ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 37

[Sister Golden Hair]

It is very possible that it’s a “thing.” Because whoever did this is likely a psychopath and if they are a serial offender, and it’s for “entertainment,” then we can only guess at the victimology.

Thank you for responding - I was hoping you would. I'm not sure that the idea of this makes it better, but imo, it's just good to think about the possibility. jmo imo.

 

[rsd1200]

Was just trying to picture the neighborhood a little better, so googled the address. Upon using street view from Oct, 2021,noticed the white car pulled off the road, in what appears to be next door to the students house.Just my observation and someone else may have already noticed this. Just an observation.

I saw one on the street, not sure it was the same view or car that you saw. Thangs that make ya go hummmm.

 

[AngTxGal]

Math again. Nooooo.

That’s why this case is difficult. There are too many possibilities and too many unknowns.

The common factor that ties these victims together is lifestyle.

Whether someone resentful or judgmental of the lifestyle put an end to it or did it to send a message

Or

someone within the lifestyle had a grievance with these individuals or felt threatened by them and acted to eliminate the threat…

remains to be seen.

I still think it’s a good possibility all 4 were targeted. More wounds on an individual could mean more resistance or the killer could simply have gotten tired. Or perhaps that assumption is incorrect. Or perhaps some were attacked through blankets and some were not.

Moscow LE will solve this. This is their town and no stone will be left unturned. It’s just a matter of time.

MOO

The victims are linked by
- age group
- university students
- social circles
- house found in
- lifestyle is a product of the other links

So the question is, is the perp also linked to them?

JMO

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

HOMICIDE. MOSCOW PD. HOMICIDE UNIT.
@DizzyB post commented about Moscow PD.

@samanthadaniels1995 Yes, homicides occur in Moscow.
A report covering 2007 thru 2019 shows 7 homicides in 11 yrs.*
"Full-time law enforcement employees in 2019, including police officers: 45 (37 officers)."*

Unless MPD has 'imported' homicide personnel from other LE agencies, seems MPD's homegrown investigators do not have deep, wide homicide experience.

@DizzyB
Can a deficit in that regard be remedied by assistance from other LE agencies? Like what has happened/is happening here?
Moscow PD Chief promptly requested assistance from both ID. St.Pol. and FBI which promptly started providing. Still are.

Yes, every homicide needs to be thoroughly, properly investigated no matter what the population or size of LE agency, and even if homicide frequency is one per decade.
IRL, Moscow PD is not staffed w homicide detectives, investigators, crime scene techs, lab personnel, etc. like the Top Ten Murder Cities in US.
Nor are thousands of other hamlets, villages, town, cities.
But w state LE & FBI assistance, as needed, requested & provided, homicides can be properly investigated, solved, & prosecuted.

BTW, per below, seems being/living in Moscow is
SAFER in EVEN-NUMBERED years.

----------------------------------------------------------------
* A report covering 2007 thru 2019:
2007 = 1.
2008 = 0.
2009 = 1.
2010 = 0.
2011 = 1.
2012 = 0.
2013 = 1.
2014 = 0.
2015 = 3.
2016 = 0
2017 = 0.
2018 = 0.
2019 = 0.
So, per this source: 7 homicides in 11 yrs.
^ from Crime table and info at
Moscow, Idaho (ID 83843, 83844) profile: population, maps, real estate, averages, homes, statistics, relocation, travel, jobs, hospitals, schools, crime, moving, houses, news, sex offenders
I've read on that site that crime data come from FBI UniCrimeRpt, but am not seeing it now.

Excellent post, but that number is wrong (typo perhaps?) for 2007, when we had a spree shooter murder 3 (a MPD officer, a church sexton, his wife before killing himself):
The night that shattered Moscow

I don’t mean to sound like a broken record, but this is Moscow’s third mass murder in 15 years: 2007, 2015, and now 2022. Deep sigh.

 

[scottishgal]

What about someone who had a grudge against one of the family members of one of the victims or partners of one of the victims doing thus . One target and others self defense. Could have waited long n realised it's practically impossible to get the target isolated n alone so went into a houseful .

