ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 37

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And then I’m so curious what they did after they arrived home. Going to sleep is, of course, an option, but wondering if other guests joined them at the house.

The Uber driver said they were excited to get home and eat the food they just got at the Grub Truck, so that had to take a few mins to eat... I wonder if they may of had more alcohol drinks when they got home to have with dinner?
 
Or maybe E and X were fighting with an intruder and the calls to Kaylee's ex were trying to get help. Most of us would have called police under those circumstances, unless maybe K and M knew the intruder. Maybe the intruder was actually a guest who was there that evening and they didn't want LE involved.

All MOO.
One possibility is that their phones reconnected with the house wifi at that time. MOO

The car driver who dropped them off would know.
 
The Uber driver said they were excited to get home and eat the food they just got at the Grub Truck, so that had to take a few mins to eat... I wonder if they may of had more alcohol drinks when they got home to have with dinner?
OP was referring to E and X, not the girls. MOO
 
We have no suggestion that E and X were in a car. If they were coming straight from the frat house (unknown if true), they probably would have just walked as it's very close. MOO
No-this was in response to my thinking g that e and x could have been killed before the girls got home.
 
The Uber driver said they were excited to get home and eat the food they just got at the Grub Truck, so that had to take a few mins to eat... I wonder if they may of had more alcohol drinks when they got home to have with
The Uber driver said they were excited to get home and eat the food they just got at the Grub Truck, so that had to take a few mins to eat... I wonder if they may of had more alcohol drinks when they got home to have with dinner?
True for K and M, but I was wondering about X and E, too. If they returned to the house around 1:45, then what? Straight to bed or were they with anyone else/have anyone else over.
 
The specificity with which they refer to the car makes me believe that it wasn't an eyewitness. So it had to be caught on some camera. The camera on the front of that house isn't a Ring camera, yet K's sister A said she found the footage of the Uber delivering M&K home on a Ring camera. It's possible that people have begun to refer to all residential wireless cameras as Rings, but I'm inclined to believe there must be another camera, a Ring camera, possibly with a better view of the front of the house.
 
Reading backwards so this may have been thought of but it’s possible e and x were killed first since that timeline is more unknown (maybe after 130 given known time of downstairs roomates). Then he would have been in the house and able to wait until it was quiet-esp if he did not know the bottom two were there.
JMO With regards to the timeline, it seems to me that the killer was in the house prior to them arriving home. Do we know which of the four was the first victim? (I’m trying to be respectful in wording the questions- please forgive). It would seem that whomever was first was the main target. I keep hoping that an arrest will be any time now.
 
No-this was in response to my thinking g that e and x could have been killed before the girls got home.
The only problem with this thinking is x and E had a room on the second floor, and the girls were on the third floor. If they were going to eat their grub food, the kitchen was also on the second floor. And, if E was found the next day, presumably he was outside the room, seen by the girls then. Presumably.
 
Hazing to murder is a huge, huge step. Never heard of any such incident.

And that's not what the discussion was about. I used hazing incidents (and alcohol incidents and sexual assaults) as examples of things that college students MIGHT want to cover up.

There are hazing cases at U of I. They have invested a lot of money in trying to solve the issue. It exists. And it is something that can get a Greek house on probation or worse. So can underage drinking (but that is much more prevalent and apparently not considered as dire a situation as hazing, as it doesn't have as many separate committees, counsels, articles and policies about it.

Source: U of I website, administrative/About pages.

Someone who was about to lose their home on campus due to a report of [some banned activity that results in fraternities being closed down] might have a motive. All three of the women victims were in sororities that were put on probation via a clause that INCLUDES hazing - and there are only two Greek houses in that category. All three moved out of those sororities. I believe that none of the three victims were continuing to pay sorority dues - but that's just my guess - they were once members, so they will always be considered members by some of their sorority sisters.

Someone who might lose their home on campus AND be kicked out of school might have an even greater motive.

This is speculation regarding MOTIVE. No one has claimed that 4 deaths of upper classmen are hazing. Quite the opposite. More likely that junior and senior students were much more aware of the nuances of Greek life than freshmen. People talk.

I simply said that someone might have had a secret (and I can think of at least a dozen other types of secrets - but the entire investigation of the sororities has been kept very down low and secretive - someone, somewhere knows the details).

If anyone thinks that the students in the Greek life don't constantly talk about each other and various other houses in their world, I believe that person is mistaken. It can get out of control - and at some point, can engage police or university interest. There are two cases in Moscow, in particular, that are quite suspicious and perplexing, to me at least. Actually, there's a third case that's still apparently being looked into...not a death but also not resolved within the legal system. Police did respond.
 
