ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 38

[WildWest]

How is it a leak? I assume the business owner wanted to make it public. He's not an officer of the court, it isn't filed in evidence or sealed.

idk, I was following the chain of messages here, replying to this one, did you read it? :

ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 38

PUBLICIZING the ELANTRA SEARCH. PIC on HIWAY BILLBOARDS? .... They need highway billboards with a photo of the white Elantra asking WHO (IS SUSPICIOUS) and who drove THIS VEHICLE.... Personally I think this perp practiced before his King Rd massacre. snipped for focus @Marie A Are ST. or FED...

www.websleuths.com

Edit, wrong link corrected

 

[SRWCF]

Something just occurred to me. I've always thought the killer was stealthy and planned these murders down to the last detail (and I still believe that). I've also thought the killer perhaps dressed in a hazmat suit, complete with gloves and booties over his shoes. That being said, I could never understand how bloody shoe prints were not left at the scene. We don't know this for sure, but I assume shoeprints weren't left because wouldn't LE be able to come up with a suspect composite based on shoe size (male and possibly height)? The victims were killed IN THEIR BEDS, this we know as a fact stated by the coroner. That means the mattresses likely soaked up the majority of the blood, at least initially. I now think the killer didn't stick around long enough for any blood to pool onto the floor (sorry to be so graphic), therefore, there was none for him to track through the house!

 

[Dotta]

It could just be that the lock was broken. It could even be that it was broken because the perp had broken into the house before to check things out.

For all anyone knows he could have been the house many times before watching the girls from a closet or attic area—like the murderer of Hinterkaifeck (but I doubt it).

So,
As I understand the bedrooms where attacks happened, were NOT locked for the night?

Only those on ground floor were?

 

[cottonweaver]

How is it a leak? I assume the business owner wanted to make it public. He's not an officer of the court, it isn't filed in evidence or sealed.

I think it's interesting because multiple reporters have said, over last few weeks, that many businesses - including specifically the Corner Club - refused to speak to the media. ( Speaking only with LE)
Last reporter I heard saying this was Entin. ( I can't recall names of all the rest now.)

If those accounts are true I can't see why an owner/ owner manager would want to put the image out there. An employee maybe although IDK what the motive would be because it's not as if the motive was financial - wasn't sold to one of the big tabloids or networks. Plus, ofc, LE would already have had all the cam footage & maybe this still image is also not of probative value.

Maybe somebody's just looking to stir things up?

 

[SRWCF]

Just some info to share, not to brag about my son but to provide some some possible answers about the awake/not awake or defensive etc.

My son was a Hvwt wrestler. He was a state champion in multiple styles: Roman-Greco, Freestyle and Folkstyle as well as in many national style tournaments and on state traveling teams. As I have been thinking about this I can honestly say that even with all that training, experience and his size I do not think he would stand a chance were he to be attacked in such a manner while laying in bed asleep or semi-asleep. His core would be Horizonte and his feet would not be in contact with anything substantial to allow him to gain momentum to even defend himself. ESPECIALLY if he had been stabbed and was in a semi shocked startled awakening.

JMO

Yes, this! I don't understand why people think the victims could have reasonably fought back after being wounded in such a manner. Especially since this was such a surprise attack, waking them up from sleeping.

 

[SRWCF]

So,
As I understand the bedrooms where attacks happened, were NOT locked for the night?

Only those on ground floor were?

We do not know this. LE has not released that information.

 

[girlhasnoname]

That is my thought. The most likely source for the "leak" is the bar or someone employed there. The bar owns the video.

SQ - Would the bar own the video/pic if it was taken by a person with their own cellphone?

 

[Ozoner]

So,
As I understand the bedrooms where attacks happened, were NOT locked for the night?

Only those on ground floor were?

Like @SRWCF said, we don't know for sure. (LE might not even know for certain.)

I will say that during the times that I lived with roommates, I always locked my bedroom door when I was away in order to try to stop my roommates and their friends from stealing anything, but it never would have occurred to me to lock the door while I was in the room.

