ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 38

[Mad Hettie]

Aren't legal repaints recorded against the VIN?

In my little legal world, getting plate numbers (hence the VIN) would show the repaint.

I also realize they might not be that far in the Elantra search yet.

JMO

There are many ways to repaint a car, legal and nonlegal. I've repainted my own car, not that it was great, but it would have passed.

 

[hopewell]

I don't think the frat had anything to do with this, but it makes sense to me if they are not being forthcoming. Not from a brotherly 'oath' and 'loyalty' perspective, but because the national chapter and its affiliated PR firms and lawyers are almost certainly involved and guiding any narrative/response. That creates purposeful resistance. Likewise - justified or not - not a lot of young folks trust law enforcement these days.

They likely also fear any potential student/university disciplinary ramifications, which to students who have worked hard for 3-4 years would give them pause to freely cooperate. Doesn't matter how many times the school (or law enforcement) tells them it's okay to come forward, young folks don't tend to trust that.

My opinion.

 

[acutename]

Beside the lil get together where the group pic was taken and posted on K's social media I have never seen a timeline of each of the 6 individuals for Saturday...do you have a link I would like to see it

My mistake...I guess thats just a fall wreath, I was thinking it was TG/Christmas, thank you for clarifying the date BS

the wreath might have been there since Christmas 2021 for all we know

 

[al66pine]

UNI.'s ELANTRA PARKING REG. INFO???

They all look redacted to me. What am I missing? Of more concern to me are the 2 names NOT redacted. JMO

@CSIDreamer Moi aussi. Weird isn't it?
On left column, headed PLATE #, all info in column has been redacted.
Can someone give another link pls?

What are we actually looking at?
No title, no date for info cut off, no date of publication.
Not the entire data set for Uni.'s paid parking stickers, imo.
Not the entire data set for Uni.'s student parking violations (w possible fines).
Not a printout of routine (weekly, monthly, annual) report, emailed to a staffer imo.
Just Elantras, amirite? But not just the yrs, LE wanted to track.
What's the color delineation, top ~10 rows in pink, vs rest in green?

If this angle has already been covered, sorry. I'm grabbing at straws here -->

Did someone at Uni. hack into either 1. Uni.'s paid parking stickers data or 2. Uni's parking violation records data, and then jerry-rig this half-azz spreadsheet to give to someone outside the Uni. e.g., LE, MSM, a T/C podcaster or vlogger? Or?

I saw other hinkydinks w it, but lost the foxnews(?) link. Anyone? TiA

 

[BuySellTrade]

I sincerely hope you are correct here, but the most recent press release doesn't ask for context about the car nor does it change any language about or lessen the sense of urgency towards locating the car and/or its occupant(s).

https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24989/12-27-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update

I too have an issue with them not releasing actual footage of the car. I hesitate, however, to make any assumptions as to why. There are all kinds of reasons they wouldn't release actual footage even if they don't know who the car belongs to. The most important indication to me that they don't know whose car it is is that they disclosed the car to the public and are asking for assistance in locating it and/or the occupant(s). They simply wouldn't do that if they knew or suspected they knew who was driving it. Why clog up their tip lines with tens of thousands of unnecessary calls if they suspect they know whose car it is? Why state publicly that they have to sort through 22,000 registered Elantras to try to find the one? That makes no sense to me.



Chief Fry appeared to suggest in yesterday's official video interview release that DNA hasn't been received yet. Behavioral analysis can be either beneficial or detrimental, depending on who the recipients of said analysis are. Could you imagine the number of "tips" they would get from a generalized profile of a case that has received global coverage (and sleuthing)?

My opinion.

The white Elantra sedan is a generic net for this case, perhaps not even a Elantra but similar car from another brand.

Could the occupant of knowledge to the case be an out of place cell phone, pinging that does not match an alibi?

Trying to add new thought here as this is as close to caught up as ever (pretty much my WS experience).

Chief Fry has grown on me and seems much more relaxed in most recent clip. Hope he knows something not yet shared with the public. I actually think Moscow PD et al (except perhaps the coroner) has performed well considering how complex the solution may be.

 

[NCgardener]

The house is actually in a near-perfect location for a serial killer to stalk and subsequently choose how and when to act. The elevated parking lot behind the home had minimal if any lighting and a nefarious someone could sit there for hours on a weekend night unnoticed while looking into the back of the home, watching, and waiting for the right moment. Then he just has to walk down the hill (under cover from thick brush), walk in, do the deed, walk out, walk up hill, get in car, leave.

My opinion.

I'm still reading, but I have to say YES!!

I just don't think the house is a coincidence or side point. It's nearly perfect for someone looking to gain entry at night and do something to the inhabitants.