The only problem with this thinking is x and E had a room on the second floor, and the girls were on the third floor. If they were going to eat their grub food, the kitchen was also on the second floor. And, if E was found the next day, presumably he was outside the room, seen by the girls then. Presumably.

There is no evidence that he was found outside his room. What we know about the 911 call seems to say otherwise.

But, we won't know for sure until we know for sure. If he was outside his room, dead, then I find it very strange that the roommates called friends first and not 911.
 
No-this was in response to my thinking g that e and x could have been killed before the girls got home.
I suppose that's possible but I don't understand the reference to a driver when we don't know of any driver other than the safe-ride service that dropped off K and M.

Are you suggesting that that driver might have seen something at the house when he dropped off the girls? I'm sure he's been interviewed so LE knows anything he might have seen.
 
The only problem with this thinking is x and E had a room on the second floor, and the girls were on the third floor. If they were going to eat their grub food, the kitchen was also on the second floor. And, if E was found the next day, presumably he was outside the room, seen by the girls then. Presumably.
Respectfully-there’s nothing we have seen that says that. I dont think he was. I think e and x were in her room. Now granted there are a tonnof other problems with my theory (blood in the hall probably would have been seen by the girls?

As for what was seen the next day—if the surviving roomates saw anything if might have been blood in the home but I don’t think it was a body.
 
This has been a question of much discussion in my household. Two of us are college professors. Most classes at U of Idaho were being held in the real world. I noticed that K's name was not on the list of graduates at the recent graduation, so she must have had coursework to complete. In fact, I find it hard to believe she didn't have at least 9-12 units, given that she was graduating a semester early and had done an internship (rather than stay in Moscow and do coursework) during the summer. Maybe there were more online classes during the summer.

K arrives in Moscow around mid-August (August 11?) and the party at 1122 King Road is Sept 1. She is on body cam in August for a noise complaint (at 1122 King Road). Her mother says she came home about 10 days before Nov 12, so let's say around Nov 2. It doesn't sound like she was planning to come back again until graduation. It's possible she found shorter courses (accelerated courses) to finish her units, but units are units, and that would be an unusual way to finish out a degree (accelerated courses are usually lower division courses, for what I hope are obvious reasons).

Why did she leave early? Getting a paid internship during the summer is quite an accomplishment, and may have signaled a career change for her (University president announced her major as General Studies when he gave his press release regarding the tragedy). How did she find the internship? She had over 50,000 followers at the time of her death (and almost 60,000 now). That's a lot of social contacts. We know nothing about her online interactions with this growing group of people - nor do we know what aspects of her content on instagram drew that many followers. Was she networking nationwide?

Her lease must have been up in December, so why did she leave early? AND break up with her longterm boyfriend at around the same time? The break-up is said to have occurred about 10 days before she went back home (so let's say Oct 24ish).

This is a lot of change for even a young person. It's possible she had only lower division requirements to complete (say, an English course) and got permission from a prof to work from home (students ask for that all the time - but generally, they have to have a good reason, such as illness).

Anyway, at what point did she register for fully online classes, if she did (I'm finding plenty of GE classes that were fully online). Why would a student pay for rent if they didn't have to? She apparently intended to occupy (and party at) 1122 King Road for her last semester. What changed her mind?

I'm not disrespecting her goals of having fun during her last semester at university, I'm just curious about what changed during the semester, given that she signed a lease, apparently had classes on campus (why else be there?) and then changed midstream. She apparently gave no clues to her parents, other than excitement about wanting the next phase of her life to begin (which might be precisely what motivated her to move away from Moscow). Was she really going to backpack Europe by herself?
She was supposed to graduate in December, there have been murmurs that her name should have been included in the as graduating in the ceremony though it wasn't.

 
There are a couple of problems with that camera. It is a good 50 feet away from the house where the murders occurred, and pointing in the opposite direction. It could definitely see cars coming and going up and down the street toward and from the murder scene. But it would also see all the cars driving to those large apartment buildings past the house.

But more of a problem, in my mind, is that these cameras use wifi to interface with an app on a cell phone. Footage is stored locally, not on the cloud like a Ring camera. Many, if not most people that use these cameras turn down the sensitivity and field of view to save storage space on their phones, to save bandwidth, and to avoid getting annoying alerts every time a car drives by. There is a good chance that the camera was set to only record activity on their own property. And the wifi cameras I used tended to drop the signal at the most inopportune time.

