ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 37

[cottonweaver]

He wasn't interested in the girls? But says a lot of guys were talking to them at the bar? And knew exactly who was seeing them home? How do we know he wasn't drunk? At the least he was closely following the actions of the girls, obsessively, imo.

Obsessive?

or just tracked down by a a Daily Mail reporter and then grilled with questions and then later pursued on social media as a suspect? ( and so he felt he had to explain himself after going to LE of his own accord)

 

[tysonm266]

Can someone help me with a potential motive for multiple murderers to kill these four, yet leave two potential witnesses alive? I would expect a group, who thoughts things out ahead of time, to be prepared enough to make sure they left no potential witnesses. Someone would have to be the ringleader and convince the others to carry out this plan. Multiple murderers also makes mistakes more likely. Even with a murder for hire, I think it's unlikely that this would be a group of well-prepared attackers. Normal people wouldn't know where to find the kind of assassin TV has trained us to think of, nor would they have the money to pay them. And a real assassin wouldn't choose knives as their weapon. Too messy, which increases the risk to them. Makes a clean get away more difficult.

The more I've thought about it, the less I'm inclined to believe sudden rage motivated the killer/s. We've heard that LE believe the crime was targeted, but we haven't seen much about what kind of attack it was. Rageful overkill, or what. In general, rage makes people less organized and less controlled. Not quiet. I don't see someone like that sneaking into the house. Or laying in wait. Rage demands action. I'm also doubtful of the ability to maintain rage after killing two and going to the second area. I would think just the time it takes to change floors would be long enough to start thinking "OMG, what have I done?" Would someone having those thoughts be able to even continue in the second area? I don't know.

It's possible E was not as much of a problem as he might first appear. They've been partying until the wee hours and have only been asleep a short while, and it's the time of night where the body is at lowest ebb. I haven't read anything about E's personality, skills or habits, so I have no idea whether he would even attempt to stand his ground against an armed intruder or try to escape the room and get help. The former would be heroic, the latter totally human and understandable.

Hatred killings are the ones I find most difficult to understand. The mass shooters that immediately spring to mind don't seem to care whether they lived at the end of things or not. They just want to kill/punish as many of the people they hate as they can. Although I did read of several stabbing mass murders, I haven't read any detailed information about those cases. It does feel like these killers didn't want to be caught, and that he/they either killed everyone they came to kill, or were sufficiently disorganized that they didn't make sure they had found everyone in the house. And I'm back to whether the locked doors would be a real obstacle to a determined hate killer.

I would love to think the investigation will progress a lot after the holidays, and it certainly may. But I wonder if the killer/s remained in the area at all, or will return to the area. A professional killer (although I don't agree with that scenario right now) would not stay around and wait to be caught. They have no reason to do that, and their best defense is to disappear for good. A rage killer might be shocked by their own actions and possibly seem different to friends and family. Agitated, worried, brooding. Perhaps even nightmares. I can't imagine such a person would go back to Idaho and wait for the police to figure things out. The hate mass killer might feel quite justified with their actions. Would they welcome the eventual chance to tell why they did it? I don't know. Either way, the police may end up having to extradite someone from another state. IMHO.

You have to remember that it's well documented that physopaths do not show empathy and whomever did this is obviously that type IMO

 

[Diddian]

This sentence in your post jumped out at me - "You simply don't dispatch of four humans using only a KNIFE (one being a 6 ft?? 20 yr old male) "without creating a chaotic "ruckus".....yet this is exactly what occurred", and I strongly agree with your comment that "the odds of these students coming into contact with a killer this proficient seem very remote". Whoever did this didn't just have blind luck on his side - this guy knew exactly what he was doing - what really strikes me is that, in order to even consider committing this crime, and then following through, there must have been an underlying enormous confidence that he could do so. That confidence IMHO was not related to psychopathy or simiar. IMO it was based on previous kill successes - not as a run of the mill murderer - I suspect he has a strong military background - knows he's damned good with the physical skill required, but also, he's a highly skilled strategist, able to competently handle any unforeseen circumstances/collateral damage. IMO this was a professional hit. Someone was prepared to pay a "professional" to eliminate at least one of the victims. I have no idea why. I'm wondering if there is something far more serious than a personal vendetta. going on. Maybe one or more of the victims was trying to "fight the good fight",and someone else was prepared to pay money to sort this issue out. JMO thwe vnei n thissomething ti"e served previous

Would you please clarify what you meant to say in that last sentence (after JMO...)?

It looks like your fingers were somewhere other than intended on the keyboard.