 

[Dotta]

Yes, this! I don't understand why people think the victims could have reasonably fought back after being wounded in such a manner. Especially since this was such a surprise attack, waking them up from sleeping.

The victims must have been sleeping in different positions: on the back/on stomach/on the side.
Wearing night clothes, covered by duvets.

And it all happened in nearly total darkness.

How this could be done silently is simply beyond my comprehension.

JMO

 

[10ofRods]

If he is in fact a sociopath, this is almost surely true.

Melt right back into society, even if he is friendless or nearly so. Living life just as before, but now with savoring his moment of "triumph," as he would see it.

Whether he has completed his "task" and is satiated, or whether he will strike again when the urge recurs, we don't know.

It shouldn't, but your post reminds me of the old U2 song "Stuck in a Moment." Obviously a completely different scenario in that song, in which a football player is filled with regret, not relief; but the idea of him reliving the crucial moment even as an old man somehow brought this song to my mind.

Jmo

Your post made me think of Joe DeAngelo, who escalated from B&E to rape to rape and murder, changing his MO along the way.

And then he stopped. Apparently. I have theories that he might be responsible for a couple of less-gruesome crimes near Sacramento, after the home invasions in SoCal.

I think DeAngelo stopped because he felt he'd hit some "personal best" or "lifetime achievement award" (from inside his own mind).

I hope this killer stops and considers these intense feelings to be, finally, enough.

I think it's interesting because multiple reporters have said, over last few weeks, that many businesses - including specifically the Corner Club - refused to speak to the media. ( only with LE) Last reporter I heard saying this was Entin. ( I can't recall names of all the rest now.)

If those accounts are true I can't see why an owner/ owner manager would want to put them out there. An employee maybe although IDK what the motive would be because it's not as if the image was financial - wasn't sold to one of the big tabloids or networks. Plus, ofc, LE would already have had all the cam footage.

I think business owners are free to play it either way (and even to sell their footage). Law enforcement may ask them not to, but cannot compel them not to. I think we'll see more of it. These businesses are suffering, financially. There's a reason the Grub Truck streams four channels live when it is operating (publicity works for business).

I hope LE doesn't think that scene was vital information - but it seems an awful lot like the sidewalk security video and the Grub Truck video. Now LE is practically begging locals to send in or provide more video, but students prefer not to interact with police - so they put the content up somewhere like TikTok and make it public, for the world to see - and send it also to LE or send an anonymous link if they're truly concerned about not interacting with police. IOW, LE is asking people to go search for video of any kind relating to that night, and now that people are doing that - they want to use it on their own SM. I think that's sort of a custom in certain subcultures and to be expected.

 

[SRWCF]

Like @SRWCF said, we don't know for sure. (LE might not even know for certain.)

I will say that during the times that I lived with roommates, I always locked my bedroom door when I was away in order to try to stop my roommates and their friends from stealing anything, but it never would have occurred to me to lock the door while I was in the room.

That makes total sense to me. From the pictures I see of all these roommates, they seem to have really liked each other and spent a lot of time together. I'm guessing they locked their bedroom doors only when they were out and away from the house. I think during parties, all bedroom doors were likely open and people were coming and going from those rooms. That's how parties are.

 

[PrairieWind]

SQ - Would the bar own the video/pic if it was taken by a person with their own cellphone?

No. Just video taken by the bar's surveillance cameras.

 

[Dotta]

Like @SRWCF said, we don't know for sure. (LE might not even know for certain.)

I will say that during the times that I lived with roommates, I always locked my bedroom door when I was away in order to try to stop my roommates and their friends from stealing anything, but it never would have occurred to me to lock the door while I was in the room.

Well, I always made sure to lock doors at night

 

[Palinsmom]

Idaho murders update: Police investigating item related to victim's mail

Since the killings of four students last month, police have not said anything about a suspect or person of interest, and no weapon has been found.

www.newsweek.com

I realize this was dated 12/05/22 but has there been any other info about the mail investigation?

 

[cottonweaver]

snipped to keep focussed

I think business owners are free to play it either way (and even to sell their footage). Law enforcement may ask them not to, but cannot compel them not to. I think we'll see more of it. These businesses are suffering, financially. There's a reason the Grub Truck streams four channels live when it is operating (publicity works for business).

