ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 38

[10ofRods]

I thought the forensic testing was being done out of a ISPFS lab!?

'Scientists from Idaho State Police Forensic Services have been "working 24/7 in the lab" to try to get results as quickly as possible, Snell previously said.

Idaho police say first crime lab results received after student murders

The first round of forensic testing is usually the separation of gathered evidence into various categories (primarily organic vs inorganic) in preparation for DNA tests.

Incomplete DNA samples (possibly including swabs from door jambs, door knobs, etc - although I think this killer wore gloves) take much longer to identify, separate, process, study and, if possible, reunite into a more complete/usable DNA profile.

I have posted the times for expedited DNA study in Idaho (ISP labs) several times (45-60 days - RUSH). And the first process (initial forensic sample testing) is also 45-60 days.

Naturally, if you have an actual body and blood for the body, a mobile DNA unit can process such a clearcut sample in a short period of time (less than an hour if they want to). However, all that does is give you each of victims' DNA maps. This is necessary to look for stranger DNA, but I believe that there was tons of non-victim DNA in that house (DNA persists a very long time, withstands hot water, cleaning agents, even bleach, etc, etc)

I do not think DNA is going to help much in solving this crime unless they already have a suspect or suspects in mind. And even then, it will just be internal confirmation of the rest of the investigation, because unless the killer(s) spit on the victims or cut themselves and left blood drops, their skin cell/partial DNA will be tiny and even if admixed with victim blood, there's probably also *other* non-victim trace DNA in the same blood samples (from the floor).

DNA persists on people's clothing. It gets transferred.

DNA from workers in China shows up transferred to other clothing by washing machines.

If the perp has ever been in the house (and since the house was unsupervised and caught on LE camera being unsupervised with non-residents galore inside the house on Sept 1 - and probably Sept 2 as well), they can say there is an innocent reason for their DNA to be among the profiles of several other profiles.

And, btw, except for *very* broad pictures painted (mostly) by Y chromosome analysis, there is no way to use a partial sample (or even a full sample) to fully assess "race" (whatever that is), but just general ancestry. Fun fact: Australian aborigines, isolated from any other continent for 40,000 years, are closest in genome to ethnic Chinese - who appeared in China around 6000 years ago). Does this mean Aborigines colonized China? Nope. There were hundreds of tribal groups bearing the same markers all over Asia at the time, many of the groups now extinct/absorbed by other populations. And so, the "ethnic" markers of the Chinese cannot distinguish a Chinese person from many Australian aborigines or some other Melanesians.

OTOH, LE may wait for the results to get back and reassess. If they learn (as I'm sure they are aware) that the stranger DNA results are entirely inconclusive and would require vast genetic genealogy (with weak DNA reconstructions), they may strategize and file an arrest affidavit without even using the DNA - or, if there's weak evidence about one person, they'd add that in last and not emphasize it.

I think they have a good idea about who this *might* be, and this person has to be handled very carefully. I would wager more than my lunch money that said person is living on the down-low right now (my lunch money is about $1). If I had to guess, I'd say he's still on campus. I have theories about his lifestyle, but they are based only on the examples of now-incarcerated students who have acted out on various campuses, mostly in my own neck of the woods. I believe LE is keeping an eye on this person or persons.

 

[Dotta]

you are not looking for a character that heats up easily and lashes out IMO. There could be some one who has a long simmering grudge, IMO but if evading LE was not due to luck, this is an analytical, controling person, IMO.

I really don't think that a hot headed student could slaughter 4 people in cold blood.

It is something more sinister than an argument or even a grudge.

But...
I might be wrong, of course.
It is only my opinion.

 

[Montecore1]

I was not sure if that (see above). They were all home BY 1:45. But in later updates and articles they don’t know WHEN they actually returned home. Apologies if I am misinterpreting. I thin LE has been less than clear on this b/c they don’t know. Moo.

Its unbelievable that in 7 weeks that they can not find where E&X were from 9-1:45...

