ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 36

[OckhamsRazor22]

Yes I agree, well said! This is exactly what I think too.
It makes sense that the word rage implies crime of passion, but rage is of the moment.
This wasn’t an emotion of the moment, or a reaction, it was long held hatred and planning.
So who hates And what do they hate?
They could hate what they
- want but don’t know how to get- envy, jealousy
- misunderstand or fear due to ignorance, culture, religion- bigotry
- see in themselves that is flawed, shameful- projection
- cannot defend against that makes them feel vulnerable- revenge
- What else?

JMO

Agreed as well. All but the “mass murder” classification by the OP of “four” or more. And here I thought the def of a mass murder is “three” or more persons? Go figure…

 

[Charlot123]

Based on what they’ve said in the last couple interviews, I think they know who it is. I think they’re trying to find him. The expansion of the FBI across the country etc. makes me think so. It may be that that is just for looking for the vehicle, but I’m hoping it’s to go find him. I hope it won’t be too difficult and that someone is not hiding him. Otherwise, it’s freezing cold out. You can’t go camping, etc.

And if that’s true, then it probably is not any of the people everyone has talked about that is local. All those people presumably are with their friends and family. I’m hoping that they are going to look at friends and relatives of who their suspect is across the country and over the Canadian border too I would expect. I hope they find the car and can get this monster off the street.

I feel they know, and i hope no one can run away from own DNA. I think it is not anyone "Moscow-local", but "Idaho-local", and even a student, he could be. Could be a "neighbor" from WA, MT or OR, as Idaho panhandle is pretty narrow.
During the holidays, people can visit relatives, old grandparents, for example, and then quietly leave one morning, not telling their old folks. People travel to Canada, more so, to Mexico or Dominican Republic, away from cold. Alaska and some crab ship is not impossible. I found several new touristy destinations where one would stick out, but no one would pay attention at the same time, as these places thrive on tourism.
A lot depends on whether the person has a passport, or an enhanced driver's license. Having a license only limits one's possibilities.
Another question is, where in the world the family has relatives?
A question I'd consider. Cuba. It is super easy to get there from Canada, and not expensive to live there. Do you know how is their attitude to US passport now?
I just hope that no country needs to accommodate someone else's knife murderer of women.

ETA. I intentionally asked everyone who I know living in Eastern WA, Spokane or Yakima, about this case. No one knows. I mean it, no one. Maybe more people should be made aware.

 

[Jawds78]

Yes it was posted and discussed last night.

Whoopsie! Sorry and thank you. I hadn't seen any further conversation and thought it was telling. JMO

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

Yes it was posted and discussed last night.

I missed it, and I hate looking backwards for it. Is it okay if Jawds78 posts the link once again?

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

Whoopsie! Sorry and thank you. I hadn't seen any further conversation and thought it was telling. JMO

I’d truly appreciate the link, as I’ve not viewed it and would like to (if there is something telling to it, as you stated). Thanks!

 

[Which_pancake]

IMO, it is unlikely that the "Adam" conversation has anything to do with this case. It is simply the few seconds of conversation that happened to be captured as they walked by the security camera of someone who chose to release it publicly. The chances that that bit of conversation holds the key to this are tiny.

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

I feel they know, and i hope no one can run away from own DNA. I think it is not anyone "Moscow-local", but "Idaho-local", and even a student, he could be. Could be a "neighbor" from WA, MT or OR, as Idaho panhandle is pretty narrow.
During the holidays, people can visit relatives, old grandparents, for example, and then quietly leave one morning, not telling their old folks. People travel to Canada, more so, to Mexico or Dominican Republic, away from cold. Alaska and some crab ship is not impossible. I found several new touristy destinations where one would stick out, but no one would pay attention at the same time, as these places thrive on tourism.
A lot depends on whether the person has a passport, or an enhanced driver's license. Having a license only limits one's possibilities.
Another question is, where in the world the family has relatives?
A question I'd consider. Cuba. It is super easy to get there from Canada, and not expensive to live there. Do you know how is their attitude to US passport now?
I just hope that no country needs to accommodate someone else's knife murderer of women.

Yes. Visitors to town over any holiday season is anticipated. If this killer doesn’t reside close by, he visits or (on occasion) stays with someone who does.
P.S. He didn’t just “knife murder” women. He took out a young man as well. Equal opportunity Hunter and killer. Highly effective in both aspects. JMOO.

 

[Trouble1321075]

No hit man did this. Too much risk. It would have been a double-tap with a silencer not a physical assault risking hand to hand combat and/or the victim being armed. Nope. Jmoo

Silencers do not actually silence gun shots.

