ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 6

[Angleterre]

OK now with the newly released info from tonight, a new thought entered my mind and made me remember something from my own college years. I'm wondering what kind of locks are on the bedrooms in this house. For instance, there's a kind of lock where, when inside the room, you twist it on the knob, then leave and close the door and you were able to lock it from the inside. So it could be possible the killer locked all or some of the victims inside their bedrooms (why? not sure, maybe to delay them being found).

So here is what happened once in my own college experience while living in the dorms. A friend on our floor was drinking excessively the night before. The next morning/late morning, a mutual friend needed to get something from them and is unable to rouse them from pounding on the door and calling their phone. Multiple of us shouted their name, pounded, and nothing. We got so worried that they died from alcohol poisoning, we did call campus police who was able to get in their room. They were thankfully alive and just in a super deep sleep.

Now sadly these victims were not just in a deep sleep. But could the roommates have found it odd the others in the house weren't up yet at near noon so they knocked on one of their doors and nothing. Then tried calling them and could hear their phone ringing in their bedroom with no answer. So they start to get a bit freaked and call friends over and have no idea what really lay on the other side of that door.

Yes this is very plausible

 

[WinnC]

OK now with the newly released info from tonight, a new thought entered my mind and made me remember something from my own college years. I'm wondering what kind of locks are on the bedrooms in this house. For instance, there's a kind of lock where, when inside the room, you twist it on the knob, then leave and close the door and you were able to lock it from the inside. So it could be possible the killer locked all or some of the victims inside their bedrooms (why? not sure, maybe to delay them being found).

So here is what happened once in my own college experience while living in the dorms. A friend on our floor was drinking excessively the night before. The next morning/late morning, a mutual friend needed to get something from them and is unable to rouse them from pounding on the door and calling their phone. Multiple of us shouted their name, pounded, and nothing. We got so worried that they died from alcohol poisoning, we did call campus police who was able to get in their room. They were thankfully alive and just in a super deep sleep.

Now sadly these victims were not just in a deep sleep. But could the roommates have found it odd the others in the house weren't up yet at near noon so they knocked on one of their doors and nothing. Then tried calling them and could hear their phone ringing in their bedroom with no answer. So they start to get a bit freaked and call friends over and have no idea what really lay on the other side of that door.

My thoughts exactly!

 

[WingsOverTX]

This seems like a direct question and the answer seems evasive. I acknowledge it could just be my interpretation of the words and body language

Reporter - The male subject whom the women called - Has he been ruled out as a suspect or person of interest?

Chief - Everything that we have taken from those calls we have followed up on, we've cleared and we believe that there's no connection there.

No mention of clearing the subject, just what they have taken from the calls. That is what I lock in on. He definitively said the 911 caller was not the killer. Why not here?

RBBM in red
He says there is no connection there. My interpretation is that clears the person Kaylee & Madison called a total of 10 times.

JMHO

 

[ccpittma]

Moscow Homicide Update
November 20, 2022

• Detectives are releasing that on the morning of November 13th, the surviving roommates summoned friends to the residence because they believed one of the second-floor victims had passed out and was not waking up. At 11:58 a.m., a 911 call requested aid for an unconscious person. The call originated from inside the residence on one of the surviving roommates’ cell phone. Multiple people talked with the 911 dispatcher before a Moscow Police officer arrived at the location. Officers entered the residence and found the four victims on the second and third floors.

So “unconscious” wasn’t just how 911 dispatch coded the call, interesting. Also, if it was a victim on the second floor the call was made in regards to, that would mean Ethan or Xana right? Who were according to Ethan’s parents found in a room together. This makes even less sense overall now.

 

[Leve]

That makes me think they had to be in separate rooms. Maybe not initially when the attack happened, maybe one tried to crawl out of the bedroom and passed away in another room.

This is what I'm thinking too. And if they crawled out of the bedroom the roommates would have found him on his stomache (hiding his wounds).