 

[Ceska]

I tend to agree about the white Elantra being long gone/disposed of. With no updates, no new developments, no murder weapon found, and all of the people who had been in and out of that house... that house being party central (a DNA nightmare).... and who knows who had been in there that morning when the other two roommates called others before the police arrived (the other people police had talked to on the phone)... I tend to think this will not be solved any time soon.

 

[gliving]

I mentioned the sexual element as a difference. You can see the similarities and differences for yourself, I think. Which is why I said "parallel" rather than "similar."

I can't find many home invasion knife murders, period. Much less a mass murder (and the one I quoted might have had an intended 3 victims, but mercifully only 2 were killed).

SMB

When I do an advanced google search using the phrase "multiple people were stabbed in their home" - minus the word "Moscow", I get numerous returns. I haven't read all the returns but the most common motive seems to be domestic dispute. I'm not surprised.

multiple people were stabbed in their home -moscow - Google Search

www.google.com

 

[hopewell]

The white Elantra sedan is a generic net for this case, perhaps not even a Elantra but similar car from another brand.

Disagree. It's a specific ask by law enforcement, down to the year and color. The car matters a lot. So much so that LE risked putting it out there publicly. I totally get that it doesn't fit a lot of folks' narratives, and it is therefore minimized and/or discounted entirely, but in actuality it is pretty much the only solid lead LE has disclosed (and rather explicitly).

My opinion.

 

[Tillicum]

Anyone familiar with Ben and Erika Sifrit, the "Thrill Kill Couple"? They used a gun in their murders but it's clear that some killers enjoy killing together. I still think it's possible there was more than one perp involved in these murders.

 

[eloquence]

I must admit, early on I did not feel this had anything to do with drugs or as far as a deal gone bad or something like that. Having said that. This was a party house BIG TIME!!!! IMO there was a lot of extra stuff going on in that house. Every one of those police cam videos has people coming to the door that look the part. These kids never deserved what happened to them but I promise you there have been some real shady people in that house over these last few years. This still feels like someone real close to the victims. I know we can't sleuth them but don't kid yourself. IMO many of their friends were not good people.

I disagree fully on this... Those look like normal frat brothers for me. I'm sure they had the occasional weed joint and certainly some underage drinking, maybe a few of them did "party" stuff like cocaine as many kids do in college, but I really don't get "real shady" from any of the people in their circle or the police cam videos. The media is acting like they had this huge, wild party, project X style - seems like 10-20 people there, music clearly on too loud but that is a normal college pregame. I don't see anyone outside of a normal greek life college student.

 

[Madeleine74]

I won't be surprised if the culprit(s) are from the frat across the way. <modsnip: no source link>

I don't think these murders were random at all. Whoever did the killing meant to do it, meant to eliminate one or more of the people in the house. I also think it's likely at least 1 or more were collateral damage and were not the intended targets.

 

[rizzo0904]

I don't think this has to do with drugs. Could be jealousy? Could be over money, but haven't seen anything to lean that way. Could be a person who vehemently disagrees with the lifestyle they live? Could be someone that was told NO and wasn't able to accept that? Any way, I think it's a white male in his mid to late 20s.

 

[JohnBull]

But 4 times? All 4, in at least semi dark rooms, with possibly one of each pair semi-awakened by what had happened to their sleeping partner?

I think it would be possible to stab two sleeping people very quickly and do it in such a way that neither one would be able to mount an effective response.

 

[Montecore1]

Aren't legal repaints recorded against the VIN?

In my little legal world, getting plate numbers (hence the VIN) would show the repaint.

Im in the auto biz and have I never hear of that, I know for a fact that is not the case in Texas. Now with that being said about complete paint jobs an accident is certainly tagged to the VIN

 

[layer]

I think it would be possible to stab two sleeping people very quickly and do it in such a way that neither one would be able to mount an effective response.

I don't recognize that quote, but I do agree with you.
Seriously, I'm hoping they were all sleeping like rocks and never knew what hit them.

 

[layer]

Im in the auto biz and have never hear of that, I know for a fact that at least that is not the case in Texas. Now with that being said about complete paint jobs an accident and some scheduled dealer maintenance is certainly tagged to the VIN

It's news to me. To whom would you even report that, the DMV?

 

[chrisinmd]

I don't think this has to do with drugs. Could be jealousy? Could be over money, but haven't seen anything to lean that way. Could be a person who vehemently disagrees with the lifestyle they live? Could be someone that was told NO and wasn't able to accept that? Any way, I think it's a white male in his mid to late 20s.

What about random serial killer or thrill killer they has never meant before? Similar to Ted Bundy murdering those coeds in Florida

 

[layer]

I don't think this has to do with drugs. Could be jealousy? Could be over money, but haven't seen anything to lean that way. Could be a person who vehemently disagrees with the lifestyle they live? Could be someone that was told NO and wasn't able to accept that? Any way, I think it's a white male in his mid to late 20s.