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

I think the hate vs. rage distinction is significant and potentially relevant to this case -- thanks for sharing!

Agree.

 

[layer]

Yes I agree, well said! This is exactly what I think too.
It makes sense that the word rage implies crime of passion, but rage is of the moment.
This wasn’t an emotion of the moment, or a reaction, it was long held hatred and planning.

I'm not convinced that hatred was even a factor in these killings. I think this could be the work of a predator. Predators don't generally hate their prey. I have a hawk that lives at my house. I don't think he hates the birds and small animals he kills and consumes. In fact he seems to like them, a little too much.

 

[Trouble1321075]

I'm not convinced that hatred was even a factor in these killings. I think this could be the work of a predator. Predators don't generally hate their prey. I have a hawk that lives at my house. I don't think he hates the birds and small animals he kills and consumes. In fact he seems to like them, a little too much.

What do you imagine the motive would be for a predator in this case?

 

[scruffydog]

After weeks of reading and listening to all thoughts and opinions, I am left with the conclusion that we just do not have enough information to begin to solve this. After all this time, what we don't know far outweighs what we do. I have to hope that LE has the info to find justice for four young people and the friends and families that love them.

We still do not even know where the four were found, what they did all night before they got home or who made the 911 call.

One thing that I hear discussed us where E and X were during part of the evening. It is my understanding that E had a room at the fraternity. Could it be as simple as that they were hanging out in there? Also, isn't his brother a member of that fraternity? I can not imagine a scenario where there is some murder plot amongst members and the brother is not aware of anything going on.

I have twin grandchildren who are college freshmen. I asked them about some of the details around locking doors, etc. One if them is in an off campus apartment that is much smaller that the house in question. They have bedroom door locks. My grandson says he locks his door when he sleeps mostly because he sleeps in his underwear and has doesn't want people walking in. His apartment is kind of a party place and he doesn't always know all of the people present.

His room is very close to the livingroom where kids hang out. If he wants to go to bed, he turns on a fan and says it drowns out most of the noise. He said if he put in earbuds, he would not hear any amount of noise. Short of gunshots, I am thinking it is not suspicious that downstairs roommates could have slept through the night. As a teenager, I slept many a weekend until noon!

I lost a daughter to cancer, not murder. She died surrounded by a caring medical team and family who loved her, and still her death was unbearable. I can not imagine the heartache of a parent whose child died in pain, in fear, in this horrible manner. Finding this killer will not even begin to lessen that heartache, but hopefully it will be a step towards finding peace for those families.

This kind of brings up something I've wondered about ever since these murders occurred....Any time I have ever had roommates in my life, I have locked my bedroom door if a boyfriend stayed over with me. Not to be crass, but isn't that normal?

 

[10ofRods]

I'm not convinced that hatred was even a factor in these killings. I think this could be the work of a predator. Predators don't generally hate their prey. I have a hawk that lives at my house. I don't think he hates the birds and small animals he kills and consumes. In fact he seems to like them, a little too much.

A human predator is, to me, either a psychopath or a sociopath. Most likely a psychopath. Multiple personality disorders, if we must go by DSM, but mentally deranged in significant ways. And they certainly exist.

If it's a predator in this case then, like your hawk, this person has struck before and will strike again, perhaps in ways that escalate and de-escalate, as the person attempts to deal with their own bizarre reality.

 

[scruffydog]

Maybe a knife proficient mass killer was the only one available for hire at the time. Maybe all the gun wielding mass killers for hire were all booked.
MOO

My opinion...a young person who already had the knife.... who one or more of the victims did/said something to, that put the person into a rage. Use what you have, that won't leave a purchase trail, like a gun. And no noise, to wake other people in the house.

 

[AngTxGal]

Agreed as well. All but the “mass murder” classification by the OP of “four” or more. And here I thought the def of a mass murder is “three” or more persons? Go figure…

They are man made categories, and some murderers and victims don‘t fit. As all man-made categories they may change.

Abstract of a book Mass Murder in The Untied States- Department of Justice website
Abstract
A mass murder is defined as the killing of three or more people at one time and in one location.
The serial murder is the killing of three or more people in more than a 30-day period with a significant cooling-off period between the murders.
A spree murder is the killing of three or more people usually within a 30-day period and typically during the course of another felony (such as a robbery).