I think we all know this - nobody thinks we're at stage of sealed evidence or compulsion & we're probably just reading too much into Coffindaffer's original use of the word.
I don't think Coffindaffer views it as literally a leak ( eg from within the investigative team)
She just disapproves of putting some case info into the public realm. ( She's using ' leak' as shorthand)

Yes businesses are suffering but think that's a separate issue. Seems a stretch to assume Corner Club owner passed a still of his own cams to Reddit in order to get more cash behind the bar


anyway, the entire point of my last post was simply to emphasise that acc to reporters on the ground, CClub owner had been tight lipped - wanting to protect the investigation.

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

Idaho murders: Police officers being offered counseling amid ongoing investigation into student deaths

University of Idaho students Ethan Chapin, 20, Kaylee Goncalves, 21, Xana Kernodle, 20, and Madison Mogen, 21, were stabbed several times and murdered on Nov. 13.

www.foxnews.com

Embedded in this MSM article is a video of Fox News visiting the Idaho State Police (ISP) Crime Lab and a brief discussion with someone at the Crime Lab about the case.

"The video was first provided to Fox News Digital Saturday by Kristine Cameron and Alina Smith, the creators and administrators of the "University of Idaho Murders - Case Discussion" Facebook group, under the condition only a still frame and audio be used.

They told Fox News Digital it was provided to them by a Moscow resident who previously submitted it to police and believes making it public can provide greater context about the incident."

My understanding is the audio has been manipulated hence the still image. There is no video in sink with the comments. Someone online said the video had been manipulated. There has been more than one incident of digital manifestation.

If so, this could lead to misleading and deceptive conduct, contempt of court, subjutice or any of the above inadvertently in my opinion only.
Why have a still and not the video clip?
This looks sketchy to say the least.

I think police should track down another image that was clearly manipulated to represent an innocent party and imply guilt. Who does that? I think police should interview that person.
AIMOO

 

[SRWCF]

I think it's interesting because multiple reporters have said, over last few weeks, that many businesses - including specifically the Corner Club - refused to speak to the media. ( Speaking only with LE)
Last reporter I heard saying this was Entin. ( I can't recall names of all the rest now.)

If those accounts are true I can't see why an owner/ owner manager would want to put the image out there. An employee maybe although IDK what the motive would be because it's not as if the motive was financial - wasn't sold to one of the big tabloids or networks. Plus, ofc, LE would already have had all the cam footage so this still image is not of probative value.

Maybe somebody's looking to stir things up.

I think some people are frustrated and want this crime solved. Those that feel they can "help" do so by speaking with the media (sometimes anonymously - like the private party driver that took K & M home) or sharing a still photo of security footage.

I feel the longer this crime goes unsolved, the more of these tidbits of information will come out. For the integrity of the case, I wish these details would stay confidential, but I will say that the sleuth in me does enjoy new hints to make or break my current theories.

 

[GGbankster]

Yeah, I think any DNA results that stem from this will only be used to rule out folks, unfortunately (fortunately for them, of course). Unless it is a good sample, and the killer is in the database or has already volunteered his for testing, it is doubtful that it will lead to an actual perpetrator. I think that's why they released the car information to the public, because that will get them onto someone far quicker.

I wish I shared your's and many others' optimism that this is someone on or near campus, but the car still being unidentified at this stage in the investigation, and the assumed fact that a car was used in the get away at all, has me quite doubtful that it was anyone in the general region. Hope so for a quick resolution, but am not confident in those theories at all.

My opinion.

Moo, in all likelihood, LE may have an idea as to who the owner of the Hyundai Elantra owing to their recent interviews and press releases which was more informative but remained vague at best. It’s interesting that LE is still looking for the occupants of the vehicle yet both Chief Fry and Officer Snell’s very recent interviews fails to mention the car, at the very least, the whole interview were about their search for context, perhaps to reconstruct an order of “event”. These recent interviews grants them an opportunity to share their inquisition into the “context”, not the car, or the perp.