If it's lifestyle that whole town is in jeopardy.

 

[femto]

The house is actually in a near-perfect location for a serial killer to stalk and subsequently choose how and when to act. The elevated parking lot behind the home had minimal if any lighting and a nefarious someone could sit there for hours on a weekend night unnoticed while looking into the back of the home, watching, and waiting for the right moment. Then he just has to walk down the hill (under cover from thick brush), walk in, do the deed, walk out, walk up hill, get in car, leave.

My opinion.

A perfect house for an attack would be a house that is single story, gives an easy opportunity for the killer to escape if something goes wrong, has multiple escape routes, preferably near canals or creeks or main roads that will allow the killer to easily blend after an attack. This house is the opposite of that. For one, you have only two escape routes, one of which is filled with cameras and I would imagine the route through the back bushes and Walenta Dr is also camera friendly given the amount of houses there. You need to know where specifically you are going not to get caught. It'd be pretty weird being a car or person passing through there at 4:00 in the morning and you'd be the first suspect if you're spotted. And in a small town such as Moscow it wouldn't be that difficult to find you. Also, I would imagine that parking at Walenta Dr would raise quite a few eyebrows from people passing through there and you'd have to be incredibly lucky not to have someone notice or pass through there while you're doing your crime.

The parking behind the house is also an awfully risky spot, albeit it does have a nice vantage point of the house. The reason for that is that cars come and go from there constantly. It is situated next to the apartments in an overall a lively area and active college party scene. You can be easily spotted by someone coming with his headlights on. Then you'd have to assume that a person simply parking his car in Walenta Dr would stand out to others and he'd have to be enormously lucky not have someone pass through there and notice. If he instead decides to pass through Taylor Ave up to King Road then that's even worse since it's even easier to spot you from there. You're going to be walking/driving past a minefield of cameras up to the house.

The house itself is problematic - multiple stories, built like a maze, people living on all three floors, multiple doors and bedrooms on every floor. You kinda have to know what you're doing and where you are because you'd be putting yourself in huge danger at any moment you're in that house. And finally - if something goes on, whether during the attack or someone hears something, the killer is virtually screwed. There's no escape from that area.

That was probably near the TOP of LE's list and no doubt they have interviewed/vetted ALL neighbors within ear shot of the house. Any neighbors who would be bold enough to kill like this, would be putting themselves in the cross hairs of intense LE scrutiny 100%. I suspect LE is still actively exploring this angle at the present time. My personal take on this>>> An irate neighbor wouldn't attempt a bloody killing like this...just FAR TOO RISKY and BRUTAL. There are a myriad of other *solutions* to solve a problem a like this ...I need not elaborate. MOO

I disagree. How many neighbors are in that area? Hundreds? Police do not have time to comb through them, at least not in any deep capacity. It would allow the killer to know the victims, possibly even be acquainted with them, but not be under any severe scrutiny from the police. It also allows him the opportunity to know the area itself, have intimate knowledge of the victim's movements and to have a very easy escape route back to his home. And unless you have footage that would put the perp at the crime scene around that hour, what do you have on him? And even then, so what? He lives in that area. It's the perfect excuse.

Agreed. IMO the police are just interested in the occupants, not the car. I don't think they have ever specifically said they want the car, just tips about who was in it. It could be they even know the location of the car itself, maybe even know the owner, but it was used by someone else that night and nobody is saying who. I really don't know though, just speculating .

Well, they want the car because they don't know who the occupants are, that's the problem. For all we know, they might have already identified the car without even realizing it. Unless you have something to distinguish that specific Elantra from others or the suspect's face or general build, it would be impossible to actually tell whether that is the killer's car or some random civilian. At this point the Elantra itself as evidence might be useless. It might be helpful to narrow down the suspect list if they are 100% convinced it is the killer,'s but the car as evidence of itself is pointless.

So I keep trying to find cases that parallel our case here, and the only one that comes close is that of the Grangegorman Killings. Of course, there are big differences, too, but it's a solo perp (Mark Nash) who murdered 2 and left 1 alive by knifing in this small Irish village. So not a quadruple murder, but a double murder and possible intent to kill everyone in the house. Some sexual motivations, too. But what I found interesting is that, after he killed again:



Whew. So this guy went and blended in again (until he didn't and was finally caught after another set of horrific murders, also with a knife).

I am not sure what to call Nash but PsychoKiller comes to mind (he was convicted). Here's the wiki:

Grangegorman killings - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I think the closest would be the Setagaya family murders and the Keddie Murders. Unfortunately, the former hasn't been solved, but imo I'm of the belief that it was one of these skateboarders Setagaya's family had beef with. With the Keddie Murders I think it is pretty obvious it was the neighbor and should have been solved if not for the absolute shocking state of police incompetency and possibly corruption.