 

[Strong1]

It just irks me that person or persons that did this are out walking around in this world. Maybe they celebrated Christmas with their families, maybe they didn't, but just the fact that they had that ability while four families suffered their worst holiday season ever because of their actions, seems like like such an injustice. I don't what LE has or doesn't have. I don't know if they have a suspect or not. But, I hope that every day they get a little closer, that everyday the person or persons that did this feel the heat a little more, until they are caught and held responsible for this horrendous crime. I refuse to believe that this crime will not be solved and that these families will get the justice they so deserve.

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

About the first floor occupants discussion , Is it just me who thinks that the killer was obviously aware of the 1st floor and knew that first floor had 2 bedrooms left and right. In order not to see the 1st floor, he should have just jumped in from the woods never checking the front of the house, not crossing the road at all before, not checking the cars , the street and entrance etc which seems quite improbable. Three floored house is sitting there as clear as day.

He attacked his victims while sleeping avoiding shouts. So imo either their door/doors were locked and they would wake up if he tried to unlock, or he felt /heard they were awake, or maybe just speculation he found out one room and bed was empty and he panicked they might be awake and ran away. There may be other reasons of course why he skipped them. Jmo

 

[scottishgal]

It just irks me that person or persons that did this are out walking around in this world. Maybe they celebrated Christmas with their families, maybe they didn't, but just the fact that they had that ability while four families suffered their worst holiday season ever because of their actions, seems like like such an injustice. I don't what LE has or doesn't have. I don't know if they have a suspect or not. But, I hope that every day they get a little closer, that everyday the person or persons that did this feel the heat a little more, until they are caught and held responsible for this horrendous crime. I refuse to believe that this crime will not be solved and that these families will get the justice they so deserve.

This

 

[LetsSolvIt]

Apologize if these podcasts have been brought up before but posting on this thread moves so quickly I haven’t been able to read every single page.

Joseph Scott Morgan has given two podcasts on this case, where he discusses many aspects of the forensics, procedural questions, context, pace of information release, why the Elantra, and more details that may answer some of your questions.

One big takeaway is that Joe Scott supports the pace of investigation and LE not releasing much information. He says with four bloody deaths in a group house routinely the site of huge gatherings from study groups to parties and sleepovers, and with tracking the pre-death activities of the four individuals, the amount of evidence to collect and process is like reading War & Peace, not a first-grade primer (paraphrasing JSM).

Body Bags — Nov. 22:

Four Dead Students in Moscow, Idaho - The Search for a Killer Continues

Four University of Idaho students are brutally murdered in their home in Moscow, Idaho on November 13th, 2022. Police suspect that the murder took place between

podcasts.apple.com

Body Bags — Dec. 12:

The Idaho College Murders Continued - Updates and Analysis

Four University of Idaho students are brutally murdered in their home in Moscow, Idaho on November 13th, 2022. Police suspect that the murders occurred between

podcasts.apple.com

 

[citigirl]

Was she not living at n Moscow at the time of her death?

I haven’t been following closely enough.

Gitana, good to see you. Can I recommend you read through the first half or so of the first thread and some of the articles in the media thread? It would help you get your bearings, and help us also, because we are at a point in this case where it is worth someone going back to the beginning and reading through some of that now that we know so much more.

 

[jjleroche]

This opens an interesting line of thinking. Possible someone(s) had something(s) on the killer(s) that taking this incredible risk to eliminate these four people made it worth the risk? Does someone have info on (and control over) the killer(s) in some way? I don't know. For some reason, this murder isn't striking me as crazypants psycho deciding to annihilate a house full of people. MOO.

I agree. This was a very high-stakes killing, with enormous risks for the killer - achieved, with no-one any the wiser for many hours - definitely not a crazypants psycho perpetrator IMO. I firmly believe that an individual/group of individuals was very upset about a member of the victim's household being aware of something very untoward having occurred (or currently occurring), and if that information "got out", at least one, and maybe several people, would be destroyed. Hence (MOO) so a decision was made (MOO) to do something about it (permanently). IMO this was either a professional hit, or, same motive, but the individual/group of, happened to have all the requisite skills to pull it off (and I think there were several) so decided on a DIY course of action. Much has been written about the profiles of killers, and associated disorders. I would be very interested to hear from professionals in mental health and/or crime profilers regarding the traits of a professional hitman.

 

[citigirl]

For anyone who gets any type of pleasure from this stuff…the knife…was probably the point.

