ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 38

[JohnBull]

Ghastly...
Yes, in my mind there is no way around premeditation when you break and enter, bring a giant knife, then creep around and butcher sleeping people. Again, ghastly.

Oh heavens, yes. But nothing surprises me in this insane world of ours.

 

[Mad Hettie]

Do not mean to victim blame, do want to reiterate the following though regarding X and E.
-Their timeline still has not been fully established (vs video/phone and witness evidence for K & M), for all we know the Elantra could be related to them.
And not sure what to make of this quote (emphasis added)
-"[W]hen I went up there she, I saw her just a week before that and she changed a lot," Kernodle told the outlet. "She had a life. She got to see what it was like to have a boyfriend you live with. And she really turned around. She was really responsible. Helping him out with his studies and stuff. I was really impressed,"

University of Idaho victim's father says Xana Kernodle had 'bruises,' put up a fight against killer

University of Idaho murder victim Xana Kernodle's father said the 20-year-old had 'bruises' and was 'torn by the knife' while putting up an apparent fight with her attacker.

www.foxnews.com

The point is we don't know much about what took place and we don't know who was targeted. LE likely has a much better idea based on forensic evidence, but so far tight-lipped.

all imho

X (and M) were part of a sorority that was known for being full of party girls, according to Greek Rank. Maybe her grades dropped and she pulled them up, simple as that.

Or something else. No evidence either way at this time, though.

 

[Palinsmom]

https://thekeep.eiu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=4722&context=theses

Began reading this. Very eye opening

In my opinion

 

[Walela]

How do we account for the forms with no "primary contact" information filled out? How did those get through? I would imagine it would be more likely to forget a plate number when filling out an online form than forgetting who was actually responsible for the car. ETA: I'm assuming it was an online form. Maybe not.

Maybe the ones with a primary contact are owned and registered to parents and the student is the primary contact. The ones without a contact listed might be owned/registered to the student and there was no point in repeating the name. IDK, just a guess.

 

[Which_pancake]

I had high hopes an arrest was near. Unless the Police are being updating us deliberately with misinformation to imply they are no closer to solving this (to mislead the killer, which I hope is the case). It looks like they are back to square one.

Idaho murders: Police issue new appeal for information in stabbing deaths of 4 college students

The way this title is worded makes it sound like the police are desperately reaching out to the public anew. But in reality they issue updates every few days that say the same thing - send us your tips. I am not discouraged - they have a lot of evidence to go through still. MOO

 

[javi]

My tentative theory is that LE has blurry video that FBI experts are absolutely certain is of a Hyundai Elantra, 2011-13.

It wouldn't be blurry video if it came from this camera, which I believe it did. This house would capture the coming and going and it would be 50 times better resolution than the Taylor Street video or the gas station. This light bulb camera has the capability to use up to a 128 GB card which allows for 24-7 recording, or video can be sent to cloud storage for a fee of less than $10 a month.

Moscow Homicide

Since this house had the camera facing the street and was right in front of the murder house, the police were there the first thing that morning and had already gotten possession of it before any of the media had even gotten there. This would be the reason very few people ever knew this house had a surveillance camera. I myself only learned about it a few days ago from this local newspaper that had gotten a photo of it.

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

This makes me wonder :
The time of death per LE is 03:00 - 04:00. Since K and M's last known awake hours were 02:52 while they texted , they couldn't have been killed at 03:00. So I wonder if LE starts the time at 03:00 as they have found out from the beginning that E and X, who arrived at the house at 01:45, had been killed first . And then the perp should have waited a while and went on to upstairs ? Or does LE state like that for another reason ?

 

[FlamingoLady]

Maybe the ones with a primary contact are owned and registered to parents and the student is the primary contact. The ones without a contact listed might be owned/registered to the student and there was no point in repeating the name. IDK, just a guess.

I thought the purpose of the form was to document which cars have permits to park on campus. Pretty basic stuff. Who is the primary contact? What is the plate number? Click here and pay your fee. Maybe I'm missing something but I thought these were the forms from the university. I really think too much is being read into this aspect. ETA: Out of all the Elantras registered on campus we're focusing on the 1 form that didn't have a plate but ignoring all the others that couldn't simply put a primary contact?

 

[10ofRods]

What were your criteria for a parallel case? What stands out to me about this case is that there was not only no sexual assault but nothing to indicate a sexual motivation (at least not based on any information released by LE).

In the Grangegorman murders, one victim's genitalia had been mutilated, so that is clear evidence of a sexual motivation. In a previous thread, I mentioned the stabbing death of sixteen-year-old Chantelle Rowe and her two parents. All three of them were stabbed to death in their home by an incel named Jason Downie who had become sexually obsessed with Chantelle. Chantelle was raped as she lay bleeding to death, so the sexual motivation was obvious there as well.

Jealous Scot Jason Downie jailed for killing Australian girl and parents

A jealous Scot who brutally murdered a teenager and her parents after she spurned his advances is jailed for at least 35 years.

www.bbc.com

I am still trying to find a case where multiple people were stabbed in their home by an intruder without there being any clear evidence of a sexual motivation or of robbery.

