ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 37

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Strong1 said:
About the lease on the house. Is it possible that rather than the group signing a combined lease or one person being the sole signer, could have each occupant signed an individual lease for their individual bedroom. So if there are 6 bedrooms that would mean 6 leases. With students moving in and out, it makes sense that way. Actually it would also possibly mean more rental income for home owner. Just a thought.
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Perhaps the women in the house were willing to risk paying a premium to ensure that the people living with them were compatible?
 
RAISINISBACK said:
(Just a caring dad who loved their child, their Angel Mommy, God, and Darryl Dixon).

And Walmart shoes.

I know it is the popular belief the girls, one or all was the target. I think that is because they were very beautiful girls. Model material. But college towns are full of beautiful young girls who are not stalked or killed.

I think this resulted from an altercation either at the frat party earlier or a party that continued after E&X returned home.

I think before the altercation there was no target, that something happened in that altercation with E or X that set off a murderous rage. SG said there was a "Hell of a battle" on the second floor.

People seem to think young men don't carry around knives strapped on their belt but that is not true (here they carry guns strapped to their belts in public loaded with hollow point ammo). This is Idaho, where hunting is a big deal.

Then you have the video gamers who are into everything their avatars online are, buying the costumes, knives, guns ect that is used in the game. (think the TV show Big Bang Theory or as a nod to @rsd1200 Boondock Saints.) Also those frat and sorority parties have themes. So what if it was a D&D or Call of Duty theme party?

Or someone who just collected knives and daggers?

Then who is to say the knife wasn't already there in the house? A left over from a friend at a previous party? Or even belonged to E or one of the girls? You know girls are gamers too and into everything their online avatar is into. Or even a gift from a father or brother for protection. Not out of the realm of possibility that knife belonged to one of the girls.

Unless we are young, or have young kids/grandkids who tell us what's popular in their world today, we have no way of knowing what they are up to.

We have very little information on any of the victims hobbies, or if they owned a K Bar knife or any other kind of fixed blade knife. If any of them were obsessed with The Walking Dead and Darryl Dixon. We know even less about E's frat brothers and what they were into. Or the girls male friends and what they were into.

I firmly believe what happened came from that frat house after E&X returned home and K&M were caught up in it because they saw who was there when they came home.

In other words, taking SG at his word, there was a drunken brawl with the perpetrator maybe taking some drug like meth, that resulted in a hell of a battle on the second floor.

Sometimes the simplest explanation is the correct one.

JMO
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What are Walmart shoes, I don't follow your train of thought?
 
Strong1 said:
About the lease on the house. Is it possible that rather than the group signing a combined lease or one person being the sole signer, could have each occupant signed an individual lease for their individual bedroom. So if there are 6 bedrooms that would mean 6 leases. With students moving in and out, it makes sense that way. Actually it would also possibly mean more rental income for home owner. Just a thought.
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“Known as a student rental, the home’s most recent tenants were a group of six University of Idaho undergraduates who signed a 12-month lease that began on June 5, according to the property management firm that oversees the home.”

Also:
““Primarily for the last 12 years, it has been rented as one unit as a single-family home,” McClanahan said.”

For those who’ve missed it, this Idaho Statesman article has very helpful details.

Moo
 
The following are simply my own thoughts and opinion regarding the Idaho tragedy. I don’t feel it’s a stretch for a lone wolf killer to commit such a crime. They only need motive, means, and opportunity.

What if the motive is so elusive it’s nearly non existent? Violent crime strikes strangers just as it does known victims. We expect LE/Feds to know something more than we do. To somehow understand the fragile psychology of it in ways we don’t. To piece together the forensics and make a WHOLE puzzle out of a paradox. If only it were that easy. Yet, they too face the same struggles and constant uphill battle. Time is always a factor in such an investigation. The fear of another attack is ever-present and in the forefront of their thoughts.

What + Why = WHO. Four people murdered, no sexual assaults. WHAT set him off - and WHY did the killer choose this methodology to kill these four people? The home was rented and usually occupied solely by females. Sorority university students. Ethan did not live there, and apparently decided to spend the night there with Xana (thus, unwittingly sealing his own fate). He was an unexpected presence, casualty, and collateral.

I find some of the possibilities mentioned on this forum to be genuinely fascinating. Some very complex. Keep asking the questions and tossing the hypothesis’s around like a World Cup soccer ball on fire. It only takes one good lead to solve such a murder. You never know where the next tip will lead. Work the maze and dots backward. Read and re-read notable posts. There is only one path which will lead straight to the killer. Never stop asking, searching, or hunting for the answers and the truth. It can be a long game…on the road to justice. It is worth every single step. JMOO.
 
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femto said:
I don't buy that. This would require the killer to have basically stumbled upon the house by chance. If he was going from the back and into the parking lot and didn't even bother going up the front, high chances are that he had observed or been in this house numerous times already. The alternative is him basically just walking past the trees, skipping numerous houses and then looking at this particular huge one and saying "wow, voila, a house I can attack'. Regardless of whether the knows the victims personally or not, imo he most definitely knew the house.

