is a mechanical engineering major. That is a rigorous pursuit.

Just my opinion on this——as I’m an extrovert but with nerdy tendencies, my read on this is that JD has a nerdy appearance, and that Kaylee as she was now would seem the type to date the BMOC or captain of the football team.

But they’ve been together for five years, so Kaylee was 16 when they started. She didn’t look like she looked now. Now she had what appears to be bleached blonde hair with extensions, false eyelashes, a lot of makeup, and her own style of dressing.

A look I feel she and Maddie were cultivating as they morphed from high school to college.

IMO only and just speculating, it seems to me that JD and Kaylee were first loves and that makes for a very deep bond.

When he was in HS he was not yet an engineering major, but he must have had a brilliant mind that led him to choose such a rigorous course of study.

She may have outgrown him, she may instead have missed him, they may have grown old together or they may have moved on separately.

What I do not think is that he should be subjected in any way to suspicion and gossip. He has been deemed by LE as not a suspect and KG’s family trusts him completely.

I agree that he will be haunted forever wondering if answering the phone could have changed the outcome.

JMO

 

[TooMuchGun]

our killer wasn't some genius. Hes a stupid bumpkin who got lucky. If he left a footprint its really careless and sloppy moo

 

[10ofRods]

We know there was a knife involved, we don‘t know if it was serrated or if it was a KaBar

We know he used it, we don’t know if he had a sheath or held it the whole time, or it was pre-stashed in the house, or had a kill kit hidden in the yard, or it was in the house already

We know that the knife has not been found- we don’t know if he took it with him, hid it in the house or stashed it in the yard, tossed it somewhere, sold it, or destroyed it

Agree it was pre planned, or an alignment of the stars and luck that is highly unlikely

Don’t agree it was ‘sloppy’ as I haven’t a clue what that means in this context
We know he hasn’t been caught
We know this was a brutal stabbing of four victims
Can a stabbing be done with precision, cleanliness, less sloppy? I’m not sure it can

JMO

Well, there sure are ways of using a knife that result in less blood being on the knife-wielder. I don't know what "sloppy" meant in the original reports, but I have assumed it means there were at least bloody glove prints. What a killer might want to avoid is arterial blood spurt, but if the killer were dressed properly, I suppose even that wouldn't matter that much.

It does raise the issue of where they went to clean up. But if the killer knew what he was doing, anatomically, he might have been rather precise (what Mr and Mrs G have said makes me think that's the case, but who knows). At any rate, there are more and less precise or sloppy ways to use a knife. I don't think anyone ever said the crime scene was "clean."

I agree it's really hard to know what "sloppy" means in this context. First of all, it was the first stabbing murder in living memory in Moscow, so it was going to look "sloppy" if that means "lots of blood" (odd choice of word, still), When I first saw the word, I figured it meant bedclothes tossed everywhere, things knocked over, items of the killer left behind, etc. I suppose this could still be true. It's possible they had some item that gave them the killer's DNA right away. Perhaps that's how they compiled their "believe not to be involved" list but they still don't know who the perp is (or the DNA is not enough to make the case).

If we're still in this holding pattern in February, my heart is going to sink.

 

[Katrinepa]

RSBM. Didn't they have dogs there the day of the murders or the next day!?

Apparently they did, and the one crime podcast I saw said this, So sorry I have not been following as closely as many here, who have more details. Will try to do better...So very sad, as parents send their children to college assuming safety, but off campus apartments are rarely within the Rules of Dorms.

RSBM. Didn't they have dogs there the day of the murders or the next day!?

So sorry, and Yes they did. I have not kept up, and also watching some Podcasts, so not as up to date as some of you here. I will try to do better.

 

[The OG]

Appreciate the posting!
Sometimes a significant other fits perfectly on paper and with families.
Families follow our lead and fall in love with them just as we do. Love and commitment may change and we move on, but our family maintains a relationship.

K took a job out of state, to me that signifies a readiness to move forWard. Maybe with or maybe without JD. Idk
IMO if someone was hurt here, it was JD
Men react and handle hurt differently than young women.
Typically they don’t talk, they hold it in.

For people considering JD out of his league with K, they are seeing the boy and not the man.
He is a mechanical engineering major. That is a rigorous pursuit.
Near Thanksgiving profs give a third exam, the last exam prior to the final exam.
He may have been hold up studying for days, exhausted, with projects and exams soon heading into finals.
I don‘t know him, but my dad, brother, and sig other are engineers- so I’m biased.
We do know…
- K and M called JD that night
- the timing of the calls were not long before their deaths
- JD did not answer the phone.
I cannot imagine his sense of responsibility, What if he had answered the phone? He likely has played that out a million times and it will weigh on him for the rest of his life.

JMO

I don't see any relevancy to anyone being out of anyone's league. She obviously cared for him and he her. There was likely mutual attraction. IIRC, she was probably fairly plain when they first met. She wore a lot of product and "prettied" herself up, but that seems to be par for the course at U of I. All those sorority girls look alike to me. I don't see how she stood out in that environment even with all that effort.

 

[10ofRods]

I don't see any relevancy to anyone being out of anyone's league. She obviously cared for him and he her. There was likely mutual attraction. IIRC, she was probably fairly plain when they first met. She wore a lot of product and "prettied" herself up, but that seems to be par for the course at U of I. All those sorority girls look alike to me. I don't see how she stood out in that environment even with all that effort.

She was an absolutely adorable young girl, at 15-16.

I think Kaylee's personality was extroverted, and that she cultivated a style that was distinctive even within the sorority group, although I'll agree that so many blondes with long hair do tend to blur together (I would have had a hard time telling K and M apart in the classroom). X looked nothing like K and M, IMO.

K and M were both into the Instagram presentation of self, that's for sure. But that meant they got lots and lots of followers.

Is someone saying that K "stood out" at U of I?

 

[AuntTricia]

Appreciate the posting!
Sometimes a significant other fits perfectly on paper and with families.
Families follow our lead and fall in love with them just as we do. Love and commitment may change and we move on, but our family maintains a relationship.

K took a job out of state, to me that signifies a readiness to move forWard. Maybe with or maybe without JD. Idk
IMO if someone was hurt here, it was JD
Men react and handle hurt differently than young women.
Typically they don’t talk, they hold it in.

For people considering JD out of his league with K, they are seeing the boy and not the man.
He is a mechanical engineering major. That is a rigorous pursuit.
Near Thanksgiving profs give a third exam, the last exam prior to the final exam.
He may have been hold up studying for days, exhausted, with projects and exams soon heading into finals.
I don‘t know him, but my dad, brother, and sig other are engineers- so I’m biased.
We do know…
- K and M called JD that night
- the timing of the calls were not long before their deaths
- JD did not answer the phone.
I cannot imagine his sense of responsibility, What if he had answered the phone? He likely has played that out a million times and it will weigh on him for the rest of his life.

JMO

I agree 100% about the engineering degree. I was very impressed when I heard that is his major. My father was an engineer, husband is an engineer and son is working on his degree. It is a very demanding degree to pursue. Can't remember if he was also working.

 

[Sundog]

‘She was living the life that she deserved’: Maddie Mogen’s father braces for first Christmas without her.
'She was living the life that she deserved': Maddie Mogen's father braces for first Christmas without her

What a sweet picture of Maddie at 2 years of age dressed in her Christmas outfit. And good to know that her father is receiving daily updates from Moscow Police Department. That's pretty amazing, and he says it has helped him stay away from social media misinformation on the killings, because he hears from LE representative every day.

 

[Sundog]

I choose to believe that K and J's families know more about the nature of their relationship than strangers online do. MOO

Me, too.