If you came up on someone laying on their stomache in the middle of the floor, you would call their name, maybe even poke them a bit, and watch to see if they are breathing. I don't think you would roll them over ect....

 

[MntnHiker]

I should be in bed by now (2.58 am atm in Scotland where I am currently attending university), but before I do, one thing I can't get out of my head, the one I mentioned on my previous post: the phone call was made at 1.58 am. So, X&E and - separately - M&K had arrived at the flat at 1.45 am. That means within a 13-minute timeframe the killer, on a frenzy, stabbed four people to death and within that same timeframe the phone call had already been lodged and someone reported seeing an unconscious person, how is this possible?

What bothers me about this is that for a complete stranger who had never been inside this 3-floor house it would take at least a couple of minutes to figure out where to go, which doors were those to the bedrooms, double-check nobody was in the bathroom or the living room or the kitchen getting a snack, etc, especially if he/she already had a target in mind. All while being in a place pitch dark and trying not to make any noise. It has been reported one or more of the victims had defensive wounds, so those killings would have taken longer than those in which the victim/s were in a deep sleep and had no time to react and try to defend themselves.
Then there is E. If the killer did not know he was there, the element of surprise of finding a tall, strong male in the house would have caught him/her off guard and that would have added more time to his/her horrible operation.
13 minutes for four killings, surviving roommates woken up, phone call placed, and killer out of the door unseen by neighbours or anyone in the street? This timeframe does not add up for me at all.

RSBM RBBM

The 911 call was not made until 11:58 AM or almost noon, so about 7-9 hours after the time the murders happened according to LE.

 

[Warwick7]

As I said, my suspicion is he was out in the hallway. Thus why LE wouldn't tell us today "where" on the 2nd and 3rd floor victims were located.

Notice how the boldened is written:

"Detectives are releasing that on the morning of November 13th, the surviving roommates summoned friends to the residence because they believed "one" of the second-floor victims had passed out and was not waking up.”

He wasn't in bed next to his girlfriend.

Did he wake up and get a drink, go for a pee, chase someone, chased by someone, stumbled upon someone coming in....?

 

[KPO]

This seems like a direct question and the answer seems evasive. I acknowledge it could just be my interpretation of the words and body language

Reporter - The male subject whom the women called - Has he been ruled out as a suspect or person of interest?

Chief - Everything that we have taken from those calls we have followed up on, we've cleared and we believe that there's no connection there.

No mention of clearing the subject, just what they have taken from the calls. That is what I lock in on. He definitively said the 911 caller was not the killer. Why not here?

It was a bit evasive. But the other question was is the 911 caller a suspect. This question was lengthier about the calls and had he been ruled out as a suspect or POI. It was a broader question so I didn't read into it like many did.

IMO, the Chief should be expecting certain questions and have ready-to-go answers...like how an attorney preps their clients before court. The Chief did not appear to have answers prepared for the Q&A. Didn't he seem to be coming up with the answers as he went along?

 

[Angleterre]

I should be in bed by now (2.58 am atm in Scotland where I am currently attending university), but before I do, one thing I can't get out of my head, the one I mentioned on my previous post: the phone call was made at 1.58 am. So, X&E and - separately - M&K had arrived at the flat at 1.45 am. That means within a 13-minute timeframe the killer, on a frenzy, stabbed four people to death and within that same timeframe the phone call had already been lodged and someone reported seeing an unconscious person, how is this possible?

What bothers me about this is that for a complete stranger who had never been inside this 3-floor house it would take at least a couple of minutes to figure out where to go, which doors were those to the bedrooms, double-check nobody was in the bathroom or the living room or the kitchen getting a snack, etc, especially if he/she already had a target in mind. All while being in a place pitch dark and trying not to make any noise. It has been reported one or more of the victims had defensive wounds, so those killings would have taken longer than those in which the victim/s were in a deep sleep and had no time to react and try to defend themselves.
Then there is E. If the killer did not know he was there, the element of surprise of finding a tall, strong male in the house would have caught him/her off guard and that would have added more time to his/her horrible operation.
13 minutes for four killings, surviving roommates woken up, phone call placed, and killer out of the door unseen by neighbours or anyone in the street? This timeframe does not add up for me at all.