Definitely not intoxicated. Drugs are possible but I seriously doubt it. The killer came in very prepared, patient and from what we know so far he left little evidence. Obviously the police might have something, buts since they still haven't caught him or have any big clue as to who the killer is, i'd argue he didn't leave all that much.
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I agree that no way was the killer intoxicated. I do think he could’ve been on a synthetic that he had experimented with before. Something that revved him up and gave him a sense of invincibility. JMO.
 
CSIDreamer said:
Did she ever move in?
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“Detectives are aware of a sixth person listed on the lease at the residence. They have spoken to this individual and confirmed they moved out prior to the start of the school year and were not present at the time of the incident. Detectives do not believe this person has any involvement in the murders.”

Listed under Additional Investigation Information:
King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID
 
BeginnerSleuther said:
But a lease is a legal document. You basically committed to living there for one year. You can't usually change it unless you find someone else to take your place. It could be this 6th person was still paying her share of the rent, despite not living there. That begs the question, why did she move out?

MOO.
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Do we know for certain what the term length of the lease is? Different rules regarding moving notice for month-to-month, fixed yearly leases, implied yearly leases, etc. Without seeing the actual lease and the terms therein, it's impossible to say even if sublets were allowed and what those terms were, or if the lease specified a guest policy and/or resident guest policy.
Idaho does have landlord/tenant laws..Idaho Attorney General Guidelines and a condensed version Understanding Idaho Rental Laws
I think I heard why the 6th one didn't live there but I cannot recall with any semblance of accuracy. moo
 
OckhamsRazor22 said:
The following are simply my own thoughts and opinion regarding the Idaho tragedy. I don’t feel it’s a stretch for a lone wolf killer to commit such a crime. They only need motive, means, and opportunity.

What if the motive is so elusive it’s nearly non existent? Violent crime strikes strangers just as it does known victims. We expect LE/Feds to know something more than we do. To somehow understand the fragile psychology of it in ways we don’t. Do piece together the forensics and make a WHOLE puzzle. If only it were that easy. Yet, they too face the same struggles.

What + Why = WHO. Four people murdered, no sexual assaults. WHAT set him off - and WHY did the killer choose this methodology to kill these four people? The home was rented and usually occupied solely by females. Sorority university students. Ethan did not live there, and apparently decided to spend the night there with Xana (thus, unwittingly sealing his own fate). He was an unexpected presence, casualty, and collateral.

I find some of the possibilities mentioned on this forum to be genuinely fascinating. Some very complex. Keep asking the questions and tossing the hypothesis’s around like a World Cup soccer ball on fire. It only takes one good lead to solve such a murder. You never know where the next tip will lead. Work the maze and dots backward. Read and re-read notable posts. There is only one path which will lead straight to the killer. Never stop asking, searching, or hunting for the answers and the truth. It can be a long game…on the road to justice. It is worth every single step. JMOO.
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Interesting points. Two things to note:

Lack of sexual assault does not equal lack of sexual motivation.

There’s a reason that LE is not required to show motivation: as you said, the motive for this sort of crime is usually something that normal people can barely comprehend.
 
10ofRods said:
My biggest fear in this case (and IMO the reason why BAU is so heavily involved) is that LE fears for the safety of witnesses in this case. And they should be afraid. Chief Fry comes across as reassuring, but I'm sure part of him is quite worried about what this perp will do next.

If they were to arrest this person without the strongest, most damning evidence, he would be out on bail (like Barry Morphew) fairly quickly. Then what? They've interviewed a *lot* of people, and some of them are going to be key witnesses. We learned in the Morphew case that those ankle bracelets are not a perfect solution, as when the geofence is violated, the signal goes to some human somewhere, who then contacts LE and there's real lag time there.

This perp is not messing around. I do not believe this was a traditional crime of passion. I think they're dealing with a cold-blooded murderer who takes some enjoyment from vengeance and believes their own cause is always right and must be defended.

I agree they need to get him, charge him with several things, and show the judge he must be held until trial. They need to have their trial game up and running, as well.



But, for greatest efficiency with a fixed blade knife, you wouldn't exactly use a stabbing motion (and Mr G seems to imply this was the case). So it's not just someone who has watched TV and gotten ideas about how to stab - this is someone who knows how to use that kind of knife.

I totally agree that no medical knowledge is necessary, but I do believe it was intentional that the heart was avoided, the jugular and carotid were avoided etc. Coroner clearly said upper body/torso. It's unusual to see someone go for the liver, as Mr and Mrs G have said happened to K., but it's highly effective and something other than a stabbing motion is typically used (think using body weight/momentum and knife is like a bayonet). I think anyone who is interested in sharp blade weaponry would likely know this (although some wouldn't) and it in no way takes military OR medical training.

And some people have to really think about where the liver is (half of my students guess the wrong side in their first quiz - which means everyone is likely guessing). My students (mostly freshmen and sophomores, basic human biology class) also do not know what the liver does or why it might be lethal to have severe damage to it. My class is a prereq for the forensic sequence, if you're wondering why we're taking that approach (it''s also important in paleoanthropology as we try to ascertain causes of death in the past as well). Kind of a niche knowledge to have, IMO.
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How do we know the heart and arteries were not struck? I may have missed them saying that.
 