 

[acutename]

I really don't think that a hot headed student could slaughter 4 people in cold blood.

It is something more sinister than an argument or even a grudge.

But...
I might be wrong, of course.
It is only my opinion.

I know... it is not any kind of normal reaction, but it is like an act of war IMO

 

[SMK777]

When her parents explained the context of the calls to Jack, they were the "we have a dog together" calls, and they occurred while Kaylee was at home with her parents, IIRC. We have no idea the purpose of the calls to him shortly before the murders, nor if there were any accompanying messages. JMO

I didn’t know that. I assumed the text that read, “Please come over. We share a dog together.” was sent from 1122 King Rd shortly before the murders.

 

[10ofRods]

I don't know that I agree with this part. The definition of serial is just targeting people with no motive in some sort of pattern - maybe they are all stabbed to death with an edged weapon, for example. If (god forbid) he struck again this would be a SK case. Look at Son of Sam, he was the prolific brunette killer, all of the brunettes in NYC were wearing wigs... until he targeted a blonde and her boyfriend. BTK killed multiple families at the same time along with random victims. Some SKs do seek out a specific type but I don't think killing outside of one "type" totally excludes a serial killer. Maybe his type was sorority girls and he didn't expect E to be in the house.

The definition of serial (as in serial killer) has nothing to do with "no motive." There are often motives. Patterns do not, IMO, arise out of thin air. You yourself say SofS killed (mostly) brunettes. So the motive included "to kill a brunette."

We have no clue if any victims of any serial killer were ever completely "random." The thing they may be looking for might be obscure - or not intrinsic to the victim - but they are rarely acting with completely abandon.

You seem to be indicating you think this is a possible serial killer at the end (saying the unsub had a "type").

All it takes to be a serial killer is to kill serially, in discrete time periods. I don't know of any serial mass murderers, though. This crime is, by FBI definition, a mass murder.

There are virtually no knifing mass murderers that are unsolved. Most knifing mass murders were accompanied by death-by-cop or suicide of perp, and after their effects were discovered, there were ideological manifestos (Elliot Rodger is an example - although of course no knife). Knife-mass murderer is very rare, but the ones I know about do leave behind manifestos/statements. Wikipedia lists only this current case as an unsolved knife mass murder.

Should give us all pause.

 

[SteveP]

I didn’t know that. I assumed the text that read, “Please come over. We share a dog together.” was sent from 1122 King Rd shortly before the murders.

It may have been, but I believe otherwise, as the sister, who claimed to have access to the account, never mentioned texts when she spoke of the several calls made by Kaylee and Maddie, shortly before the murders. I interpreted her father's statement about one the last texts as perhaps happened a day or two earlier. Again, none of us knows, and I could well be wrong, so please do not take my thoughts on them as fact.

 

[Counttrarian]

All IMHO -
I’m personally sad to be reading so many conspiracy theories about someone targeting X and E.
They didn’t tick anybody off, no hit men (eyes rolling around and around), no drug cartels, nada.

It simply didn’t happen.

They are just regular, nice, good and normal college kids.

Here‘s the real scoop:they were young and in love.
Simple as that. Nothing to report here.
Likely they spent quality time and possibly quantity time in the privacy of E’s room at the Sigma Chi house and/or they may have gone back and forth from X’s private locked bedroom at King Road to the frat party 5 minutes away.
They were off the grid doing what young and in love college people do in some form or fashion and nobody else paid any attention to their coming and going from the frat party.
They may have gone to take a nap and cuddle, right?
Timeline filled in.
Been there, done that.

Nothing nefarious happened that night until hours later.
It was a regular normal Saturday night for a regular normal college couple until it wasn’t.

