ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 38

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idk, I was following the chain of messages here, replying to this one, did you read it? :


Edit, wrong link corrected

I was in a convo about the "leak" of the Saturday night bar video across several threads - not sure what I'm meant to read on that thread, I was just curious because "leak" implies some kind of illegal action or whatever (WikiLeaks) and I'm not sure that's what this is. I think it's Citizen Journalism.

I can understand how others would see it differently.
 
I think it's interesting because multiple reporters have said, over last few weeks, that many businesses - including specifically the Corner Club - refused to speak to the media. ( Speaking only with LE)
Last reporter I heard saying this was Entin. ( I can't recall names of all the rest now.)

If those accounts are true I can't see why an owner/ owner manager would want to put the image out there. An employee maybe although IDK what the motive would be because it's not as if the motive was financial - wasn't sold to one of the big tabloids or networks. Plus, ofc, LE would already have had all the cam footage so this still image is not of probative value.

Maybe somebody's looking to stir things up.
We don’t know who put the image out there. I can picture a scenario where some employees remembered seeing the girls there and went through the footage, maybe snapped a still on their cell phone. And they told two friends, who told two friends… I’ve actually seen parents passing around images that kids should not have shared in the first place. Technology..
 
snipped to keep focussed


I think we all know this - nobody thinks we're at stage of sealed evidence or compulsion & we're probably just reading too much into Coffindaffer's original use of the word.
I don't think Coffindaffer views it as literally a leak ( eg from within the investigative team)
She just disapproves of putting some case info into the public realm. ( She's using ' leak' as shorthand)

Yes businesses are suffering but think that's a separate issue. Seems a stretch to assume Corner Club owner passed a still of his own cams to Reddit in order to get more cash behind the bar


anyway, the entire point of my last post was simply to emphasise that acc to reporters on the ground Club owner had been tight lipped - wanting to protect the investigation.

Oh, okay - that makes sense. Thank you. I wasn't speaking about the still, but about the video. And I was replying to a post that just said flatly it was a leak, so I wanted to know why we were using that language here.
 
As I try to think about what sort of person could commit such a horrific crime, and reading the helpful insights from those of you with knowledge about the psychology of different sorts of mindsets, etc., I find myself more and more considering the idea of a religious extremist who is upset by what he sees as the overtly sexual, overly worldly, secular lifestyle of today's young people.

(Made all the more apparent by social media, of course, where we can now all see glimpses into a college lifestyle which might have only been visible to campus locals in the pre-instagram era.)

I know there has been mention earlier in the threads about a particularly large/strong religious extremist group located in Moscow ID, but I know little about them and I'm not skilled at searching multiple threads to find any mentions.

Does anyone have information or opinions about this local group (or groups if there are more than one) and the potential for a disgruntled/frustrated/radicalized person capable of this degree of anger to have arisen from such a group?
 
The murders happened right before Thanksgiving break. I would imagine a vast majority of students "went home" which might have made it inconvenient for LE to adequately conduct thorough interviews, IMO. (Thus the complaints from many that people were cleared too quickly). IIRC, many (subjective) did not return. Now we are on the Holiday/New Year break. Hopefully after this break we will see more movement in this case. The key to obtaining more evidence might happen when students get back to campus. The key may also be found if certain students DON'T choose to return.
 
Was the pic coming out intentional to ratchet up the heat on people they suspect or was the leak not from someone LE didn’t want out? If this is not the work of a SK, and it is a fledgling killer, doesn’t the killer really have to be a loner type or a very unusual individual? If it was someone who acted in a rage without premeditation, and if they’ve not killed before, how can someone go back to their family for Thanksgiving and Christmas, act normal, sleep, eat- how?

I can think of awful people who have parents who enable them- we’ve seen it play out in other news many times, where they have that sociopathic personality. if this is a stalker neighbor or someone they knew, how are they assimilating back with folks during the holidays?
 
I worry deeply that the longer this goes the more confident this individual/s will become.

Basking in the knowledge of how much smarter and better he/they are when compared to the local PD, the State P, and 60 +/- FBI agents.


Just my opinion
 
The murders happened right before Thanksgiving break. I would imagine a vast majority of students "went home" which might have made it inconvenient for LE to adequately conduct thorough interviews, IMO. (Thus the complaints from many that people were cleared too quickly). IIRC, many (subjective) did not return. Now we are on the Holiday/New Year break. Hopefully after this break we will see more movement in this case. The key to obtaining more evidence might happen when students get back to campus. The key may also be found if certain students DON'T choose to return.
The timing was very convenient. The university ultimately agreed that students who didn't feel comfortable returning to campus could do remote learning. I'm not entirely sure if they put a time limit on it, like students had to be back on campus and in class by the beginning of the next semester, which is right around the corner like you pointed out. My guess is that the university really cannot compel students to return to a campus that has, for all anyone knows, an active killer among them.
 