My hunch on this case is that one of the girls on the third floor was targeted by an incel who fantasized a relationship with her and then experienced a narcissistic injury upon being rejected.

It will not surprise me if I'm eventually proved wrong regarding the motive, but I am convinced that the murderer was not a current or former boyfriend of one of the victims. I think that this perp is someone who has never had a long-term relationship (and has probably never even gotten a second date with a girl). I doubt he's had any sexual experiences with women unless he managed to take advantage of women who were intoxicated.

I mentioned the sexual element as a difference. You can see the similarities and differences for yourself, I think. Which is why I said "parallel" rather than "similar."

I can't find many home invasion knife murders, period. Much less a mass murder (and the one I quoted might have had an intended 3 victims, but mercifully only 2 were killed).

Other than that, the other knifing murders of 3 or more mostly fall into terrorism, ideological killing and severely mentally ill perp categories.

Similarities:

This one is a private home. Intended victims are all female. Knife (from their own house IIRC) used against them (we're all assuming that's not the case in Idaho - but we don't really know). Man blended back into "normal" life (so far, no one has been arrested for the Idaho killings, so that person is out there somewhere, trying to blend in). Attacks while the victims are sleeping and while more than one person is home. No men home in this case though (but we don't know that the perp in Idaho anticipated E being there).

I don't discount your paragraph on profiling though, I sometimes think something similar (although my categories are more blurry at this point). But right now, I have a different kind of perp in mind. But my perp and your perp share the "brittle relationships" thing. A person can be in a long term mostly teen-age relationship and not be sexually active. Throwing in that he's a date rapist or similar (takes advantage of drunken women) makes your perp already a medium-weight antisocial person, breaking laws and so on. I think we almost have to postulate that this person was willing to break rules and laws on the regular, to get to this stage of transgression.


JMO. Speculation. And, as far as cases that are anywhere near this one in terms of MO, that's all I got. Would love to hear about a case that someone thinks is closer, given what we do know.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

https://thekeep.eiu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=4722&context=theses

Began reading this. Very eye opening

In my opinion

Crazy to think but I bet Bundy would love knowing he's still talked about and (gulp) studied these years later, while his victims roll over in their graves

Of course we need to study these types of people but I find it ironic (not the right word I'm sure) if not unsettling and interesting at the same time!

 

[Past Mortem]

I’m still a thread back but have jumped ahead to say 2 things that stood out from previous posters last thread…

From another poster and is MOO too - If an arrest is coming soon, LE wouldn’t be still searching for this mystery Hyundai. I know we don’t know even a small portion of what LE knows, but I don’t think they would be so desperately trying to STILL find this car if they were at the point of an arrest. I don’t think a car would ‘seal the deal’ as such, unless they have indisputable evidence to show the suspect IN the car outside the crime scene at the time of the crime. A defence attorney would run a truck through any other witness sighting or even just confirmation that the car belonged to the POI or their family/friend. Unless LE has a very clear CCTV Image of the perp in the car at that time I doubt it would be still being searched for as the smoking gun to the case. Too many variables.

Secondly, also a view from another poster (sorry I couldn’t work out how to quote from previous post?) - if one person was an intended target and it was someone known to them (a revenge attack let’s say in this scenario) than I would think it would be the killers first murder even potentially first serious crime… to the posters though, if that’s the case, how did the killer murder their intended victim and continue to kill 3 ADDITIONAL people. I am speculating here but I can’t see any scenario where the perp was interrupted by one of the victims as I imagine an almighty commotion would ensue and wake up the survivors and possibly be heard outside the house.

 

[z0mer]

It wouldn't be blurry video if it came from this camera, which I believe it did. This house would capture the coming and going and it would be 50 times better resolution than the Taylor Street video or the gas station. This light bulb camera has the capability to use up to a 128 GB card which allows for 24-7 recording, or video can be sent to cloud storage for a fee of less than $10 a month.

Moscow Homicide

Since this house had the camera facing the street and was right in front of the murder house, the police were there the first thing that morning and had already gotten possession of it before any of the media had even gotten there. This would be the reason very few people ever knew this house had a surveillance camera. I myself only learned about it a few days ago from this local newspaper that had gotten a photo of it.

Yeah, they must have security footage from a camera nearby and seem to be absolutely sure about the model they are seeking. That's probably also why they know a white 2011-2013 Hyundai Elantra was in the immediate area of the King Road residence during the early morning hours of November 13th as the press release states.

 

[Walela]

I thought the purpose of the form was to document which cars have permits to park on campus. Pretty basic stuff. Who is the primary contact? What is the plate number? Click here and pay your fee. Maybe I'm missing something but I thought these were the forms from the university. I really think too much is being read into this aspect. ETA: Out of all the Elantras registered on campus we're focusing on the 1 form that didn't have a plate but ignoring all the others that couldn't simply put a primary contact?

Maybe so ETA: too much is being read into this aspect.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Just some info to share, not to brag about my son but to provide some some possible answers about the awake/not awake or defensive etc.

