ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 36

[PrairieWind]

If that video of these girls just having fun makes me smile and feel the loss too.


It is nice, but not expensive
At 3000/ month that @ $500 per renter. That is very fair- each share a bathroom with one person, shared kitchen, laundry room, fenced yard, walking distance from campus, plenty of parking.
If it is creaky and ’old’ such that it would make noises- that would be informative, but it doesn’t look ‘old’ like I’m thinking of a house that creeks with wooden floors that is 80+ years old. This looks like it was built in the 1970’s or later and had been maintained well and updated?

JMO

$500 for each, decent place, with parking, within walking distance to campus. That is a STEAL!!!

 

[wary]

Thank you! You make a very good point.

Which is actually a big part of the question I was asking others for input in.

I guess my big question is would there be any logical scenario in which they would not release the fact they’ve already identified the car and or owner of it?

Or do you think the lack of information on it is simply because they have not found it?

I want to believe so badly they have more information than they can share with the public.

Moo-

Well, I could easily visualize LE not saying that they’ve found it, if they believe that the person driving it is their suspect, and they don’t want to tip him off. They’d continue to get tips, but they just have to suffer through that.

On the other hand, (and this is 100% my fantasy,) let’s say that an embarrassed young couple shows up, saying that they think they might own the HE in question—they spend about an hour every night driving in circles, trying to get the baby asleep. They’re squeaky-clean, and their Elantra matches some detail that shows up on the (hypothetical) video footage that made LE get interested in it. (Warning, this scenario is entirely imaginary, invented to illustrate a point.)

In this case, a total clearing of the driver, I THINK that LE would announce that they have found the Elantra, that it is not connected to the murders, and that LE needs no more tips about it.

All MOO

 

[Balthazar]

Local resident creates t-shirts to honor Idaho murder victims, proceeds going to families

MOSCOW, Idaho - A local resident is selling t-shirts to raise money for the families of the four University of Idaho (UI) students who were killed last month.

www.khq.com

 

[layer]

Maddie: “What did you tell Adam?”
Kaylee: “I told him EVERYTHING.”

Have you ever told someone EVERYTHING and it not been a big deal. If their conversation was benign she would’ve told her what they talked about. To answer with “I told him EVERYTHING”…

In my opinion this is one of the biggest clues we’ve received. It wasn’t released by the MPD either. I don’t think “A” is involved but I wonder about the many calls to “J” that night. Were they calling to check his temperature after Kaylee told “A” , his roommate, EVERYTHING?

Just some thoughts and my opinions…

First, you got the quotes backwards.
Second, J is currently cleared by LE.

 

[SRWCF]

I was just wondering that very same thing. That led me to wonder how one would go about finding and hiring such a person. Dark web? Craig's list? Payment in bit coin?
I don't think I've ever heard of a mass killing for hire and I don't believe this is what happened here. JMO

I don't know about you, but this is certainly not something I'm going to ask Google about!

 

[10ofRods]

Respectfully snipped for focus

I did some reading this morning and found that mass murderers often operate off hatred rather than rage. Hatred against a group that mistreated them, that they disapprove of in general, or a group that excluded them. Hitler hated Jews. The Walmart manager hated his employees. Dylan Roof hated black people. There are other motivations, for sure, but they all seemed to be deeply rooted motivations that allowed for planning rather than impulsive actions. I watched an American Monster episode where a woman left her husband and weeks later he killed her mother and grandparents, and shot her brother 12 times. His motivation was to punish her for leaving him. He didn't shoot her. He wanted her to suffer the loss of everyone she loved.

The more I think about it, the less it makes sense to me that the killer came to kill one and the others were any sort of collateral damage. Why not just choose a different time and place rather than risk one person getting away and raising the alarm? I agree there had to be an inciting event, but I don't think this was a crime of passion. To me, at least so far, it seems more like other mass murders, where the killer has an issue with the group as a whole.

Thanks for reading.

I like where you're going. There's no way to properly study the victimology in this case, unless we know if there were intended victims - or whether the "whole house" was targeted. And we don't know that yet.

I think the "hate" theory is a good one, since this is technically a mass murder. I think it was the Mayor of Moscow who said it was a "Crime of Passion" but that was within 48 hours of the murders. That has not been said since, so, big grain of salt.

So who was hated here? College students? Greeks? Popular kids? Middle class people? I'm not expecting you to answer of course (but feel free to add to my speculation). Maybe it's also hate of the whole world or anyone who is happy and having fun, anyone who is more successful than the unsub.