Walela said:
If I were the 6th person on the lease and didn't live there I would want to have my name removed from the lease. I would not want to be held responsible for any damages, etc to a place where I didn't live. moo
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I think, in order to do that, one must find someone that the leasor, approves of to take over your portion of the lease and sign a new lease.
 
RAISINISBACK said:
In one of the earlier MSM articles one of the first floor girls said she heard loud male voices from upstairs but just thought it was a party going on.

For now this is JUST MY OPINION because I do not have the link yet. I know the article is out there from the first days after the murders but at this time I am still looking for it. Maybe someone else on here remembers it and has the link and will kindly provide it for us.

The statement by SG saying there was "A hell of a battle on the second floor" has been linked here many, many times recently upthread when he was talking about information the coroner gave him.

JMO
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Oh wow, I was just going to post about the roommates hearing something. This from EC's mom. It's not much but maybe someone can find another link with more info.


Two roommates were home at the time of the killings, police have said. The roommates heard something, according to Chapin’s mother, Stacy, though she did not get into details.
 
z0mer said:
She did, but they updated the list to fall and she was on the list for spring. You can view it on Google cache.

webcache.googleusercontent.com

Dean's List-EHHS-University of Idaho

Congratulations to those on our Dean's List. The College of Education, Health and Human Sciences is proud of the success and accomplishments of its students.
webcache.googleusercontent.com webcache.googleusercontent.com
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She did what?

I said she was on the list for Spring (at least that's what my words were intended to convey) and the list before that.

BUT, in the most recent version - Fall, 2022, she isn't, most likely because her grades were not turned in.

Universities, via accreditation standards, are required to offer a grade of incomplete (though it's entirely up to the prof to dispense it). I like to think that eventually, Kaylee's grades will be rectified (through the Academic Senate or other faculty board reviewing academics). Then she will be rewarded a posthumous diploma - but perhaps not Dean's List.

I have posted a couple of times that she was on the Dean's list, and that she disappears on the Dean's list for Fall 2022, because she did not complete her courses.

Final fall list is whatever is certified by the Registrar (a special employee that is pretty much held to legal standards about what grades go into transcripts).
 
Walela said:
If I were the 6th person on the lease and didn't live there I would want to have my name removed from the lease. I would not want to be held responsible for any damages, etc to a place where I didn't live. moo
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Once you sign a lease you’re probably not gonna get your name removed if it’s a year lease
 
North_Idaho_Nony said:
“Known as a student rental, the home’s most recent tenants were a group of six University of Idaho undergraduates who signed a 12-month lease that began on June 5, according to the property management firm that oversees the home.”

Also:
““Primarily for the last 12 years, it has been rented as one unit as a single-family home,” McClanahan said.”

For those who’ve missed it, this Idaho Statesman article has very helpful details.

Moo
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I totally understand what what this says. It just seems odd that you have 6 people on one lease. If one or two were to move out then the others would have to pick up the slack as far as the rent goes? Also, if someone were to move out, who was responsible to try and fill that spot. The current tenants or the property management company?
 
10ofRods said:
It's exceedingly hard to transfer for one semester and then graduate (most schools have a residency requirement linked to accreditation - but she might not have been in a hurry, since she already had a job).

Her mom says she was paying for rent and Venmo shows she was paying for utilities. Her mom says her tuition was from a student loan (normal), but that does mean she had only so many semesters left of loans for tuition as an undergrad.

She matriculated to U of I in 2019. She probably planned to finish her units by online classes (profs tend to be less rigid about this, these days and her major was not one that required a skills demonstration as a capstone). I feel so badly for her and her parents, that she didn't get to go to graduation, that her young dreams ended this way.

I wish U of I had seen fit to award her degree if she was only 6-9 units short and had started completion of those units, but I guess I get why they didn't. I just wish they'd be more rigid about alcohol on campus. Kaylee was trying to be responsible (IMO) and combine that with being popular and ambitious.

MOO of course.


I'll have to watch again - I didn't see that moment where Dad seems to ask J if wants to say something (that makes a difference). Maybe that's why there was that look toward the end. I agree that most fathers would be feeling ambivalent toward Ex BF in a situation like this (mine would have been livid about the not answering of the phone calls).
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My daughter went to Clarkson University. Her Jr & Senior yrs were in an apartment off campus, but considered campus housing. (Confusing, I know) Her loans + our parent plus loans covered her apartment & living expenses. They would have covered it even if the apartment wasn't considered campus housing. IMOO through ME with 2 daughters.. You can use loan $ for expenses while at college. Including car expenses to & from school, housing, food, utilities, laptops, etc. It just means you'll have higher loans after graduation.
 
Strong1 said:
I totally understand what what this says. It just seems odd that you have 6 people on one lease. If one or two were to move out then the others would have to pick up the slack as far as the rent goes? Also, if someone were to move out, who was responsible to try and fill that spot. The current tenants or the property management company?
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You get a subleaser. Person who moves out is responsible. Happens all the time in college and outside of college
 
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