My son was a Hvwt wrestler. He was a state champion in multiple styles: Roman-Greco, Freestyle and Folkstyle as well as in many national style tournaments and on state traveling teams. As I have been thinking about this I can honestly say that even with all that training, experience and his size I do not think he would stand a chance were he to be attacked in such a manner while laying in bed asleep or semi-asleep. His core would be Horizonte and his feet would not be in contact with anything substantial to allow him to gain momentum to even defend himself. ESPECIALLY if he had been stabbed and was in a semi shocked startled awakening.

JMO

In line with your excellent explanation, I've wondered if defensive wounds could be acquired by:

Reaching at the attacker
Trying to grab at the knife

Either while being startled awake due to being stabbed.

JMO

 

[Seraphim]

Maybe so ETA: too much is being read into this aspect.

Wouldn’t LE look at each one (turn over every stone)?

 

[Walela]

Wouldn’t LE look at each one (turn over every stone)?

I would hope so. I certainly would.

 

[PrairieWind]

I’m still a thread back but have jumped ahead to say 2 things that stood out from previous posters last thread…

From another poster and is MOO too - If an arrest is coming soon, LE wouldn’t be still searching for this mystery Hyundai. I know we don’t know even a small portion of what LE knows, but I don’t think they would be so desperately trying to STILL find this car if they were at the point of an arrest. I don’t think a car would ‘seal the deal’ as such, unless they have indisputable evidence to show the suspect IN the car outside the crime scene at the time of the crime. A defence attorney would run a truck through any other witness sighting or even just confirmation that the car belonged to the POI or their family/friend. Unless LE has a very clear CCTV Image of the perp in the car at that time I doubt it would be still being searched for as the smoking gun to the case. Too many variables.

Secondly, also a view from another poster (sorry I couldn’t work out how to quote from previous post?) - if one person was an intended target and it was someone known to them (a revenge attack let’s say in this scenario) than I would think it would be the killers first murder even potentially first serious crime… to the posters though, if that’s the case, how did the killer murder their intended victim and continue to kill 3 ADDITIONAL people. I am speculating here but I can’t see any scenario where the perp was interrupted by one of the victims as I imagine an almighty commotion would ensue and wake up the survivors and possibly be heard outside the house.

I think it is possible they have identified their car. Now they may be looking to identify all the other white Elantras in the area. They do that so they can contact those owners to eliminate them as possibilities. Remember the police saying they want a conviction, not just an arrest. They could be getting their ducks in a row to head off a defense claim that "it was someone else's Elantra."

 

[DizzyB]

I don't think it would be particularly bloody at the outset. I think the blood would be contained in the thoracic cavity until the sheer volume of it caused it to spill out of the wound. It's the slashing-type injury that produces a gaping incision which causes blood to come spurting or gushing from a severed vein or artery. In the present instance I don't think we have that kind of injury.

But 4 times? All 4, in at least semi dark rooms, with possibly one of each pair semi-awakened by what had happened to their sleeping partner?

 

[10ofRods]

I’m still a thread back but have jumped ahead to say 2 things that stood out from previous posters last thread…

From another poster and is MOO too - If an arrest is coming soon, LE wouldn’t be still searching for this mystery Hyundai. I know we don’t know even a small portion of what LE knows, but I don’t think they would be so desperately trying to STILL find this car if they were at the point of an arrest. I don’t think a car would ‘seal the deal’ as such, unless they have indisputable evidence to show the suspect IN the car outside the crime scene at the time of the crime. A defence attorney would run a truck through any other witness sighting or even just confirmation that the car belonged to the POI or their family/friend. Unless LE has a very clear CCTV Image of the perp in the car at that time I doubt it would be still being searched for as the smoking gun to the case. Too many variables.

Secondly, also a view from another poster (sorry I couldn’t work out how to quote from previous post?) - if one person was an intended target and it was someone known to them (a revenge attack let’s say in this scenario) than I would think it would be the killers first murder even potentially first serious crime… to the posters though, if that’s the case, how did the killer murder their intended victim and continue to kill 3 ADDITIONAL people. I am speculating here but I can’t see any scenario where the perp was interrupted by one of the victims as I imagine an almighty commotion would ensue and wake up the survivors and possibly be heard outside the house.

Personally, I think they have likely located the Elantra of interest, which is why context is still being mentioned. Maybe they haven't collected the car yet and they almost certainly haven't had a long enough talk with the owners/drivers of it.

They still want more info about the Elantra, and they want context too. But I believe the white Elantra likely has been found.

IMO. (And I think there was more than one intended target, so can't answer that question - it's a good one).

 

[FlamingoLady]

I would hope so. I certainly would

Of course they have looked at all of the records. The records are incomplete because they were not filled out properly by the applicants for parking permits! 1 missing plate number...and many missing primary contact info. My humble opinion is the university doesn't give 2 hoots about accurate info-as long as the parking permit fee is paid, it's all good, IMO OF COURSE. LE is dealing with the records they have.