 

[NuttMegg]

Obsessive?

or just tracked down by a a Daily Mail reporter and then grilled with questions and then later pursued on social media as a suspect? ( and so he felt he had to explain himself after going to LE of his own accord)

He didn't have to answer any DM reporters or youtubers. What came out of his mouth is his own responsibility.

And I haven't followed those sites that you say treated him as a suspect, nor have I said anything about his being a suspect.

I don't know why he inserted himself into the story, or why he watched the girls so closely over time at the bar and at the grub truck.

 

[NuttMegg]

Just because someone's behavior is noticeable to others, it doesn't make people noticing it obsessive.

I think so, yes. He watch them over time. If the girls disgusted him so much, why would he insert himself into the story via an international newspaper, and via video which ended up on youtube.

Imo

 

[cottonweaver]

He didn't have to answer any DM reporters or youtubers. What came out of his mouth is his own responsibility.

And I haven't followed those sites that you say treated him as a suspect, nor have I said anything about his being a suspect.

I don't know why he inserted himself into the story, or why he watched the girls so closely over time at the bar and at the grub truck.

So we must have read the same article then. Linked below.


these comments at Mail don't come across as obsessive to me.
I also wouldn't describe an eye witness who goes to LE the day after a murder as somebody who's ' inserting' but y'know different strokes, different folks.

'The day after news of the murders broke, Vidot realized that he had some information that police could use in the investigation, so he reached out to authorities.

'The only thing that I was able to do is verify the timeline and tell police that they got into the car,' he said.'

let's hope all future witnesses are equally forthcoming

Blueprints show where each Idaho student was found stabbed to death

Unearthed blueprints and layout plans of the off-campus house where four Idaho college students were brutally stabbed to death reveal where each of the friends were found slain earlier this month.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[indicolite22]

I think so, yes. He watch them over time. If the girls disgusted him so much, why would he insert himself into the story. Imo

He was there, so he is a potential witness. I'm sure his name was also dug up by internet sleuths.

 

[CityKid]

Yeah, but entering a home with five cars in front and not knowing the way around the house, don't know a random stalker would do that. The killer already took a lot of risk, but this would even bring it to a whole new level.

That's what's making me think the killer(s) knew what was going on in the house and a way to gain access through the back.

 

[Nila Aella]

Can someone help me with a potential motive for multiple murderers to kill these four, yet leave two potential witnesses alive? I would expect a group, who thoughts things out ahead of time, to be prepared enough to make sure they left no potential witnesses. Someone would have to be the ringleader and convince the others to carry out this plan. Multiple murderers also makes mistakes more likely. Even with a murder for hire, I think it's unlikely that this would be a group of well-prepared attackers. Normal people wouldn't know where to find the kind of assassin TV has trained us to think of, nor would they have the money to pay them. And a real assassin wouldn't choose knives as their weapon. Too messy, which increases the risk to them. Makes a clean get away more difficult.

Snipped for focus

Reason for two survivors:
His knife dulled or broke
He noticed the police outside
He was injured
Murphy started barking
Survivors were not targeted

All MOO
edit: added snipped for focus

 

[Diddian]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

Here are three photos from the original Zillow listing of the property. The first is the top of the stairway from 2nd to 3rd floor and the second and third are top of the stairway from 1st to 2nd floor, leading into living room. (These photos have now been removed from that site but the areas in photos 2 and 3 are also visible in the TikTok video that the roommates produced, where they were imitating each other.)

 

[debirlfan]

Was day and time of the attack carefully selected in advance? No classes on Sunday, fewer people around at 3am. An all-night party at the house could have spoiled the plan.

Were the house parties generally posted in advance on social media? Or did one of the roommates post something along the lines of 'quiet weekend planned' or the like? Killer might have known some time ahead that this was his chance.

 

[hopewell]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

Here are three photos from the original Zillow listing of the property. The first is the top of the stairway from 2nd to 3rd floor and the second and third are top of the stairway from 1st to 2nd floor, leading into living room. (These photos have now been removed from that site but the areas in photos 2 and 3 are also visible in the TikTok video that the roommates produced, where they were imitating each other.)

Gotcha. Thanks for that! Was there a door at the bottom?