A knife doesn't leave a bullet that can be traced.

 

[10ofRods]

A knife doesn't leave a bullet that can be traced.

Viewed from that perspective, we see a killer who, above all, planned to commit a silent crime , using knife and anatomical knowledge. Also was aware of the DNA issues.

Those are things professional killers contemplate (sources are various, I can add some). But other perps could think the same way.

 

[jjleroche]

A knife doesn't leave a bullet that can be traced.

Exactly

 

[CrownCowboy1]

After getting a good idea about the house after all the info that's been posted about it, I find it to be somewhat of a strange layout. It's not your typical multi story house in my opinion. Maybe most don't agree with that. It just comes across that way to me.

With that said I believe the killer had to of known the layout well beforehand. This isn't a likely scenario where someone just breaks in and looks for victims to kill. It's highly unlikely in my view that this was random. It's very likely it was a targeted attack although I do not get the vibe that it was someone they knew well. In fact, I don't think the killer was within their age group. It's probable that he lives in or around Moscow and came in contact with one or more of the victims in some fashion either directly or from afar.

I suspect that LE already has a potential profile of the type of person they think could have done this and are keeping that private. Whoever did this managed to pull this off so far by either being extremely lucky or having the wherewithal and foresight to purposefully avoid leaving any incriminating evidence behind that we know of. If evidence was left behind, it isn't enough to find him and I highly doubt this person has a clean record to where he wouldn't show up on any database hits.

All my opinion.

 

[al66pine]

HOMICIDE UNITS?

Excellent post, but that number is wrong (typo perhaps?) for 2007, when we had a spree shooter murder 3 (a MPD officer, a church sexton, his wife before killing himself):
The night that shattered Moscow

I don’t mean to sound like a broken record, but this is Moscow’s third mass murder in 15 years: 2007, 2015, and now 2022. Deep sigh.

@North_Idaho_Nony
Thanks for responding. I had no thought about your posts as "broken record," no apology needed.
What a horrific 2007 crime in the story you linked, sad, sad, sad.

Regardless, point of my post was--- is it feasible for a LE agency in a city like Moscow to run a robust homicide unit, when---
--- it has had X homicides over a period of Z years?

Unpopular thought, sounding cold and harsh. Maybe/likely/probably not feasible?
Does it mean that homicides aren't properly investigated? IDTS.
Imo, it means, when a homicide occurs, the PD requests assistance from St.Pol. & FBI.

I’m not being criticizing MPD but speaking more in generalities about PD’s in smallish communities, compared to larger cities like NYC, Dallas, LA, etc.

Glad that you're posting to share local insight. TYVM
________________________________________________

BTW, small point, but not claiming to have "right" numbers, just repeating numbers and their source, w link. citydata.com. for Moscow.

I just noticed my post undercounted the number of years the citydata.com Crime table covered, which was actually 13 yrs, not 11. So in calculating an average annual rate for those years, the result is lower than my post suggests.

 

[cottonweaver]

Why do you believe there is no homicide unit ? There are homicides that occur in Moscow, ID. They are near other cities. Not sure how you are assessing Moscow police capabilities.

I don't think MPD has a standalone unit just dedicated to Homicide alone. ( Which makes sense. Small dept with small number of homicides historically.
Instead, they have a 'Detective Unit' - just had a look at their website. Services Division | Moscow, ID

'Detective Unit, also a part of the Services Division, is responsible for investigating most of the major crimes that occur within the City of Moscow'

vs
Bigger cities, bigger forces, more homicides, standalone Borough Homicide Squads eg
Buffalo, NY

FAQs • Buffalo Police, NY • CivicEngage

www.bpdny.org

cc @DizzyB

 

[drmrgrl]

Do you have a link for that? Can't remember him saying he saw a Elantra?

IMO, Could the black SUV that was parked in that area have been HCs vehicle parked there later that day? With the SUV having Washington license plates? As the Chapin family lived in Washington. Chefs testimony is a little sketchy and dubious.

 

[drmrgrl]

I don’t see any reference to a white Elantra either.

IMO Chef only recalled black SUV

 

[drmrgrl]

Do you have a link? I hadn't heard about Deserty-style license plates. And did Chef say this early on? What's the date on the MSM article?

IMO, “deserty style” plates would have been on Xanas car from Arizona.