Do not mean to victim blame, do want to reiterate the following though regarding X and E.
-Their timeline still has not been fully established (vs video/phone and witness evidence for K & M), for all we know the Elantra could be related to them.
And not sure what to make of this quote (emphasis added)
-"[W]hen I went up there she, I saw her just a week before that and she changed a lot," Kernodle told the outlet. "She had a life. She got to see what it was like to have a boyfriend you live with. And she really turned around. She was really responsible. Helping him out with his studies and stuff. I was really impressed,"

University of Idaho victim's father says Xana Kernodle had 'bruises,' put up a fight against killer

University of Idaho murder victim Xana Kernodle's father said the 20-year-old had 'bruises' and was 'torn by the knife' while putting up an apparent fight with her attacker.

www.foxnews.com

The point is we don't know much about what took place and we don't know who was targeted. LE likely has a much better idea based on forensic evidence, but so far tight-lipped.

all imho

 

[layer]

What does this tell you? It tells to me that the killer has a specific grudge with these people to the point that it overrides his safety faculties that we as humans have them genetically instilled in our brains and behavior. Because of this it's very unlikely to me that a serial killer would take that kind of risk instead of attacking a house which a single victim.

Interesting post! A few points...
BTK wiped out the Otero household in broad daylight. While I agree that a grudge can override safety faculties, so can an irresistable urge, a lust to kill.
And we have no way of knowing that the killer was just armed with a knife.

 

[Stephen2022]

You would have to think that if killer that roommates would have seen something suspicious, ie bloody clothes, wounds etc, bloody shoes. That is probably reason LE made stmt that they believe someone knows something that can help. IMO as I mentioned previously seems to make sense killer was not a student and lived alone or far enough away that close acquaintances would not be suspicious of him , loner in outskirts of town or if lives in close proximity. someone older that no one close would think of him being at a college event. Worst scenario for LE and family looking for arrest would be someone visiting from out of town that came across these victims by chance and then returned back home in another state.

 

[10ofRods]

I know... it is not any kind of normal reaction, but it is like an act of war IMO

SPECULATION
Which is why I said (and I was sorry I said it last time, so I will not elaborate) there is some kind of secret.

There's way more than just entering a house because cute sorority girls live there. There's more than a regular grudge. It is exactly like an act of war, and I believe IMO that the killer(s) believed their lifestyle and possibly their freedom might hinge on suppressing knowledge of...something. I have no clue what it could be. I could also substitute "sense of self" or "public persona" for "lifestyle."

If the killers believed that someone at 1122 knew something about them (or, as the police are suggesting - someone somewhere took a picture of a possibly illegal activity that also shows the killers), they could attack. But whoever did this had thought about killing for quite a while, and fantasized about it. As someone wrote upthread, those fantasies may have taken on the character of obsessions.

 

[gliving]

Starting at about 2:50 in this video, former FBI Agent Brad Garrett (yes, another former agent ) talks about the connection between the victims and the suspect/s. He says it's likely there wasn't a strong connection or maybe even no connection. This can slow down the info coming in. Makes sense to me. If this is more randon than we imagine, making something fit will be difficult.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I think the point people are trying to make about hunters, butchers, chefs, etc. is that unlike a big group of people who hate blood and meat prep- remenber there are people who faint if they see a blood donation- the killer in this case was not perturbed by blood and was not avoiding it by using a different weapon or method, IMO. There are people who could not even attempt this. IMO

Not necessarily directed right at you.

But "meat prep" is no where close to murder. In my mind, comparing the 2 almost reeks of cannibalism.

I remember a case about 6 years ago where much ado was made about a nearby slaughterhouse. When the perp was recently arrested, not even close.

Maybe our non criminal brains struggle to see how someone can possibly slaughter other people so we turn to hunters, outdoorsman, slaughterhouses, butchers, etc. Which actually tells me education is lacking in certain areas.

All JMO

 

[Spb1213]

All IMHO -
I’m personally sad to be reading so many conspiracy theories about someone targeting X and E.
They didn’t tick anybody off, no hit men (eyes rolling around and around), no drug cartels, nada.

It simply didn’t happen.