 

[pandaknows]

I think this is a very wrong line of thinking. Just because the killer did what he did doesn't mean he is abnormal (or at least doesn't appear to be to the public). Similar cases to this one were mentioned in the thread, but let's focus on the - 2004 Napa murders or Daniel Marsh. Both were individuals who appeared normal on the outside and people couldn't really fathom that they could do something like that. Sure, Marsh had his quirks, but friends nevertheless seemed shocked at what he did. Both were inexperienced and had no prior killings to their name. Both were stabbings (personal and rage filled). Both killers left little to no trace and in the case of Daniel Marsh he basically left virtually no evidence for the police to followt. Marsh at the time was only 15 and while his victims were very old, he was still basically just a kid. And if he wasn't for his bragging and basically confessing (with his friends and girlfriend initially took as a joke) he likely would have never been caught

I fail to see why a 20 year old student wouldn't be able to kill 3 girls. Ethan would be the only one to put up a fight given his large stature, but against a combat knife and being drunk and sleepy, nobody has a chance.

Look at the Delphi killer. People were speculating for years how brazen and experienced he must have been to just escape like that, leave little evidence and be capable of such brutality. Turns out the guy is just your average Joe with a happy family and everything. There's really absolutely nothing that would make you think this guy is a killer.

I don't know the personality of the killer or anything about his personal life, but I do know this with almost a certainty - he likely knew the house, hated the victims personally or what they represented, planned this for some time and knew the area exceptionally well. The area is specifically a huge clue because this guy went in and out without so much as being tracked apart from some ghost car we don't know if its' related or not. And I bothered researching the area - it's literally built like a maze. There's only two roads leading out of the whole area - through Taylor Ave where there are a bunch of cameras or Walenta Dr from which there are only two real "escape routes" from. The rest are dead ends. This speaks volumes as to the knowledge of the killer of the area to me. He either lives there, has lived there or knows the area very well (parties and such).

You also have to take into account that "picking the urge to kill" is highly unlikely given that he either knew when the victims would be home or he stalked the house extensively prior to them going to bed. The reason for that is that certainly this guy didn't just wake up one day and said "hey, i'm just gonna go out to this house and kill at 3:00-5:00 AM in the morning". He specifically waited for these victims, who came home late, to go to sleep. If he wanted to kill for the sake of killing, the roommates downstairs were there earlier.

Not many people are precise. The level of precision is creepy.

 

[Diddian]

Gotcha. Thanks for that! Was there a door at the bottom?

I can't answer that with certainty as there were no photos once available on that site of that area.

However, I would think it odd as such a door would have to swing into the opening of the first floor entry door.

 

[Trebor5591]

I concur with most of this. My gut tells me this is a very proficient killer... victims in their beds notwithstanding. You simply don't dispatch of four humans using only a KNIFE (one being a 6ft?? 20 yr old male) without creating a chaotic *ruckus*......yet this is exactly what occurred. I don't subscribe to the notion that this was a personal vendetta with one or more of the victims...the odds of these students coming into contact with a killer this proficient seem very remote to me. More likely they were *targeted* to fulfill the killer's urge. I'm certain the FBI is taking a very close look at the previous incidents in Oregon and Washington over the last 2 years. MOO.

This is just my opinion, and not meant to disparage the victims in any way--they all seemed to be good kids, just living the life of college students, partying it up. And I agree a knife normally wouldn't be an effective weapon against 4 strong young people. But remember, the KBar knife is a huge knife, designed by the military as a "fighting knife"--designed to kill and/or incapacitate enemy combatants. KBars have great grips and a huge 10"in blade with non slip grips.

The victims lived in the "party house". Immediately previous to their stabbings, they were all out "clubbing"--i.e. likely drinking heavily and perhaps doing other drugs....in my opinion the blood tests as part of the autopsies will show how impaired they actually were. Remember the video at the food truck showed the victims literally staggering due to the amount of alcohol they ingested, in my opinion. To top it off, they then went home and were in the process of "sleeping it off"--sleeping heavily, when the attacks occurred. So that was a significant reason why these knife attacks were successful against these young people--they were probably in a deep sleep, perhaps even "passed out", and were attacked in their sleep by a strong man with a military grade "fighting knife." Those poor kids didn't have a chance, in my opinion.