Moo, If LE have absolutely nothing, they would have release a video (imo, they have seen a video evidence of the car being in the immediate area) but they have yet to release digital evidence or at least an image of the actual car. The Hyundai Elantra pictures they were willing to distribute was a standard stock portrait of the car model, make and year, which would have the descriptions and features of the car in question. There are several unverified footages which were circulated soon after their announcement but the real footage of the car in question hasn’t been release by Le. Moo, they’re telling us that it’s more important to keep whatever images or video evidence they have out of public. One would think that sharing an actual video of the Elantra would encourage possible witnesses to send in a valuable tip, it’s apparent that’s not their priority. Moo, my apologies for being redundant, but I thought it’s important to reiterate that LE is on a mission of collecting digital evidence. Their methods thus far is developing a theory to get the full context of how the murder occurred, they believe that the missing “context” will lead them to a circumstantial links pointing to their POI.

Moo, there are various cases when LE lacks sufficient information to uncover a poi, thus releasing critical information such as DNA phenotyping and behavioral analysis maybe beneficial to their investigation. They did none of the above, they probably have an idea as to who they should be focusing on. In addition, I believe they have a DNA as they stated previously in several interviews and press releases summarizing number of physical evidence collected. Thus far, their inquiries have been about tracing the steps before, during and after the murder (time, locations, video evidence of any kind between those time indicated by LE), their query largely focuses on digital evidence. Perhaps they’re eliminating possibilities and validating events hence they were able to clear some people close to the victims.

Maybe I’m more optimistic.

Moo.

 

[jjleroche]

Sure!
First, both of these interviews were very early on, the first weekend after the murders. Feelings were still very raw.

In the Fox interview, Lawrence Jones, the interviewer is asking:

LJ: We keep hearing this name Jack and phone calls going back and forth. Can you tell us anything about that?
To me, this strongly implies that he is asking about that last series of calls.

In the responding answers:
SG: One of her messages, one of her last messages, she reached out to Jack and said Jack, get back to me. And he didn't, and she goes we share a dog together, which they did. She's like you need to reach out to me.

Immediately after SG says that, K's mom says this:
K's mom: Please come over. She was wanting Jack to come over.
She was wanting Jack to come over.

This parallels the statement she made in the NBC interview, while indisputably discussing that last series of calls:

K's mom: Yeah, and we know who she was calling and this person is, this person was asleep, unfortunately, was not getting the calls. And it was a few calls between, for half an hour she called him a couple times and, but, no, we do not believe she was calling him for help. We believe that she was just calling him to come over.
We believe that she was just calling him to come over.

While we can't be positive, the context strongly leads me to believe that SG was also talking about that last series of calls, between 2:30 and 2:52am.

ETA: Inserted linksThank you

Thank you Layer. Very interesting.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Just some info to share, not to brag about my son but to provide some some possible answers about the awake/not awake or defensive etc.

My son was a Hvwt wrestler. He was a state champion in multiple styles: Roman-Greco, Freestyle and Folkstyle as well as in many national style tournaments and on state traveling teams. As I have been thinking about this I can honestly say that even with all that training, experience and his size I do not think he would stand a chance were he to be attacked in such a manner while laying in bed asleep or semi-asleep. His core would be Horizonte and his feet would not be in contact with anything substantial to allow him to gain momentum to even defend himself. ESPECIALLY if he had been stabbed and was in a semi shocked startled awakening.

JMO

I totally agree. My daughter’s bf is a weightlifter, and competes regularly, he’s a strong well built guy, but he has said, he feels the most vulnerable when he’s asleep, that’s why they’ve got tight security at their home.

And to add, back in my young years, I would be in an extremely deep sleep those first couple of hours after falling asleep, there could be the biggest commotion and I’d sleep through it, if I had a couple to drink, even more so.

The killer chose the best time but still took a huge chance and unfortunately, was lucky, one or more victims didn’t wake to use the bathroom, or go to the kitchen, to snack, as far as we know.
I have wondered what his plan was if that happened, would he risk continuing the attack while one of the victims called 911? Who is he?!
JMO