Second thing that bothers me - X&E and also M&K arrived at 1.45 am - mere coincidence or were they ''summoned'' there by a person (I don't mean the surviving roommates, but someone else - the killer) with the excuse to chat about something and this was a trap? That was an initial theory in my head, but then this does not add up either as police have reported there were all asleep at the time of the attack, so that means the moment they got in, everybody got into bed fairly quickly and fell asleep.

I just don't see how this can have been perpetrated by someone who did not have at least a basic knowledge of the layout of the house. Uhm... I know my post does not add anything of value, just thinking out aloud. All of the above MOO, of course. Goodnight, fellow sleuths.

The phone call about the unconscious person was made around noon later that day I believe, correct me if I’m wrong?
I too am in the U.K. and need sleep as it’s 303am now
Goodnight

 

[Kalia]

This is very typical of this age group and forgive me for saying this but it is typical of this snapchat and Instagram age. These kids don’t know what’s real. They live in a somewhat fake digital age. I’m not shocked they didn’t realize what was occurring and they didn’t understand the levity of what they were seeing as they see so many unreal stuff on social media. It probably didn’t register from all the fake things they see all the time.

Young people these days do know how to call 911 and hand over the reins when they encounter a situation out of their depth, BUT they like to phone a friend first and make absolutely sure before they do call. Otherwise, to them, getting 911 involved would be more trouble than it's worth, not to mention a waste of a perfectly good Sunday. Also, at age 21, death is the furthest thing from your mind. You know it happens but you never think it would happen to you. So I don't think it's strange that there was a little delay before the services were called.

 

[WingsOverTX]

My only

My theories only come from being a Detective Chief Inspector and Accredited SIO ( senior investigative officer ) who has led many murder enquiries with my teams of Detectives so ignore my useless speculation.
You will get actual facts from LE when they choose to release them.
It was as stated JMOO
as this post is JMOO

Right on! I'm not questioning you, just expressing my thoughts. Apologies if my response seemed otherwise.

 

[L.laricina]

I should be in bed by now (2.58 am atm in Scotland where I am currently attending university), but before I do, one thing I can't get out of my head, the one I mentioned on my previous post: the phone call was made at 1.58 am. So, X&E and - separately - M&K had arrived at the flat at 1.45 am. That means within a 13-minute timeframe the killer, on a frenzy, stabbed four people to death and within that same timeframe the phone call had already been lodged and someone reported seeing an unconscious person, how is this possible?

What bothers me about this is that for a complete stranger who had never been inside this 3-floor house it would take at least a couple of minutes to figure out where to go, which doors were those to the bedrooms, double-check nobody was in the bathroom or the living room or the kitchen getting a snack, etc, especially if he/she already had a target in mind. All while being in a place pitch dark and trying not to make any noise. It has been reported one or more of the victims had defensive wounds, so those killings would have taken longer than those in which the victim/s were in a deep sleep and had no time to react and try to defend themselves.
Then there is E. If the killer did not know he was there, the element of surprise of finding a tall, strong male in the house would have caught him/her off guard and that would have added more time to his/her horrible operation.
13 minutes for four killings, surviving roommates woken up, phone call placed, and killer out of the door unseen by neighbours or anyone in the street? This timeframe does not add up for me at all.

Second thing that bothers me - X&E and also M&K arrived at 1.45 am - mere coincidence or were they ''summoned'' there by a person (I don't mean the surviving roommates, but someone else - the killer) with the excuse to chat about something and this was a trap? That was an initial theory in my head, but then this does not add up either as police have reported there were all asleep at the time of the attack, so that means the moment they got in, everybody got into bed fairly quickly and fell asleep.