In the 1990's there was more than 100 cases of mass murder. There appears to be no reliable source regarding accurate data on the incidence of mass murder. Despite not knowing the exact number of people who fall victim to mass killers, it is usually found that a mass killer murders intimates as well as strangers. There have been cases of mass murder since early in U.S. history. Many of these acts of multicide are unrecorded. No single factor accounts for the personality of the mass killer. Most likely, the motivation to kill comes from outside the personality. The reasons for an act of mass murder are psychological gain and material gain. The killer is found to be geographically stable. The major types of mass killers are pseudocommando, the disciple, the family annihilator, the religious/ideological killer, the disgruntled citizen, the disgruntled employee, the set-and-run killer, and the psychotic mass killer. School shootings by youthful killers have occurred numerous times in this country’s history. Some of the common traits that these types of killers share are white male, student, rural or suburban settings, middle class background, disenfranchised, interest in internet and computer games, and interest in weaponry. Departments that investigate a mass murder case encounter problems that are not ordinarily present in many cases, such as turf protection, determination of the type of mass murder, and identification of the victims. References, index

Pretty interesting
JMO

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

Silencers do not actually silence gun shots.

Silencers do not actually silence gun shots.

Neither do most suppressors. Yet, there are ways to grind and manipulate said weaponry to further eliminate sound. There are also many factions on the planet who already possess such superior weaponry. The Russian S4M pistol is one example. BRITAIN has quite a few in the ranks of MI6 and Scotland Yard. You hear more of a “click” than the muffled thunderclap.

None detracts from the fact very FEW hired assassins use a knife (for obvious and logical reasons). That’s a very special kill, and the cost becomes astronomical - especially considering the body count. Jmoo

 

[ACG2x]

I don't know why I'm so bothered by this, but I am. The headline on this Fox News article states that Moscow PD was called to the home six weeks before the murders. But it also states the noise complaint in question occurred on Sept. 1. The interval from Sept 1 to Nov 13 is 10+ weeks, not six. Why is crime reporting so abysmal?

Moscow police called to home over party 6 weeks before murders: 'You have a house full of random people'

Sadly it's not just crime reporting

Mainstream media operates under speed as a priority vs. accuracy. As long as any rando claims something, they can print it as "source who did not want to be named" and present it as fact.

 

[wary]

That's entirely possible. I'm definitely out on a limb with this theory and the small clues.

If they do find themselves focusing on someone who is "reinterviewed," it will be a bit awkward for them to change their main text, but they will have to do it sometime, somehow (if they are, for example, going to go deeper into one of those people's lives).

I of course am going to keep pointing out that the term "cleared" was never used. They just want people to leave the persons on the list alone.

I can think of people whose names are *not* on the list, but am trying not to treat that as indicative of anything in this investigation.

I think that the thing that people ON the list have in common is that they were sleuthed early, energetically and often, even in places that have serious moderation.

LE may have just given up adding people to their list, as the number of people sleuthed grows and grows. Or the names that they’re ‘clearing’ now might be so marginally known that adding them to the list would do more harm than good.

Either way, the fact that someone’s not on the list doesn’t indicate anything, I believe.

All MOO

 

[Walpurgis]

I've gotta say, I don't think a "hit" makes much sense- premeditated sure. Someone who fixates on violence and fantasizes about it to the point where they build confidence/routine in themselves around their violent actions before they're committed. I'm not sold on the incel idea either, but it does fit- someone who makes up their own rules about how people should think and act, and fixates on what violent reactions they'd be justified on having once that's violated would explain the intimacy and brutality, combined with how covertly it was executed since they've planned out a general plan for a long time before hand. Maybe this was long planned with these victims in mind, but it could have been just been triggered that night. Perp has a plan in place just in case they get triggered by something, the victims unknowingly meet the criteria, the killer follows them home- sees them go to the top floor but also sees that the second floor is lit up (the couple going to bed)- waits for all lights to go out, and is willing to take out everyone that they are aware of in the house to enact their fantasy/revenge/justice. The girls in the basement are already asleep, don't make their presence known, survive. If you're someone fixated on violence, it makes sense to be carrying the weapon your fantasy is centered around as well, or to plan to use a weapon that would always be accessible- knives are in virtually every home or restaurant, and anyone can buy one at any time.

 

[Trouble1321075]

Neither do most suppressors. Yet, there are ways to grind and manipulate said weaponry to further eliminate sound. There are also many factions on the planet who already possess such superior weaponry. The Russian S4M pistol is one example. BRITAIN has quite a few in the ranks of MI6 and Scotland Yard. You hear more of a “click” than the muffled thunderclap. Jmoo

I get the impression that many people have the impression that silencers are like how they are portrayed in the movies. If the killers objective is stealth a gun is a poor choice, silencer or not.