Moo, in all likelihood, LE may have an idea as to who the owner of the Hyundai Elantra owing to their recent interviews and press releases which was more informative but remained vague at best. It’s interesting that LE is still looking for the occupants of the vehicle yet both Chief Fry and Officer Snell’s very recent interviews fails to mention the car, at the very least, the whole interview were about their search for context, perhaps to reconstruct an order of “event”. These recent interviews grants them an opportunity to share their inquisition into the “context”, not the car, or the perp.

Moo, If LE have absolutely nothing, they would have release a video (imo, they have seen a video evidence of the car being in the immediate area) but they have yet to release digital evidence or at least an image of the actual car. The Hyundai Elantra pictures they were willing to distribute was a standard stock portrait of the car model, make and year, which would have the descriptions and features of the car in question. There are several unverified footages which were circulated soon after their announcement but the real footage of the car in question hasn’t been release by Le. Moo, they’re telling us that it’s more important to keep whatever images or video evidence they have out of public. One would think that sharing an actual video of the Elantra would encourage possible witnesses to send in a valuable tip, it’s apparent that’s not their priority. Moo, my apologies for being redundant, but I thought it’s important to reiterate that LE is on a mission of collecting digital evidence. Their methods thus far is developing a theory to get the full context of how the murder occurred, they believe that the missing “context” will lead them to a circumstantial links pointing to their POI.

Moo, there are various cases when LE lacks sufficient information to uncover a poi, thus releasing critical information such as DNA phenotyping and behavioral analysis maybe beneficial to their investigation. They did none of the above, they probably have an idea as to who they should be focusing on. In addition, I believe they have a DNA as they stated previously in several interviews and press releases summarizing number of physical evidence collected. Thus far, their inquiries have been about tracing the steps before, during and after the murder (time, locations, video evidence of any kind between those time indicated by LE), their query largely focuses on digital evidence. Perhaps they’re eliminating possibilities and validating events hence they were able to clear some people close to the victims.

Maybe I’m more optimistic.

Moo.
Agreed. IMO the police are just interested in the occupants, not the car. I don't think they have ever specifically said they want the car, just tips about who was in it. It could be they even know the location of the car itself, maybe even know the owner, but it was used by someone else that night and nobody is saying who. I really don't know though, just speculating .
 
Moo, in all likelihood, LE may have an idea as to who the owner of the Hyundai Elantra owing to their recent interviews and press releases which was more informative but remained vague at best. It’s interesting that LE is still looking for the occupants of the vehicle yet both Chief Fry and Officer Snell’s very recent interviews fails to mention the car, at the very least, the whole interview were about their search for context, perhaps to reconstruct an order of “event”. These recent interviews grants them an opportunity to share their inquisition into the “context”, not the car, or the perp.

Moo, If LE have absolutely nothing, they would have release a video (imo, they have seen a video evidence of the car being in the immediate area) but they have yet to release digital evidence or at least an image of the actual car. The Hyundai Elantra pictures they were willing to distribute was a standard stock portrait of the car model, make and year, which would have the descriptions and features of the car in question. There are several unverified footages which were circulated soon after their announcement but the real footage of the car in question hasn’t been release by Le. Moo, they’re telling us that it’s more important to keep whatever images or video evidence they have out of public. One would think that sharing an actual video of the Elantra would encourage possible witnesses to send in a valuable tip, it’s apparent that’s not their priority. Moo, my apologies for being redundant, but I thought it’s important to reiterate that LE is on a mission of collecting digital evidence. Their methods thus far is developing a theory to get the full context of how the murder occurred, they believe that the missing “context” will lead them to a circumstantial links pointing to their POI.

Moo, there are various cases when LE lacks sufficient information to uncover a poi, thus releasing critical information such as DNA phenotyping and behavioral analysis maybe beneficial to their investigation. They did none of the above, they probably have an idea as to who they should be focusing on. In addition, I believe they have a DNA as they stated previously in several interviews and press releases summarizing number of physical evidence collected. Thus far, their inquiries have been about tracing the steps before, during and after the murder (time, locations, video evidence of any kind between those time indicated by LE), their query largely focuses on digital evidence. Perhaps they’re eliminating possibilities and validating events hence they were able to clear some people close to the victims.

Maybe I’m more optimistic.

Moo.

My tentative theory is that LE has blurry video that FBI experts are absolutely certain is of a Hyundai Elantra, 2011-13.

However, I think that they know that if they actually release that blurry footage, they will be inundated with tips involving every imaginable brand and model of white car. I think we’ve seen this phenomenon on a small scale with all the photos and videos that people have already spotted.
 
I worry deeply that the longer this goes the more confident this individual/s will become.

Basking in the knowledge of how much smarter and better he/they are when compared to the local PD, the State P, and 60 +/- FBI agents.


Just my opinion

Spot on. Also, LE can make mistake after mistake and still end up arresting someone. A perp just has to make one mistake and it's curtains.
 