JMHO
Yes! In my neighborhood we have neighbors that just direct the camera to the porch or their cars and others that direct it to capture the porch and roadway. MOO
 
Thank you for sharing this information. Yes, when I think of disordered thinking, I think of schizophrenia primarily. Yes, I do see it in substance use patients, as well. I also think of disordered thinking as expressing itself in disordered behavior (e.g. unable to logistically complete a task, much less plan a crime step by step and follow through. I definitely appreciate your input. I also see the disordered thinking in BPD and OCD… etc…. But it is different. I guess “disordered thinking” is a broad term, which encompasses varying degrees of such.

Thank you - yes, to me it's a very broad term. Even schizophrenia varies a bit by culture and by degree of disordered thinking.

I had to defend a post I made that stated I know schizophrenics who are high functioning (and I do) ,
 
Sure. First, let me point out that a house that size would have hundreds of samples to go through. There are several steps in the process. It's not possible, aside from blood or semen, to know where exactly DNA will be found - so lots of swabs. Here are the national stats:


Now, if your question is why, in a nation like the US, it could take this long for most places to process lab materials, the answer to that is money. That, and a lack of qualified people to run those labs. Where I live, there are people older than me putting in "just a few more months" before they retire - while their labs wait to find new hires. There aren't many. So it's not just money - but if they made the jobs pay more, I suppose eventually they'd have more recruits. They pay around $100,000 a year here for an experienced tech - which is considered "not enough" by my students looking for a program of study. Naturally, it takes a degree in science - preferably genetics or genetic anthropology.

Take a look at Idaho. Homicide - rush situation - is 45-60 days. And that's for each stage of this analysis. First, there would be the separation of organic particles from inorganic - with carpet fibers, clothing fibers, etc, going off for further analysis in another pace, and the biologic evidence going on for separate DNA analysis. Typically, one would want a cluster of various blood cells and samples from the autopsy. But for touch DNA, they'd need to include other detectable bits of DNA from swabs - all the swabs have to be analyzed - but only some will have DNA.

So for the two stages to take place and the touch DNA to be isolated and sent to yet another specialist, it would be 90-120 days (from receipt of samples, so let's say 7 days after the murders). I doubt they'll release any final autopsy report until all of this is done.

Since the DNA of the victims is only being used for ruling out who the perp is, that's likely been done. But now - they'll process certain swabs/samples first (getting stranger DNA from a pool of blood is not guaranteed to work - part of it will be luck). A well prepared killer would leave very little touch DNA. The DNA from all around the house (door jambs, door knobs, faucets, etc) will likely turn up dozens of partial profiles.

The sorting of partial profiles into meaningful perp data may or may not work and can take months. They would have little bits of a strand that we can picture as string - a piece of string that would reach to the moon and back 150,000 times. Almost none of it is useful for the task at hand - just little areas that contain SNP's (markers unique to families, lineages and sometimes, individuals).

If they get lucky and do have, say, spit from the perp or the perp cut himself or lost a glove, they can move on to trying to find him through genealogical DNA analysis in as early as 6 months, maybe even less. If they think they know who he is, then they'll be trying to get trace DNA from him by the usual investigative means.

I am guessing that within just the bedroom zone of the two rooms, they're going to find DNA profiles of more than 2 people.

Did you know that even washing, with bleach, does not destroy all the DNA in underwear? And that women's underwear has been used to track their killers or to create a list of possible suspects? So the forensic vacuum contents could contain lots and lots of profiles - including people who lived in the house a year or more before. It's kind of a forensic nightmare.

People are used to saying that "rapid DNA results" occur - yes, they do. If you give an actual cheek swab and it goes directly into lab solution. Can be overnight, if the tech is available. But the murderer isn't going to give that kind of sample - and the victims' blood types and DNA are already known (and only useful to exclude stranger DNA, really).
how long have students been on campus at U of I? Just asking because maybe with the COVID shut down there was a somewhat recent thorugh cleaning or cleaning of rooms between roommates that might have eliminated some "old" DNA. Seems in a "party house" there would still be a lot but maybe only 6 mos or 1yr of samples?
 
Or maybe E and X were fighting with an intruder and the calls to Kaylee's ex were trying to get help. Most of us would have called police under those circumstances, unless maybe K and M knew the intruder. Maybe the intruder was actually a guest who was there that evening and they didn't want LE involved.

All MOO.

The only evidence we have of the content of those texts/calls is Kaylee's sister who says the content was regarding the fact that they shared a dog.

IMO.
 
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