I am not ruling out more specific motives, of course, but right now, we don't have a lot to go on. The effects of these murders are striking. For many young people, it's the first murder they've followed. For college students, it hits very close to home. And it's also possible that the murderer held intense hate for one of the victims, a pathological amount obviously.

In the example you posted, the hate of the killer was enacted on those around the much-hated object. I'd argue that such a murderer had to feel intense hate toward the victims as well as the former spouse. Seems quite likely. Rage and hate can co-exist, just to restate the obvious, but hate can be cold and calculating for sure.

 

[Trouble1321075]

Why would that person use a knife instead of a gun though?.

Guns are noisy
Guns are traceable
Guns are harder to get
Guns are harder to dispose of

Moo

 

[SRWCF]

Profiling, to be of any use, must be based on some good facts. Most of the profiling I have seen is based upon assumptions, so it is largely useless.

Yes. Educated guesses, at best.

 

[10ofRods]

If you look to the beginning it's a video of one of Fry's updates. Everything that was bullet pointed is what he said in the video. Could this be why the template looks different?.

On their homepage it still has all the same info.

That's entirely possible. I'm definitely out on a limb with this theory and the small clues.

If they do find themselves focusing on someone who is "reinterviewed," it will be a bit awkward for them to change their main text, but they will have to do it sometime, somehow (if they are, for example, going to go deeper into one of those people's lives).

I of course am going to keep pointing out that the term "cleared" was never used. They just want people to leave the persons on the list alone.

I can think of people whose names are *not* on the list, but am trying not to treat that as indicative of anything in this investigation.

 

[wary]

This obviously wouldn't apply to a hired gun (!), but I've been thinking the reason for using the knife could have been as simple as the perp never having shot a gun before. I know guns are everywhere in the US, but there's probably still quite a few people who know nothing about loading and using a gun.

This, and that knives are more silent. (No, silencers are spectacularly ineffective for stealth.)

 

[lucidium]

Interesting change in the template for the Daily MPD update. I have been checking daily for any editorial changes and now it's happened. Here is 12-20:

https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24978/12-20-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update

It's much shorter than any previous day's update and language that was in most of the previous updates is gone. Here's 12-19 as an example:

https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24943/12-19-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update

Now, this could be just a fluke, but I doubt it. Some of us were discussing the "re-interviewing" process and the fact that Mrs G mentioned that some people were cleared too early (SG mentioned it as well). We discussed it briefly a couple of threads ago that if MPD wanted to walk back some of the "clearings," it would have to remove all of the people they listed, otherwise it would be obvious which person was being put back into the pool of possible POI's.

No one was cleared, the language was "not believed to be involved at this time." (emphasis mine),

Now the update/daily statement leaves off that whole section, with no mention of anyone "not believed to be involved."

Again, could just be a fluke, but I am guessing that as they have interviewed over 200 people, LE's picture of what happened is much sharper. A is mentioned as cooperating, btw.

I also believe it's an open question as to where everyone started out sleeping on Nov 12, in that house, as well as how many people might have been there during that evening. While it is true that *one* reporter "confirmed with police" where people were sleeping - how was it even known back then? That was the first week of this investigation. That was before we all saw the 9-1 body cam video (and I doubt that MPD personnel remembered to review that video back in Week 1).

So there's movement in this case. Maybe tomorrow the "not believed to be involved" list will be back.

Seems like a reasonable change to me. Daily news releases should focus on new and/or the most important information. Everything else is best suited for MPD's King Road Homicides page and FAQ.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I don't know about you, but this is certainly not something I'm going to ask Google about!

I DID Google. I'm regretting it because I now have seemingly looked for a hired killer. Thank goodness, my other crime related searches show up lol. The prices are all over the place. I didn't actually click on links just read what I could see on the search page.

 

[samanthadaniels1995]

This is absolutely what I think too.
The person who had a grudge or 'beef' with these students didn't do the killing himself. They got someone in to do the job. Someone who specialises in that kind of thing, and who was capable of doing it without being caught.

An unknown answer to the question is "What was the target ?". Then you may work backwards. 1? 2? 3? 4? people. What would kill 1? 2? 3? 4? people. At the perfect time with such force, minimal chaos, and precision to leave with little trail.