I was in a convo about the "leak" of the Saturday night bar video across several threads - not sure what I'm meant to read on that thread, I was just curious because "leak" implies some kind of illegal action or whatever (WikiLeaks) and I'm not sure that's what this is. I think it's Citizen Journalism.

I can understand how others would see it differently.
It appears you have, I was replying to post that had the word leaked in it.
 
I totally agree. My daughter’s bf is a weightlifter, and competes regularly, he’s a strong well built guy, but he has said, he feels the most vulnerable when he’s asleep, that’s why they’ve got tight security at their home.

And to add, back in my young years, I would be in an extremely deep sleep those first couple of hours after falling asleep, there could be the biggest commotion and I’d sleep through it, if I had a couple to drink, even more so.

The killer chose the best time but still took a huge chance and unfortunately, was lucky, one or more victims didn’t wake to use the bathroom, or go to the kitchen, to snack, as far as we know.
I have wondered what his plan was if that happened, would he risk continuing the attack while one of the victims called 911? Who is he?!
JMO
Stabbing people asleep several times while they are laying down horizontal would be distant and like shooting fish in a barrel.

Someone stated, an ex soldier said, stabbing someone in the chest causes them to breath in, and they cannot scream.

From what I can gather, this would be like stabbing a sack of wheat on the ground with not a lot of splatter. Mind you, the perpetrator must have known this prior somehow. It would appear some premeditated planning, all done when they were asleep in my opinion. The victims at their most vulnerable point.
AIMOO
 
My tentative theory is that LE has blurry video that FBI experts are absolutely certain is of a Hyundai Elantra, 2011-13.

However, I think that they know that if they actually release that blurry footage, they will be inundated with tips involving every imaginable brand and model of white car. I think we’ve seen this phenomenon on a small scale with all the photos and videos that people have already spotted.
Exactly. Unless there is something very distinctive about the car that shows up in surveillance video they might have, it's much more helpful to the average person to have a clear stock photo of an exemplar to go by. MOO
 
The timing was very convenient. The university ultimately agreed that students who didn't feel comfortable returning to campus could do remote learning. I'm not entirely sure if they put a time limit on it, like students had to be back on campus and in class by the beginning of the next semester, which is right around the corner like you pointed out. My guess is that the university really cannot compel students to return to a campus that has, for all anyone knows, an active killer among them.
Exactly. Which is why my fingers are crossed that headway can be made, even from a distance. I hope it's not a case of "out of sight, out of mind" for someone who may know something. I would hope information could still be obtained from someone who has a conscience/wants to do what is right. Maybe the distance could even lend itself to lessening fears about coming forward?
 
I think some people are frustrated and want this crime solved. Those that feel they can "help" do so by speaking with the media (sometimes anonymously - like the private party driver that took K & M home) or sharing a still photo of security footage.

I feel the longer this crime goes unsolved, the more of these tidbits of information will come out. For the integrity of the case, I wish these details would stay confidential, but I will say that the sleuth in me does enjoy new hints to make or break my current theories.
I genuinely do not know how to quantify the varied motives of people who have spoken with media so far, just cause they are varied. I certainly don't think they all have bad motives

I think MPD have got better at explaining to the public why they should just send intelligence to them without sharing intelligence in public.

but getting away from the ethics & back on this particular release - if you had to speculate, what would the leaker gain or, secondly, how might this particular image help speed up an arrest?
 
Stabbing people asleep several times while they are laying down horizontal would be distant and like shooting fish in a barrel.

Someone stated, an ex soldier said, stabbing someone in the chest causes them to breath in, and they cannot scream.

From what I can gather, this would be like stabbing a sack of wheat on the ground with not a lot of splatter. Mind you, the perpetrator must have known this prior somehow. It would appear some premeditated planning, all done when they were asleep in my opinion.
AIMOO
Ghastly...
Yes, in my mind there is no way around premeditation when you break and enter, bring a giant knife, then creep around and butcher sleeping people. Again, ghastly.
 
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Can you still listen to police scanner in Moscow Idaho, or have Moscow PD gone digital encryption?



Maybe Kaylees stalker report had them all rethink security? Stalkers can do things that only the victim knows they are there. Stalkers can be well versed at being manipulative.
Digital keylocks were being hacked, and are no good if the pincode is handed out.
Maybe the stalker had damaged the lock?

No doubt, landlords in Idaho will be upgrading security for fear of litigation. IMOO

This is a motiveless crime in my opinion. In my opinion,the house was targeted because it was high profile with strong public social media publication in my opinion.

I feel this person has killed elsewhere with a university theme imo. This is pure fantasy imoo.
A specific K’s accused male stalker were cleared by LE.

Not discounting the possibility of another stalker. K was a beautiful girl, but having multiple stalker at the same time seem unlikely, but not impossible.

 
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