 

[IspyWithMyBigEye]

This sentence in your post jumped out at me - "You simply don't dispatch of four humans using only a KNIFE (one being a 6 ft?? 20 yr old male) "without creating a chaotic "ruckus".....yet this is exactly what occurred", and I strongly agree with your comment that "the odds of these students coming into contact with a killer this proficient seem very remote". Whoever did this didn't just have blind luck on his side - this guy knew exactly what he was doing - what really strikes me is that, in order to even consider committing this crime, and then following through, there must have been an underlying enormous confidence that he could do so. That confidence IMHO was not related to psychopathy or simiar. IMO it was based on previous kill successes - not as a run of the mill murderer - I suspect he has a strong military background - knows he's damned good with the physical skill required, but also, he's a highly skilled strategist, able to competently handle any unforeseen circumstances/collateral damage. IMO this was a professional hit. Someone was prepared to pay a "professional" to eliminate at least one of the victims. I have no idea why. I'm wondering if there is something far more serious than a personal vendetta. going on. Maybe one or more of the victims was trying to "fight the good fight",and someone else was prepared to pay money to sort this issue out. JMO thwe vnei n thissomething ti"e served previous

How do we know he wasn’t carrying a gun too? Just because he didn’t use it doesn’t mean he didn’t have one for back-up. I don’t think this murderer is some tough, strong, confident being with great physical skill you’ve described: I think he’s a weakling, probably a weed, an insignificant nobody, and a massive coward. Why else would he strike when his prey were asleep and unable to respond to the slash of his knife before they could even wake? He’s nothing but a putrid cowardly weed and that’s why he attacked at night when they were fast asleep.

Under normal circumstances he’d have been a cry baby had the tall strong Ethan been fully awake and grabbed hold of him. This weakling wasn’t proficient, clever or strong - he just attacked when everyone was deep in sleep - unconscious if you like. What’s proficient about that? And he didn’t know exactly what he was doing - because he missed the two girls downstairs. Either through ignorance and not realising they were there, or he got scared at something and scarpered before finishing off what he set out to do.

I do think LE must be putting much thought into why this vile perp didn’t kill the other two girls - and that could be the key to tracking him down. Yes, it could be due to his ignorance and not realising they were there, but it could be that he’d slaughtered his target/targets.

As for him being paid as a hitman - why would a hitman use a knife when it’d be far quicker and easier to use a pistol with a silencer. A couple of shots to each targets head and the job would be done in an instant. He was no hitman - he wanted to feel the twisted pleasure of hacking their bodies to bits. He’s a putrid weak sadist full of inadequacies, hatred, jealousy and venom.

I agree he had some luck in not being seen, but IMO he knew the whole layout of the area and the inside of the house too. It’s worth noting that whilst Kaylee and Maddy were captured on the neighbours Ring camera entering their house, there’s no video of him entering. Yes I know Xana and Ethan weren’t captured on the Ring, either, so they obviously must have entered another way (or from the back). But if the killer was a random he was incredibly lucky he wasn’t picked up on the Ring, so he was either aware of that camera, or had amazing luck by entering from the back.

I am convinced he’ll be caught sooner than we think, too. I don’t think he’s clever at all, especially if it’s the one I think needs to be questioned again.

 

[jacko241]

I can't remember the names of the perpetrators, but this does remind me of the murder of a young woman by male friends of hers while she was house sitting. They videoed the entire event, and did it just for the thrill of killing, saying the wanted to be serial killers.

 

[sunshineray]

I'm trying to figure out how many of those things apply to me.

A car obsessively cleaned. Check
A comment that seemed off. Check
Unexpected absence from work. Check
A phone left unattended in someone’s room. Check
A change in demeanor before and after. Check
Following case updates. Check
Buying bleach. Check
Browsing history. Check (Seriously, I shudder to think what anyone would surmise viewing my browsing history from researching the things discussed in this forum.)

Yikes!

You know what I've been wondering...With this house being described as having friends over and parties quite a lot, did the girl's have a cleaning service? Likewise, do these frat houses employ a cleaning service? If the common areas are routinely cleaned by a service, while the bedrooms are kept up mostly by the residents, the forensics may be less complicated regarding where certain people's DNA may show up.

 

[indicolite22]

Snipped for focus

Reason for two survivors:
His knife dulled or broke
He noticed the police outside
He was injured
Murphy started barking
Survivors were not targeted

All MOO
edit: added snipped for focus

He didn't know there were other bedrooms
He didn't know there were other roommates
He didn't know they were home
Their bedroom doors were locked

 

[debirlfan]

It's possible, but how probable? IMO if more than one person is involved (local or not) they arrived and left together. The alternative complicates things.

If there was a second person involved, imo they just dropped off and picked up, and did not participate in the knifing.

Actually, now that I think about it - it's possible that the driver might not have known the perp intended to kill. What if driver is told that perp is going there to slash tires/vandalize the house/steal something/drug buy? And driver doesn't find out perp's true intentions until picking him up? Driver is now going to be terrified that either they'll be arrested, or perp will kill them.