At this time before Christmas, I empathize with those affected by this. Blessings to be with each other. Talking about what happened rather frankly, how it feels to know, where the anger is directed when it comes, and what to look forward to or reach out to in the near future. A lot of difficult decisions and plans to make. A prayer for a moment by moment experience of peace. We are here for a purpose. The light to follow is the good you may do for others as time of your healing occurs. You will heal,

 

[MountainDad]

I stated early in this investigation that a stock model year picture of a vehicle is not a lead that should released to the public, and ask for help locating the vehicle. I believe the owner of the crashed car found in OR would agree with me. I believe all owners of Elantra in the Moscow vicinity would agree. It is dangerous, and casts a wide net of suspicion upon innocent people. LE should release the video you have of the car, an identifying marker, or just keep it to yourself. IMO

Release of information is crucial to solving murders, and LE strategy of total withholding is harming the case. IMO

 

[10ofRods]

Seems like a reasonable change to me. Daily news releases should focus on new and/or the most important information. Everything else is best suited for MPD's King Road Homicides page and FAQ.

I remember when they moved the information into the FAQ section (which reduced its visibility of course). But I will be patient to see if any further changes take place in the FAQ (which is the least visible section of the homepage).

If I were their PIO, and had information about the actual state of the investigation, I'd be thinking of how to handle what comes next and the implications of who is not on that least of "not believed to be involved." It's been radio silence, basically. Other characters in this story must feel at least a little uneasy (that they are not on that short list).

 

[PrairieWind]

I stated early in this investigation that a stock model year picture of a vehicle is not a lead that should released to the public, and ask for help locating the vehicle. I believe the owner of the crashed car found in OR would agree with me. I believe all owners of Elantra in the Moscow vicinity would agree. It is dangerous, and casts a wide net of suspicion upon innocent people. LE should release the video you have of the car, an identifying marker, or just keep it to yourself. IMO

Release of information is crucial to solving murders, and LE strategy of total withholding is harming the case. IMO

I don't understand your reasoning. The police have said they are looking for a white Elantra, certain years. They perhaps don't have a good photo of the exact car they are looking for. They release a stock photo so people know. How does that put any more suspicion on innocent people than an actual blurry photo? LE needs some public assistance here, and it is not unreasonable to expect the public to act responsibly.

 

[10ofRods]

I stated early in this investigation that a stock model year picture of a vehicle is not a lead that should released to the public, and ask for help locating the vehicle. I believe the owner of the crashed car found in OR would agree with me. I believe all owners of Elantra in the Moscow vicinity would agree. It is dangerous, and casts a wide net of suspicion upon innocent people. LE should release the video you have of the car, an identifying marker, or just keep it to yourself. IMO

Release of information is crucial to solving murders, and LE strategy of total withholding is harming the case. IMO

Well, TBF, they never asked for help in locating the vehicle. To my knowledge, there was never an APB or a BOLO for this vehicle.

Instead, LE asked specifically for information about the car on or around Nov 12-13, and for 3-4 days before that. It's turned into much more than that, of course, and LE has made no attempt to reiterate that we ought not to be putting photos of every Elantra (and the license plates) up all over the web, or following people in Elantras, etc.

I agree that this wide net thing is dangerous. At the very least, LE should emphasize that they only want information about the past behavior of a particular Elantra and its occupants. It's a weird thing to ask for, though, and LE has done nothing to rein in the public.

Even stranger, to me, is that "occupants of the Elantra" do not appear on the "believed not to be involved" list, so the average person should be advised that for now, if they decide to approach the occupants of an Elantra, they may be approaching someone who is involved. Instead, LE has not done much to warn the public that such behavior is dangerous.

 

[lucidium]

I stated early in this investigation that a stock model year picture of a vehicle is not a lead that should released to the public, and ask for help locating the vehicle. I believe the owner of the crashed car found in OR would agree with me. I believe all owners of Elantra in the Moscow vicinity would agree. It is dangerous, and casts a wide net of suspicion upon innocent people. LE should release the video you have of the car, an identifying marker, or just keep it to yourself. IMO

Release of information is crucial to solving murders, and LE strategy of total withholding is harming the case. IMO

On the other hand, any reasonable person understands that not every driver of a 2011-2013 Elantra is a murderer. Even if said driver acts in ways that could be considered 'odd.' Reasonable people also do not insert themselves into an investigation.

As far as withholding information goes... I think the FBI is quite competent at conducting complex investigations, and they rarely release any info.

ETA: When conducting an investigation, I don't believe it is appropriate to allow the actions of unreasonable people to affect your decisions.

 

[Seraphim]

Can’t or will not LE start interviewing once again everyone they have previously spoken to and if necessary ask some to submit a DNA samples?

 

[SUSAN ANN]

I don’t know why, but I have a feeling something happened that led up to the murders that night. Something maybe over the course of a few days, maybe. Seems like police are really closing in on the suspect/suspects.. Is possible relative is hiding or helping the perp. Or a friend. Maybe White car belonged to someone else but why aren’t they coming forward, if they haven’t .. Just my opinion.