They are just regular, nice, good and normal college kids.

Here‘s the real scoop:they were young and in love.
Simple as that. Nothing to report here.
Likely they spent quality time and possibly quantity time in the privacy of E’s room at the Sigma Chi house and/or they may have gone back and forth from X’s private locked bedroom at King Road to the frat party 5 minutes away.
They were off the grid doing what young and in love college people do in some form or fashion and nobody else paid any attention to their coming and going from the frat party.
They may have gone to take a nap and cuddle, right?
Timeline filled in.
Been there, done that.

Nothing nefarious happened that night until hours later.
It was a regular normal Saturday night for a regular normal college couple until it wasn’t.

This is definitely a strong possibility. It’s also a strong possibility that something involving them did happen, hence LE’s requests for information re the context of their evening.

 

[NuttMegg]

That's not K's sister, it's her mother. I have listened to that exchange several times, even transcribed it, and it's not clear to me whether he was talking about those last minute phone calls or something earlier. It's also not clear whether it was voice mail messages or texts.

SG: One of her messages, one of her last messages, she reached out to Jack and said Jack, get back to me. And he didn't, and she goes, we share a dog together, which they did. She's like you need to reach out to me.

Meanwhile, K's sister A (who procured the actual phone records) said nothing about any texts or voice mails in another interview.

Interviewer: ... making calls as late as almost two o'clock.
A: Yep
Interviewer: How do you know that?
A: So, she was on my mom's cell plan so on Sunday I was able to pull those cell records
Interviewer: And you could see that she was calling somebody out...
A: Yep
Interviewer: Does it seem like they may have been involved or does it seem like they...
A: Nope, no not at all. Kaylee had no shame in kind of powercalling, so it fits Kaylee
K's mom: Yeah, and we know who she was calling and this person is, this person was asleep, unfortunately, was not getting the calls. And it was a few calls between, for half an hour she called him a couple times and, but, no, we do not believe she was calling him for help. We believe that she was just calling him to come over. If Kaylee was in imminent danger, her or Maddie, they would have called 911. They would not have been calling this person.
Interviewer: And that was at around two
A: It started at around two thirty
K's mom: We believe the girls were just fine
Interviewer: So from those phone records it looks like the girls may have been alive around two thirtyish
K's mom: Two thirty is what, the last call?
A: No, the last call was shortly before three am.
K's mom: Yeah, that's right, two fifty something
A: Two fifty two

I think the dad was speaking literally..one of the LAST messages she sent. The G's were mixing up the times, each was speaking of a different set of calls.

 

[PrairieWind]

10ofRods, since the killer used a knife, stabbing 4 victims multiple times, it certainly is possible the killer cut himself along the say, even if just a small cut. If his blood mingled with the victims, perhaps on the bed sheets or even on their bodies, how is that different blood/dna identified, separated and the different DNA identified? How long would that process take?

 

[layer]

I think the dad was speaking literally..one of the LAST messages she sent. The G's were mixing up the times, each was speaking of a different set of calls.

Help me out here.
A was clearly referring to the series of calls between 2:30 and 2:58 am the morning of the murders. Which calls were SG referring to?

 

[gliving]

https://www.ci.moscow.id.us › CivicAlerts​

20 hours ago — Investigators believe the occupant(s) may have critical information to share regarding this case and have identified over 22,000 vehicles.

They want this Elantra!

 

[Snoop Sister]

Would you be able to provide with a link that states Ethan’s mom said girls on the first floor heard loud male voices? I have been following this case since the beginning and I don’t recall reading this. I know you mentioned an article but I would appreciate the link please

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

https://www.ci.moscow.id.us › CivicAlerts​

20 hours ago — Investigators believe the occupant(s) may have critical information to share regarding this case and have identified over 22,000 vehicles.

They want this Elantra!

Here is what I understand ;
You may have just driven this vehicle with others in it, waited for sb in it as a driver ,you may not be involved in the crime, show up and talk…