I just don't see how this can have been perpetrated by someone who did not have at least a basic knowledge of the layout of the house. Uhm... I know my post does not add anything of value, just thinking out aloud. All of the above MOO, of course. Goodnight, fellow sleuths.

I think the killer came in after everyone was asleep and had the time, even given the darkness and unfamiliarity with the layout, to carry this out. The killer also had the poise and confidence to take the time. Even if some of the victims woke up swinging, the fatal wound was probably already inflicted, and they were probably largely silent and in shock.

 

[Butterbean2020]

I know LE say they believe the murders were targeted. I guess now I am wondering what targeted really means.
At first I thought that meant that the victims were in some way associated with the sp, but now realize that it’s more complicated than that.

 

[yuri1978]

The phone call about the unconscious person was made around noon later that day I believe, correct me if I’m wrong?
I too am in the U.K. and need sleep as it’s 303am now
Goodnight

Thank you Angleterre for letting me know the phone call was at noon the following day, I should have heard that on the presser. Good night!

 

[chprs]

Has LE said specifically that they were killed in their beds or is this an assumption based off LE saying that they were asleep?

If it's the latter then I think that it could easily be taken as LE saying the attack begun while all of the victims were asleep, to the best of their knowledge anyway.

 

[Dutch77]

It was a bit evasive. But the other question was is the 911 caller a suspect. This question was lengthier about the calls and had he been ruled out as a suspect or POI. It was a broader question so I didn't read into it like many did.

IMO, the Chief should be expecting certain questions and have ready-to-go answers...like how an attorney preps their clients before court. The Chief did not appear to have answers prepared for the Q&A. Didn't he seem to be coming up with the answers as he went along?

I found this odd also, all of the questions were what was to be expected to ask and none were worded in a tricky way.

 

[Trocroc9]

My suspicion is he was out in the hallway. Thus why LE wouldn't tell us today "where" on the 2nd and 3rd floor victims were located.

Did he wake up and get a drink, chase someone, chased by someone, stumbled upon someone coming in....?

My initial thought is he heard something and investigated. He tried to fight. His girlfriend Xana knew and was awakened that’s why she tried to fight and had defensive wounds. I think Xana and Ethan were secondary murders. Meaning the perp had already killed Maddie and Kaylee and Ethan and Xana interfered and the perp didn’t want witnesses.

 

[Warwick7]

Entirely possible although I have read a Fox news article where the detective said it was ‘sloppy’ with a lot of forensic evidence left behind.

let me try and find that article although it wasn’t new so has probably been posted already as I’m just looking at this case properly for the first time tonight so I’m a week behind

ALL MOO

Remember how Jodi Arias had sliced her hand with the wet blood covered knife?

No doubt this killer was sloppy and left a ton of forensic evidence behind.

 

[ccpittma]

My suspicion is he was out in the hallway. Thus why LE wouldn't tell us today "where" on the 2nd and 3rd floor victims were located.

Did he wake up and get a drink, chase someone, chased by someone, stumbled upon someone coming in....?

From the first day it was in my mind Ethan was found in a common area, leading to the unconscious call to 911, based on what have been previously said and linked here. Ethan’s mom said in an interview that X and E were in the room together. That statement contradicts the notion he would have been found alone elsewhere in the house. Where did I read or hear they were all found in bed? I recall this being said, but can’t place it. If they were indeed all found it bed, it becomes more contradictory to the initial 911 call.

 

[yuri1978]

I think the killer came in after everyone was asleep and had the time, even given the darkness and unfamiliarity with the layout, to carry this out. The killer also had the poise and confidence to take the time. Even if some of the victims woke up swinging, the fatal wound was probably already inflicted, and they were probably largely silent and in shock.

Thanks for your observations, L. laricina. This makes me think the killer might be someone who has done this before, not to this extent - quadruple murder - but similar. I just don't see someone inexperienced being able to do this in 13 minutes' time and leave undetected and without committing serious mistakes in terms of leaving traces, etc. This case is so puzzling to me. I am not surprised it is taking a bit to get resolved.